1 2 Previous Next 40 Replies Latest reply on Dec 7, 2017 9:29 AM by littleprint

    Masking to Gray Issues

    littleprint Level 1

      I recently updated from Indesign CC2017 to CC2018, and have been having issues with color shifting. As my work is often color critical, this can't be happening! Specifically, I notice that it will shift anything with a white mask behind it to an off gray on export to Adobe Acrobat. Opening the file from Acrobat to Illustrator seems to make the gray disappear, but my customers can't proof their work in Illustrator! I need to fix this problem, I have checked as many color options as possible, however, it doesn't seem to be a color issue.

       

      This is not only on export, either. Any image placed in Indesign shifts to a gray from white, making my screen image of the items look muddy and off. This happens more often when using filters, but can make it difficult to adjust layouts, especially ones that have GRAY in them! PLEASE HELP!!!

        • 1. Re: Masking to Gray Issues
          rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

          Some screen captures of the problem would help. Select the problem object and show you Swatches and Color Panels.

           

          Do you have Proof Colors turned off? What is the color definition and color mode of your [Paper] swatch?

          1 person found this helpful
          • 2. Re: Masking to Gray Issues
            littleprint Level 1

            This is what it looks like in Indesign when I try to do any transparency adjustments at all, or filters of any kind.Screen Shot 2017-12-06 at 8.24.14 AM.png

            This is how it should look.

            Screen Shot 2017-12-06 at 8.23.42 AM.png

            This is how another file looks, which is full vecor with screens and masks:

            Screen Shot 2017-12-06 at 8.23.02 AM.png

            And this his how it exports to an Adobe PDF File:

            Screen Shot 2017-12-06 at 8.22.49 AM.png

            • 3. Re: Masking to Gray Issues
              littleprint Level 1

              I should note that aside from minor adjustments while printing, leaving my color settings and everything else on the default standards works best with the printers I am using, as most adjustments are made to the graphics and images directly and tested with a print before sending to production.

              • 4. Re: Masking to Gray Issues
                littleprint Level 1

                Another Sample: Should look like this:Screen Shot 2017-12-06 at 8.36.08 AM.png

                PDF's Like This:

                Screen Shot 2017-12-06 at 8.36.32 AM.png

                • 5. Re: Masking to Gray Issues
                  BobLevine MVP & Adobe Community Professional

                  How are you creating these PDFs?

                  • 6. Re: Masking to Gray Issues
                    Bill Silbert Adobe Community Professional

                    Check to make sure that your color settings for Illustrator, Photoshop and InDesign all match exactly. I recently had a similar problem between Photoshop and InDesign with CMYK images. I had recently been updated to CC 2018 on my work computer through my company's specialized install (which does not use the desktop app). It turned out that the default color settings for Photoshop were "US Newsprint (SNAP 2007)" while my InDesign was the US default of "U.S. Web Coated (SWOP) v2". The color shift for imported raster images between the two programs was as dramatic as what you've shown. Switching the Photoshop to the "North America General Purpose 2" settings fixed the problem. I later was able to install the 19.0.1 Photoshop update which also had fixed the problem.

                    • 7. Re: Masking to Gray Issues
                      rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                      littleprint  wrote

                       

                      This is how another file looks, which is full vecor with screens and masks:

                       

                      And this his how it exports to an Adobe PDF File:

                      Screen Shot 2017-12-06 at 8.22.49 AM.png

                       

                      From your screen capture looks like you are viewing in a browser (Safari)?

                       

                      Does it look that way in AcrobatPro?

                       

                      Are you using spot colors?

                      • 8. Re: Masking to Gray Issues
                        littleprint Level 1

                        This screen shot is from Acrobat Pro (note the tools at the bottom of the screen). I'm using White, and Black, not spot. Default Swatches on ALL, as previously stated.

                        • 9. Re: Masking to Gray Issues
                          littleprint Level 1

                          All my color settings match exactly. They must have defaulted to the general purpose 2 that you're suggesting, because I have never changed them. This has caused problems for me in the past, so since my printing system is so accurate with the defaults in my program, I chose to not mess with a thing that isn't broken.

                          • 10. Re: Masking to Gray Issues
                            littleprint Level 1

                            These pdfs were "Export to PDF" from Indesign. Is there another way I should be making them that would retain accuracy?

                            • 11. Re: Masking to Gray Issues
                              rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                              This screen shot is from Acrobat Pro

                              Is it the latest version—AcrobatPro DC?

                               

                              Can you share a PDF?

                               

                              The gray you are showing looks like a paper simulation (Simulate Paper Color), which you can get via Output Preview, but that should apply to all of the white areas.

                               

                              Screen Shot 2017-12-06 at 11.49.55 AM.png

                              • 12. Re: Masking to Gray Issues
                                littleprint Level 1

                                At the risk of sounding stupid: How would I do that, exactly? There is no option available to share a PDF file.

                                • 13. Re: Masking to Gray Issues
                                  littleprint Level 1

                                  And also, if that should apply to "all the white areas" as you say, then why is it only applying to everything that has a white fill, or white stroke, and not the whole WHITE page? (this would be the case with the Lularoe sample. It looks like a white page, but the parts that turned gray actually have a white fill, or a white stroke surrounding them) It's not an arbitrary "overall" application. It's applying it to EVERY spot of white COLOR located on the page.

                                  • 14. Re: Masking to Gray Issues
                                    rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                    Use a service like Dropbox.

                                     

                                    Your CC account also has a sharing service. In the CC application it's under assets. On OSX there should be a folder in your User folder named Creative Cloud Files. Copy the PDF into that folder then right-click it to get the cloud link address to share.

                                    • 16. Re: Masking to Gray Issues
                                      rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                      Sorry, I'm not getting download privileges on your link. Are you sure you made the access public?

                                      • 17. Re: Masking to Gray Issues
                                        littleprint Level 1

                                        fixed.

                                        • 18. Re: Masking to Gray Issues
                                          rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                          I don't see any problem viewing in AcrobatPro DC and the Output Preview numbers show all of the white areas as 0%.

                                           

                                          I do see the problem in Acrobat Reader and can't figure out why, but it's not an output problem at least according to AcrobatPro's object inspector. Try exporting using the PDF/X-1a preset that works for me.

                                           

                                          There is something odd about the vectors inside of the PDF. This is from Preview:

                                           

                                          Screen Shot 2017-12-06 at 5.49.52 PM.png

                                          • 19. Re: Masking to Gray Issues
                                            Laubender Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                            https://forums.adobe.com/people/rob+day  wrote

                                            … I do see the problem in Acrobat Reader and can't figure out why,…

                                            Hi Rob,

                                            confirmed.

                                            All areas colored with [Paper] are looking strange with Acrobat Reader:

                                             

                                            Millstone-KidsMenu-AdobeReaderView.png

                                             

                                            Here a view with Acrobat Pro DC where I used the Transparency Grid to discern "white areas" from "transparent ones":

                                             

                                            Millstone-KidsMenu-AcrobatProDCView-1.png

                                             

                                            "Simulate Paper Color":

                                            Millstone-KidsMenu-AcrobatProDCView-2.png

                                             

                                            "Simulate Paper Color" and "Set Page Background Color":

                                            Millstone-KidsMenu-AcrobatProDCView-3.png

                                             

                                            Hm…
                                            Inspected the PDF a bit more and found Absolute Colorimetric Rendering Intent.

                                            That could be the issue.

                                             

                                            Finally I fixed the issue with Acrobat Pro DC by using a single fixup named:
                                            "Set Rendering Intent to "Relative Colorimetric""

                                             

                                            StRenderingIntentToRelativeColorimetric.png

                                             

                                            The fixed PDF in Acrobat Reader:

                                             

                                            Millstone-KidsMenu-CONVERTED-2-AcrobatReaderView.png

                                             

                                            Regards,
                                            Uwe

                                            • 20. Re: Masking to Gray Issues
                                              Laubender Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                              Here a link to the fixed PDF:

                                              Dropbox - Millstone-KidsMenu-CONVERTED.pdf

                                               

                                              Next thing to do is to ask how Color Management is set up with Illustrator (the placed artwork is from AI) and InDesign.

                                              Do not use Absolute Colorimetric as rendering intent. Instead use Relative Colorimetric.

                                               

                                              Regards,
                                              Uwe

                                              1 person found this helpful
                                              • 21. Re: Masking to Gray Issues
                                                rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                Thanks Uwe. I've never noticed this before. And it happens even if I save the AI file with no embedded profile, which seems like a dangerous "feature". The current AI Color Setting's rendering intent always gets embedded, but I don't see a way to assign the rendering intent along with the profile, so the intent might change if the file got passed around.

                                                1 person found this helpful
                                                • 22. Re: Masking to Gray Issues
                                                  Laubender Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                  Hi Rob,

                                                   

                                                  are you talking about AI CC 2018 22.0 ?

                                                  Had no time to test something…

                                                   

                                                  Regards,

                                                  Uwe

                                                  • 23. Re: Masking to Gray Issues
                                                    littleprint Level 1

                                                    Well that tells me how to fix the wonky PDF's, but it still doesn't solve the problem of InDesign's color shift while I'm working on projects with complex layouts that use screens and gradients.....

                                                    • 24. Re: Masking to Gray Issues
                                                      littleprint Level 1

                                                      All color Management settings are the same in all three programs. I established this yesterday in previous comments. North American General Purpose 2, which is what it defaulted to when I updated the programs. I prefer NOT to mess with these settings (as I said Yesterday), because color between the programs and the various printers is hard enough to maintain without my programs adding more fuel to the fire.

                                                      • 25. Re: Masking to Gray Issues
                                                        littleprint Level 1

                                                        I will note, that this IS a problem, even though it's showing as 0%, my Prinect Plate Maker sees it as Gray, and outputs it as such. NOT good when going to plate!

                                                        • 26. Re: Masking to Gray Issues
                                                          rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                          Yes 2018

                                                          • 27. Re: Masking to Gray Issues
                                                            rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                            prefer NOT to mess with these settings (as I said Yesterday), because color between the programs and the various printers is hard enough to maintain without my programs adding more fuel to the fire.

                                                            Did you create and save the AI artwork?

                                                            • 28. Re: Masking to Gray Issues
                                                              littleprint Level 1

                                                              I did a reinstall this morning, deleted all of my preferences and settings, and the problem may have gone away. *fingers Crossed*

                                                              • 29. Re: Masking to Gray Issues
                                                                littleprint Level 1

                                                                Ok, so every file I had issues with yesterday I resaved today after a SECOND reinstall with full clear of preferences, and the issue has resolved itself!

                                                                • 30. Re: Masking to Gray Issues
                                                                  littleprint Level 1

                                                                  Yes, all artwork was created and saved by me. And all files were on/used by the same computer. Best guess is it was just a VERY obnoxious glitch with the settings, as it seems to have resolved after the second attempt to fully reinstall InDesign while deleting the preferences. *Not the first time this has been an issue on my machine*

                                                                  • 31. Re: Masking to Gray Issues
                                                                    Laubender Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                                    littleprint  wrote

                                                                     

                                                                    I will note, that this IS a problem, even though it's showing as 0%, my Prinect Plate Maker sees it as Gray, and outputs it as such. NOT good when going to plate!

                                                                    I'm speechless…

                                                                     

                                                                    At what point in your workflow do you use the Absolute Colorimetric rendering intent?

                                                                    "North American General Purpose 2" should not introduce this…
                                                                    As I can see from all my CS6 and CC installations Relative Colorimetric is used as default with this.

                                                                     

                                                                    Regards,
                                                                    Uwe

                                                                    • 32. Re: Masking to Gray Issues
                                                                      Laubender Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                                      https://forums.adobe.com/people/rob+day  wrote

                                                                      … The current AI Color Setting's rendering intent always gets embedded,…

                                                                      Thank you very much for this observation, Rob!
                                                                      Did not know this.

                                                                       

                                                                      Regards,
                                                                      Uwe

                                                                      • 33. Re: Masking to Gray Issues
                                                                        rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                                        I can replicate and confirm Uwe's rendering intent observation, so I don't think it will completely go away with a reinstall. Here I've saved your art twice out of AI 2018 with no embedded profile, but changing the Color Setting’s rendering intents before the save. Absolute on top:

                                                                         

                                                                        Screen Shot 2017-12-07 at 11.03.43 AM.png

                                                                         

                                                                        Turning on Overprint solves the preview problem for the absolute version—the title bar shows [Overprint Preview].

                                                                         

                                                                        Screen Shot 2017-12-07 at 11.03.57 AM.png

                                                                         

                                                                        Also the shade and color of the gray is dependent on the document's assigned CMYK profile. Legacy profiles like Photoshop 5 don't respond to the rendering intent

                                                                        • 34. Re: Masking to Gray Issues
                                                                          rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                                          will note, that this IS a problem, even though it's showing as 0%, my Prinect Plate Maker sees it as Gray, and outputs it as such. NOT good when going to plate!

                                                                          If you save as PDF/X-1a the rendering intent(s) will get stripped.

                                                                          1 person found this helpful
                                                                          • 35. Re: Masking to Gray Issues
                                                                            Laubender Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                                            https://forums.adobe.com/people/rob+day  wrote

                                                                             

                                                                            I can replicate and confirm Uwe's rendering intent observation, so I don't think it will completely go away with a reinstall. Here I've saved your art twice out of AI 2018 with no embedded profile, but changing the Color Setting’s rendering intents before the save. …

                                                                            I can confirm this.

                                                                            Just did a test exactly like that with my own artwork in Illustrator.

                                                                             

                                                                            Regards,
                                                                            Uwe

                                                                            • 36. Re: Masking to Gray Issues
                                                                              littleprint Level 1

                                                                              I honestly have no idea. I don't change those settings.

                                                                              • 37. Re: Masking to Gray Issues
                                                                                littleprint Level 1

                                                                                If it were being saved out of Illustrator, that would be fine. But It's Illustrator that I used to FIX the problem when the PDF did it. Illustrator was never giving me problems with color. Just exporting the PDF from InDesign.

                                                                                • 38. Re: Masking to Gray Issues
                                                                                  littleprint Level 1

                                                                                  Illustrator and Photoshop both have rendering intent set to RELATIVE, so this is not what happened. It happened between InDesign and Adobe, and I don't USE Adobe READER I use Adobe Acrobat PRO. I keep my programs updated, so there is no older version issues. All of the color settings match in Photoshop, Illustrator, Indesign, and I don't change special settings when exporting. I have found that going beyond the NORM that Adobe sets as the recommendations tends to cause major problems with my programs and so I avoid them. Thus the need for NO or FEW 'work arounds' when doing my projects. I just DO my projects and use the programs as intended, with their base setup. Saves headaches, and lots of time which would be wasted with all the little "Work arounds" and "Quick Fixes" that are being suggested. No offense, but they eat up Massive productivity time when simply going with standard settings and using the other machinery and programs we have to do their job is better.

                                                                                  • 39. Re: Masking to Gray Issues
                                                                                    rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                                                    If it were being saved out of Illustrator, that would be fine. But It's Illustrator that I used to FIX the problem when the PDF did it. Illustrator was never giving me problems with color. Just exporting the PDF from InDesign.

                                                                                    We are just letting you know we can replicate you problem with a file saved directly from Illustrator. So if it happens again, before resorting to a reinstall, you should try opening your Illustrator file, and do a Save As.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Here is a simple circle with a white fill created and saved from AI.

                                                                                    Screen Shot 2017-12-07 at 12.10.42 PM.png

                                                                                    Screen Shot 2017-12-07 at 12.10.50 PM.png

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