13 Replies Latest reply on Nov 17, 2017 3:09 PM by D Fosse

    Windows photo viewer

    BlessedJohn Level 1

      Since updating from PS 2017 to 2018 saved jpeg and save for web jpeg (Convert to sRGB is checked) files are much,much darker when they open in Windows Photo Viewer.

      Is there a setting in 'Edit' under 'Preferences' or 'Colour Settings' that needs changing?

       

      Thank you.

       

      Windows 7 HP

      Asus PA 279 (profiled)

      ColorMunki Photo

        • 1. Re: Windows photo viewer
          D Fosse Adobe Community Professional & MVP

          The jpeg itself can't be different. Are you embedding the profile? Converting alone isn't enough with Save For Web, you also need to check "embed profile" (don't get me started on why this isn't checked by default...)

           

          The Windows 7 Photo Viewer is fully color managed and should always display identically to Photoshop - as long as the file has an embedded profile.

           

          If they are still different, there is a problem with the display profile or the video driver.

          1 person found this helpful
          • 2. Re: Windows photo viewer
            BlessedJohn Level 1

            Thank you for your reply. On the basis of what you have written there would appear to be a problem with the video driver because:

            • I've emailed as well as copying files to a flash drive and they open without the aberration on another PC.
            • The aberration occurs on an extended display (also an Asus PA 279) used in conjunction or independently.

            I've checked for driver updates for both the graphics card (GeForce GTX 750) and the monitors. Is there anything else you could suggest perhaps.

             

            Thank you.

            • 3. Re: Windows photo viewer
              cyberwasp Level 2

              I've had the same problem, it's not PS or drivers. Photo viewer in windows 10 does this, switch to a different viewer and you'll see!!

              • 4. Re: Windows photo viewer
                BlessedJohn Level 1

                Oh well done our team!!  Downloaded Irfanview and it works a treat. i'll work out how to set it to open by default later.

                 

                Thank you so much for the help.

                • 5. Re: Windows photo viewer
                  D Fosse Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                  That means it's probably the monitor profile. Irfanview is not color managed and does not use the monitor profile at all. IOW it solves nothing, the problem is still there.

                   

                  If you post a side by side screenshot it will be easier to tell.

                   

                  BTW the Windows 10 "Photos" app is not color managed either. But this is Windows 7 Photo Viewer, which is.

                  • 6. Re: Windows photo viewer
                    cyberwasp Level 2

                    It's not the profile. I calibrate my monitor weekly and use several different viewers . I was told the windows photo viewer is back from windows 7 and doesn't work well in the latest windows and does not work with ICC profiles well.

                    • 7. Re: Windows photo viewer
                      D Fosse Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                      This isn't about the calibration. It's about the profile. Those two are different things.

                       

                      The profile does not work globally. It's a detailed description of the monitor's response in its calibrated state, but only some applications actually use it to display an image. A defective profile often affects different color managed applications differently.

                       

                      The mere fact that Photoshop and Windows 7 Photo Viewer does not display identically, pretty much proves a defective profile.

                      • 8. Re: Windows photo viewer
                        BlessedJohn Level 1

                        Just when you think..............!!!!

                         

                        What's now puzzling is why does the aberration occur across both monitors and why would the profile of either suddenly change (other than updating PS that is).

                        • 9. Re: Windows photo viewer
                          BlessedJohn Level 1

                          OK. I've been viewing emails out of context with the full discussion. I can now understand the difference. I'll Google profiling, but some pointers in the right direction would be appreciated.

                           

                          Thank you once again.

                          • 10. Re: Windows photo viewer
                            cyberwasp Level 2

                            What you say is partially true. I'm running 2 NEC multisync  32" monitors and I just updated both profiles. However, I changed one back to the previously installed profile and the calibration changes as confirm with my x-rite i1 display pro. So there has to be some connection.

                            • 11. Re: Windows photo viewer
                              D Fosse Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                              Here's the thing: The profile describes the monitor in it calibrated state. That's the key to the whole thing.

                               

                              Actually, the profile describes the monitor in its current state, whether calibrated or not. But since a profile is normally written by a calibrator, a calibration has usually preceded it.

                               

                              The point is that a profile doesn't do anything. It's just a description of a color space, just like the Adobe RGB.icc profile is a description of the Adobe RGB color space. The profile doesn't adjust anything. The application's color management engine does that, based on the description. The profile is loaded by the application at startup.

                               

                              The profile is very sophisticated. It accounts for irregularities in the tone response curve, and it describes the exact position of the three primaries. This is what determines how individual colors are reproduced - how saturated, how orangeish or magentaish a red color reproduces.

                               

                              A calibration is a much simpler thing, not very sophisticated at all. It basically adjusts the white point, and then aligns R=G=B relative to that white point. If it's a good calibrator it can also define a black point. It also sets a general tone response curve (gamma) - but this will be remapped by the profile and "invisible" in a color managed environment, where the end result is always fully linear. Without color management, monitor gamma has to cancel out gamma encoding in the file.

                               

                              In short - the profile has a much higher precision level than the calibration.

                               

                              Since the profile has to reflect actual monitor behavior, that means any change in monitor response invalidates the profile, and you have to make a new one. That's why it's a good idea to have a calibrator. It's not a one-time thing, you need to do it again from time to time.

                              • 12. Re: Windows photo viewer
                                cyberwasp Level 2

                                I calibrate my monitors every week as I work on images from a observatory and a couple of Photographers. The company also send a rep every so often to validate my calibrations.

                                • 13. Re: Windows photo viewer
                                  D Fosse Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                  cyberwasp  wrote

                                   

                                  However, I changed one back to the previously installed profile and the calibration changes as confirm with my x-rite i1 display pro.

                                  One thing I should have mentioned earlier: The calibration tables are often stored inside the profile. This is just for convenience, to ensure that one follows the other. The profile describes that particular calibrated state, so it makes sense to do it this way.

                                   

                                  This only applies for monitors where the calibration is done in the video card. In high-end units the calibration is usually done in the monitor's internal processor, and then the two, calibration and profiling, are entirely separate.

                                   

                                  It also makes sense to do calibration and profiling in one seamless operation. They are both based on measuring the monitor's response, so no reason not to do them in one go.

                                   

                                  The problem with all this, of course, is that it obscures what's really going on. For practical purposes it makes sense, but conceptually it mixes everything together in one big pot where it's not obvious what the ingredients are. IOW, this causes a heck of a lot of confusion.