31 Replies Latest reply on Dec 14, 2017 2:16 AM by ricky336

    WRONG !!! [Forum etiquette]

    MichelBParis Adobe Community Professional & MVP

      WRONG !

       

      Do you answer posts in Adobe or other forums?

       

      I am often tempted to answer that, in capital letters and even not smiling smileys.

      As English is not my native language, I am curious to read from other types of answers like:

      - I beg to differ...

      - Simply not true...

      - If you believe that...

      - Nonsense! / Crap ...

      - Urban legend...

      - don't believe those self-promoted gurus!

      - may I suggest to look at the issue in an other way?

      - Don't believe XXXX or YYYY. They are spreading idiotic misinformation in their sites. (good one to bypass moderation...)

      - " Sutor, nec ultra crepidam " (I prefer "bonum vinum laetificat cor hominum", but when I think about how many users will rush on Wikipedia...)

      - Can you substantiate your (legitimate) thesis by logical reasoning, forum metrics, marketing shares, possibly some common sense?

      - So, you have been programming for 50 years? / you are a retired IT manager? / You are a [Microsoft / Apple / Google] expert consultant?

      - Incorrect use of language. According to the 'Oxford dictionary...'

      - Sorry, the Adobe link you have been given is [missing / not updated/ not relevant to your software ]

      - ??????????

      - Common misunderstanding for newbies!

      - No, color management is easy!

      - Yes, Lightoom is in the cloud.

       

      Other suggestions very welcome.

        • 1. Re: WRONG !!! [Forum etiquette]
          Cactus Cowboy Level 1

          I don't get it...can you be more to the point, maybe a little more concise. It this a question or a rant or both?

          • 2. Re: WRONG !!! [Forum etiquette]
            MichelBParis Adobe Community Professional & MVP

            https://forums.adobe.com/people/Cactus+Cowboy  wrote

             

            I don't get it...can you be more to the point, maybe a little more concise. It this a question or a rant or both?

            Is this another suggestion to add to my list ?

            • 3. Re: WRONG !!! [Forum etiquette]
              Cactus Cowboy Level 1

              There you go; you've answered your own question.

              • 5. Re: WRONG !!! [Forum etiquette]
                Pariah Burke Adobe Community Professional

                Those all seem negative and hostile to me. The biggest one thing I've learned in all the years I've been teaching and speaking about Adobe products all over the world, writing books and hundreds of articles, and, more recently, authoring dozens of video courses on Adobe products for Pluralsight, is that no one knows everything. I've been called "expert," "guru," "master," and similar things, and even carried official titles branding me as an Adobe Expert, Adobe Community Expert, and Technical Lead for [several Adobe products]. With all my experience and knowledge, I still learn something new about Adobe products and, especially, how people use them, every day.

                 

                It's better to keep an open mind that someone else knows something you don't than to look for ways to say "you're wrong and I'm right."

                 

                Of course, there ARE such situations. Someone recently recommend 100% of all four process colors as the best formula for Rich Black, which, by any experienced measure, is wrong. In such cases, I try to state my opinion backed up by evidence and maybe a little bit about my experience to lend credibility to my opinion. At the same time, I do try to allow that, however unlikely in even the most extreme case, the opposing viewpoint might be just as valid.

                 

                I typically say, things like...

                • I understand your point, but my opinion is...
                • I disagree because...
                • That's a new method/use/idea to me, I've always done it/seen it done this way...
                • I think you'll have better results if you...

                And so on.

                • 6. Re: WRONG !!! [Forum etiquette]
                  JR_Boulay Adobe Community Professional

                  Do you answer posts in Adobe or other forums?

                  Yes.

                  I only answer this question because I do not understand the following.

                  My knowledge of English is not enough, and that of Google Translate either.

                   

                  • 7. Re: WRONG !!! [Forum etiquette]
                    JR_Boulay Adobe Community Professional

                    I typically say, things like...

                    And so on.

                    Saying things politely does not prevent to hurt one's interlocutor.

                    One must simply give one's reasoned answer by ignoring those that are contrary, do not deviate from the question asked and never respond to provocation. Otherwise it will soon look like Facebook.

                     

                    In the end it is up to everyone to make an intelligent and reasoned opinion but nothing more can be done for congenital idiots and lazy brains.

                     

                    1 person found this helpful
                    • 8. Re: WRONG !!! [Forum etiquette]
                      Nancy OShea Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                      I'm brutally honest sometimes and say way what I think.   But I try to keep it on topic and remain polite & professional.

                       

                      A recent example:

                      Re: Can't cancel Creative Cloud

                       

                       

                      Nancy

                      1 person found this helpful
                      • 9. Re: WRONG !!! [Forum etiquette]
                        cmgap Adobe Community Professional

                        It's a conundrum for sure... if your first thought is a snarky response I think its best to step away from the computer and have a cup of tea or go for a walk or just breathe. Folks out there are at such different levels of technology savvy... do what you can to do the most good. If I've rolled my eyes so far up in my head at a question it prompts me to actively look for  another question perhaps in a different forum that I might be able to answer productively. I do remember when I must have been (might still be) one of those idiots asking the most basic of questions.

                        • 10. Re: WRONG !!! [Forum etiquette]
                          MichelBParis Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                          Thanks all for your insight and for taking the time to provide answers...

                          Apart from Cactus Cowboy (who gave me my preferred answer), you are all ACPs and you all missed my point which is my fault. I apologize for not being clear.

                          As discussed today in another Adobe forum, the tone of discussions requires moderation... and moderation sometimes need some discussions. In that other discussion, a very true fact (non only an opinion) is that written conversation does not convey your mood and your intention (what JR_Boulay has perfectly understood - "différents langages, différentes cultures, différent humour ")

                          I have been following this forum from the start and never dared to start a discussion. I did hope that this unique open forum would draw more non ACPs to chat freely about non technical issues. I did hope to get the feelings of normal users about the different behaviours in various forums; I wrongly assumed that picturing the most common styles of answers in most forums would make you smile or even have a laugh . (JR_Boulay: d'accord, ce ne sont pas les caractères de La Bruyère ni la tirade du nez de Cyrano ; très mauvais).

                          It's not the first time my intentions are not understood in forums.

                           

                          Of course, it's easy for all of you to check my profile and my activity to see what is my own style to answer questions. I have never got a remark from moderators or other peers. What I did not realize when posting here was that your answers would help me in taking a decision I was procrastinating. I have been suggested to ask for being a moderator. Now I understand better why I suspected it would be inadequate.

                          • 11. Re: WRONG !!! [Forum etiquette]
                            Nancy OShea Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                            Moderating of forums is mostly a job of moving posts from a general interest forum like this one -- The Lounge -- to another  product specific forum where the OP will receive better answers.    I don't like to edit posts unless it contains sensitive personal information or objectionable remarks that might offend other users.  

                             

                            If you have been invited to be a moderator, accept it with the understanding that you do not have to participate in moderating duties unless you have the time and inclination for it.   I do it when I can.  But I don't do it all the time.

                             

                             

                            Nancy

                            1 person found this helpful
                            • 12. Re: WRONG !!! [Forum etiquette]
                              JR_Boulay Adobe Community Professional

                              English Moderators, please, please, edit and correct all typos and mispellings that makes non sense when translated to other languages.

                              I do it often for French messages.

                              • 13. Re: WRONG !!! [Forum etiquette]
                                pziecina Adobe Community Professional

                                JR_Boulay  wrote

                                 

                                English Moderators, please, please, edit and correct all typos and mispellings

                                Not that easy.

                                 

                                I live in the U/K, Nancy lives in the USA, and even though in general we both understand each other, the spelling and grammar used in both contries can differ beyond what most people think.

                                 

                                In a recent discussion in the Dw forum this was very well illustrated in that one poster thought they had been insulted, but the poster of the remarks thought they where just plain speeking.

                                 

                                Nancy suggested a film called 'Arrival' to illustrate misunderstandings, and it is probably a good recomendation for everyone.

                                • 14. Re: WRONG !!! [Forum etiquette]
                                  JR_Boulay Adobe Community Professional

                                  Sorry, this is the part of the sentence that should be bold : "…that makes non sense when translated…"

                                   

                                  I was thinking more about abbreviations, acronyms and expressions (it rains cats and dogs) that make no sense in another language.

                                   

                                   

                                  • 15. Re: WRONG !!! [Forum etiquette]
                                    davescm Adobe Community Professional

                                    Hi

                                    Whilst I understand the sense in your request, I would never edit a post for bad spelling/grammar/local phrases. It would very easy to, inadvertently, change the meaning or to put words/phrases in that the original poster would never have used.

                                    With the exception of editing profanity or personal information I leave the posts as the originator posted.

                                     

                                    I do occasionally add an edit to a title (and mark it as edited). For example change Help - to Help [with brush panel] .

                                     

                                    Dave

                                    • 16. Re: WRONG !!! [Forum etiquette]
                                      MichelBParis Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                      JR_Boulay  wrote

                                       

                                      Sorry, this is the part of the sentence that should be bold : "…that makes non sense when translated…"

                                       

                                      I was thinking more about abbreviations, acronyms and expressions (it rains cats and dogs) that make no sense in another language.

                                       

                                       

                                      Just an example:

                                      In French the word 'terrible' can mean either 'awful ' or 'fantastic ' depending on the context; do you expect an online translation to do the right choice?

                                      I often advise non-native English speakers to post in their native language to avoid any such misunderstandings.

                                      About the use (excessive use) of smileys: it's often absolutely necessary if you think your tone and meaning may be misunderstood. Especially if you are joking and at risk to be taken very seriously. Better more smileys than none (childish, but who cares?)

                                      • 17. Re: WRONG !!! [Forum etiquette]
                                        Nancy OShea Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                        JR_Boulay  wrote

                                         

                                        I was thinking more about abbreviations, acronyms and expressions (it rains cats and dogs) that make no sense in another language.

                                         

                                         

                                         

                                        In Europe during the middle ages, most people lived in houses with thatched roofs (mud & straw).  The thatch gave small animals a safe haven from cold weather.  But when it rained especially hard or for long periods of time the animals jumped out of the eaves  and onto the dirt floor to stay dry.   Hence the English phrase, "it's raining cats & dogs." 

                                         

                                        Nancy

                                        • 18. Re: WRONG !!! [Forum etiquette]
                                          Nancy OShea Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                          pziecina  wrote

                                           

                                          I live in the U/K, Nancy lives in the USA, and even though in general we both understand each other, the spelling and grammar used in both contries can differ beyond what most people think.

                                          That's right.  Everybody spells funny except in the USA

                                           

                                          But seriously, we're all guilty of typos & grammar mistakes.

                                           

                                          JR_Boulay

                                          From where I sit, moderation does not include spelling & grammar checks.   Sorry.

                                           

                                          Nancy

                                          • 19. Re: WRONG !!! [Forum etiquette]
                                            Cactus Cowboy Level 1

                                            I love this Nancy, I absolutely never knew where this saying came from. I learned something today, like Paul Harvey used to say "And now you know the rest of the story". I miss his radio show.

                                            • 20. Re: WRONG !!! [Forum etiquette]
                                              JR_Boulay Adobe Community Professional

                                              In Europe during the middle ages, most people lived…

                                              I know this, but many people and Google Translate don't.

                                              In French "it rains ropes".

                                              (Il pleut des cordes)

                                               

                                              • 21. Re: WRONG !!! [Forum etiquette]
                                                jane-e Adobe Community Professional

                                                JR_Boulay  wrote

                                                 

                                                English Moderators, please, please, edit and correct all typos and mispellings that makes nonsense when translated to other languages.

                                                I do it often for French messages.

                                                 

                                                 

                                                JR_Boulay, please suggest this to Tricia and Caroline to put this word out to all moderators. It never occurred to me, and I think it's a great idea!

                                                 

                                                (I removed the space when quoting you to make "nonsense" one word. That's a small start!)

                                                 

                                                I think typos should be clear typos, such as misspelled words—never rewriting sentences.

                                                • 22. Re: WRONG !!! [Forum etiquette]
                                                  davescm Adobe Community Professional

                                                  Whose spelling though?  I speak and spell in English, as it is spoken and spelt in England. But that differs from U.S. English in many words, including "spelt".

                                                   

                                                  There is also a danger that a poster raises a question and, instead of reading an answer, has his/her spelling errors corrected. That would annoy me considerably.  The forum already has a spelling checker which highlights words when typing. I would leave it at that.

                                                   

                                                  Dave

                                                  • 23. Re: WRONG !!! [Forum etiquette]
                                                    Obi-wan Kenobi Adobe Community Professional

                                                    Hi,

                                                     

                                                    I have long since stopped wasting my time on these kinds of questions!

                                                    I just let the community appreciate ...

                                                     

                                                    I just have a council [and a rule of conduct]:

                                                     

                                                    Avoid saying nonsense! [with or without smiley, with or without translation problem] ...

                                                     

                                                    (^/)

                                                    • 24. Re: WRONG !!! [Forum etiquette]
                                                      jane-e Adobe Community Professional

                                                      Good point, @davescm. I was thinking of the glaring ones which are obvious misspellings, but you are absolutely correct that it could go wrong!

                                                       

                                                       

                                                      • 25. Re: WRONG !!! [Forum etiquette]
                                                        Peru Bob Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                        I used to correct grammar and typos on another forum on which I am a moderator.  I sometimes used to PM those who posted typos and grammatical errors instead of editing the posts.

                                                         

                                                        I no longer do that unless the error causes the statement to be incorrect.

                                                         

                                                        grammar police.jpgdd5f0be72bac1ef0693eb30361f042b2--good-grammar-grammar-humor.jpg

                                                        • 26. Re: WRONG !!! [Forum etiquette]
                                                          jane-e Adobe Community Professional

                                                          https://forums.adobe.com/people/Peru+Bob  wrote

                                                           

                                                          I used to correct grammar and typos on another forum on which I am a moderator.

                                                          ...

                                                          I no longer do that unless the error causes the statement to be incorrect.

                                                           

                                                          Bob, I haven't been, but it never occurred to me before about the translation issues that JR_Boulay mentioned.

                                                          • 27. Re: WRONG !!! [Forum etiquette]
                                                            TriciaLawrence Adobe Employee

                                                            Noted, I'll add a slide to the Moderator Deck on the translation reasons for correcting typos/grammar.  Thanks!

                                                            1 person found this helpful
                                                            • 28. Re: WRONG !!! [Forum etiquette]
                                                              ricky336 Level 3

                                                              Problem is, a lot of people don't use the spell checker. It is easy to misspell a word when typing and so this is where the spell checker comes in real handy. However, rather than checking for typos and making sure the message is clear they just press send!

                                                              • 29. Re: WRONG !!! [Forum etiquette]
                                                                Brad Lawryk Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                                I think I have totally missed the point trying to be made here?

                                                                • 30. Re: WRONG !!! [Forum etiquette]
                                                                  MichelBParis Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                                  https://forums.adobe.com/people/Brad+Lawryk  wrote

                                                                   

                                                                  I think I have totally missed the point trying to be made here?

                                                                  Brad,

                                                                  See my post Nr 10.

                                                                  The forum Lounge is of very different nature from the other technical forums. It's also different from the mvp/acp/moderators backrooms.

                                                                  It is open to all and you can freely  start any entertaining or serious general topic and enjoy the pleasure of well-behaved discussion between very different persons. However, let's face it, you mostly see 'insiders' starting or taking part in discussions here, most outsiders come here to find technical answers and only a few topics are succesfull in the original purpose of the forum.

                                                                   

                                                                  Yes, I did apologize for not being clear from the start.

                                                                  I did not come here to ask for guidance for moderation. There are other forums for that.

                                                                  I did not think at all about mvp/acp answering questions. I had been browsing different (not only Adobe) forums and was interested in the various behaviours and styles of posters when they face very conflicting points of view. (General forums etiquette, not moderation rules).

                                                                  I wrongly thought that I could start an open and entertaining discussion by depicting a portrait gallery of the various styles. Bad luck, everyone missed the point (starting with the first answer). I should have known that I was ridiculous to try some 'humour' in an international forum.

                                                                   

                                                                  Now, what I find very interesting in this successful discussion is not the missed entertainment purpose, it's the nature of the discussion about communication between users of different languages and cultures, and the limitations of forum posting (hence the need for smileys...)

                                                                  • 31. Re: WRONG !!! [Forum etiquette]
                                                                    ricky336 Level 3

                                                                    So to add to your original post, What about: "We agree to disagree."