12 Replies Latest reply on Feb 9, 2018 1:37 AM by D Fosse

    Color changes from Adobe Color CC to Photoshop CC

    markus84 Level 1

      When I make a color theme in Adobe Color CC and then opens it in Photoshop CC. It changes its visual apperance, in some colors alot and others less and even CMYK/RGB code changes depending from where i select the color. why is that?

       

      Let´s take CYAN as an example, on this color this is probably most apperant. (See picture and following text)

      Color test.jpg

      1: The color CYAN selected in photoshop. (100,0,0,0)

      2: the color cyan from adobe color. selected thru the Adobe color themes panel. The visual of the color on the panel is very different but the result is the same when applied (100,0,0,0)

      3: The color CYAN is added to the swatches panel from adobe color themes panel. And then applied. In this case the "CYAN" color turns in to (46,0,11,0)

       

      Can anyone help me explain what is happening and why?

      Why does the colors in Adobe Color CC look so different from Photoshop and why does it change in Phooshop depending on how i apply it???

       

      The same phenomenon occurs in both RGB and CMYK mode. I´m running a windows computer and haven´t seen any differences in Chrome and Explorer on how Adobe Color shows the colors. I have monitors callibrated regularly a Eizo and Wacom zintiq. So I am pretty sure that the screens does'nt  play me any tricks.

        • 1. Re: Color changes from Adobe Color CC to Photoshop CC
          D Fosse Adobe Community Professional & MVP

          I'm not familiar with Adobe Color - but what you are describing is a non color managed environment vs. Photoshop. In that context it all sounds perfectly normal to me.

           

          Numbers don't mean anything until they refer to a specific color space. 100-0-0 in sRGB is a very different color than 100-0-0 in Adobe RGB. So whatever you pick up in Adobe Color will look different depending on what color space the file is in.

           

          Without color management, those numbers are displayed as Monitor RGB, whatever that is. So 100-0-0 has no reference whatsoever and displays like anything at all. The numbers are just sent straight through.

           

          In CMYK it gets even more unpredictable, because all conversions back and forth are done according to your working spaces.

           

          Why they have chosen to make a "color" app without color management is a mystery, but it falls in line with the rest of the web-related tools from Adobe.

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          • 2. Re: Color changes from Adobe Color CC to Photoshop CC
            Test Screen Name Most Valuable Participant

            Is your concern that "cyan" as a name of a colour is being used for different colours? This is entirely right.

             

            In my dictionary "cyan" is a greenish blue colour OR a blue printer's ink. So cyan ink isn't even cyan in colour!

             

            Any of a very wide range of colours can be correctly called "cyan", in exactly the same way that there is no rule that says all "red" things must be the same colour. Cyan inks may or may not be cyan in colour, but we all agree that not all cyan ink is the same colour: it depends on the brand or mix of printer's ink in use.

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            • 3. Re: Color changes from Adobe Color CC to Photoshop CC
              markus84 Level 1

              Thank you for your answer and helping me understand a little bit more.

               

              With guidance from your answer I have tried to dig deeper into and understanding the subject. And if I understand it right. Adobe Color use LAB color space as its color managment. So if I change the color mode in Photoshop to LAB color, all colors from Adobe colors get the same LAB values in Photoshop as they have in Adobe color. So in other words I now know how to get the right color managment between the to apps.

               

              But I still can not understand why  Adobe Color dosen't show me cyan when i put in (100,0,0,0) in the CMYK field. Should not the right cyan vaules simply just give me cyan. What's then the point with the CMYK field?  But i guess that's a question for an other section of this user forum.......

               

              These questions are unavoidable after a while and unfortunately they are hard to find an answer to or even understand the answer when the answer is there in front of you. I would really wish that Adobe could take their time and explain their thoughts about services like Adobe color. Beacuse it is a great tool for me as a designer. But it colud be even better with some bakground info.

              • 4. Re: Color changes from Adobe Color CC to Photoshop CC
                Test Screen Name Most Valuable Participant

                "I still can not understand why  Adobe Color dosen't show me cyan when i put in (100,0,0,0) in the CMYK field." It should show a colour something like a cyan printer's ink - more blue in colour than cyan. The exact colour it shows depend which CMYK profile is selected at the time (in other words, the exact colour depends on the brand of ink).

                 

                It should never show a brilliant blue-green colour. This would be absolutely wrong in all cases.

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                • 5. Re: Color changes from Adobe Color CC to Photoshop CC
                  markus84 Level 1

                  Your name point of cyan is actually very interesting. I really like these talks and I have them several times a week. Color psychology and how we use and talk about colors are "my thing", the more technical part of colors are more of a necessary evil. I would absolutely not say I am good at this technical part but I am trying to learn as much as possible. And it will probably be wrong even though I'm trying to do it right.

                   

                  So in my original question, No I am not concerned at all that the name cyan could be used for many different colors. It would be strange if if would.

                  Maybe it would have been better to call it color X, but i thought the name and cyan example would be easier to follow and understand.

                   

                  My concern however is that cyan or color X ( a cmyk or rgb value) in adobe color give me completely different colors visually than the same value in photoshop. The logic I possess says that the same cmyk or rgb value should look the same visually in two different programs. But I am starting to be aware of that that's not the case.

                  • 6. Re: Color changes from Adobe Color CC to Photoshop CC
                    markus84 Level 1

                    "The exact colour it shows depend which CMYK profile is selected at the time (in other words, the exact colour depends on the brand of ink)."

                     

                    Does this mean if I new what cmyk profile adobe use at adobe color and then set the same profile in photoshop that the colors would match up visually?

                    • 7. Re: Color changes from Adobe Color CC to Photoshop CC
                      Test Screen Name Most Valuable Participant

                      That would be more or less what I’d hope. I’d Also hope the profiles for Adobe Color were easily set in Preferences, as they are in Photoshop.

                      • 8. Re: Color changes from Adobe Color CC to Photoshop CC
                        D Fosse Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                        I have Adobe Color CC (color.adobe.com) open in Firefox as I write this - and this is, frankly, ridiculous.

                         

                        In Photoshop, I'm punching in a cyan color in sRGB, 25,155, 245. That particular color is well within sRGB gamut, so no surprises. Or so I thought.

                         

                        In Lab, this color is 61, -8, -55. That's an absolute color reference.

                         

                        So I go to Adobe Color and put in those Lab numbers. In the RGB readout it now says...0, 157, 245. What's this??? It's not sRGB, it's not Adobe RGB, it's not even Monitor RGB. This is the difference:

                        color.png

                         

                        It's fine that they give a Lab readout. But giving RGB and CMYK numbers without a specific reference to which RGB or CMYK color space - that's just...nonsense. One could assume sRGB, which is the defacto default if no color space is given - but it's not even accurate at that!

                         

                        Bottom line - these appear to be just random numbers without any real-world reference. This is completely useless.

                         

                        Oh, BTW - assuming this actually worked, CMYK numbers would be whatever you have set as working CMYK. If you haven't changed anything, that's US Web Coated (SWOP), which only has limited use in North/South America, and not at all elsewhere.

                        1 person found this helpful
                        • 9. Re: Color changes from Adobe Color CC to Photoshop CC
                          D Fosse Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                          I had to take another look at this, but I still don't get it.

                           

                          Visually, it checks out as sRGB, when compared to an sRGB patch in Photoshop. When I take a screenshot with both and compare RGB numbers, they are roughly the same, maybe off by one or two values. That could be Firefox, so no big deal.

                           

                          But the Lab numbers don't check out, and I've no idea why not. It just doesn't make any sense. I'm used to color managed or not, either this or that. But this is neither. It's just...off. I don't get it.

                           

                          I didn't even bother with CMYK. CMYK what?

                           

                          It all boils down to this: Anything that gives you "RGB" or "CMYK" numbers without telling you which RGB or CMYK - stay away from it. It's feeding you meaningless numbers.

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                          • 10. Re: Color changes from Adobe Color CC to Photoshop CC
                            markus84 Level 1

                            ......the confusion continues.

                             

                            I did a couple of tests myself, maybe you can help me to interpret them.

                             

                            Test 1: Performed in Photoshop CC (sRGB working space) and adobe color CC

                             

                            color test 2.jpg

                             

                            1. the cmyk values for cyan in photoshop (original lab values i got here was 62,-44,-50)

                            2. took the rgb values for cyan that photoshop gave me and put them into adobe color.

                            3,4. then the rgb values back to photoshop and looked at the lab values I got back.

                            5,6. then i did the same but the other way around. LAB values from adobe color back to photoshop.

                             

                            What does this tell me.? Values change a bit, yes, but is this in proportion what i should expect? Visually the colors look close to the same. Cmyk values are way of all the time, stay away from them.

                             

                            Test 2: I did exactly the same with a handfull of other random selected colors. And the pattern repeats itself. Sometime its closer in values sometime a little bit more apart. And it varies from close to quite far apart on how they compare visually.

                             

                            Test/Reflection 3:

                            I started to think about the values and colors that "cyan" gives me. And I did a comparison also there.

                             

                            cyan.jpg

                            First what does wikipedia say about cyan. ( I have also read in many places on the internet that cmyk 100,0,0,0 is absolutely not rgb 0,255,255). If wikipedia is a good source or not we could leave out for now. Adobe color however fully agree with wikipedia on both color codes and color visually. But photoshop shows me something completely different. Both in rgb code and color visually.

                             

                            Could  anyone please explain this to me??! right now I am feeling really confused again......

                            1 person found this helpful
                            • 11. Re: Color changes from Adobe Color CC to Photoshop CC
                              Test Screen Name Most Valuable Participant

                              There are people, ignorant and unwilling to learn, who believe colour codes mean something fixed. Unfortunately a lot of them contribute to Wikipedia and would cheerfully edit the page for “red” to include some specific RGB and CMYK codes as if they were in charge of the spectrum and knew what they were talking about. I fought it for a few years, then walked away from Wikipedia completely because the forces of ignorance were endless.

                               

                              No! No! No! Colour codes mean nothing unless they are applied to a specific space. And colour names are a vague human subjective concept unless they are in the context of a specific standard. End. COLOUR CODES MEAN NOTHING.

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                              • 12. Re: Color changes from Adobe Color CC to Photoshop CC
                                D Fosse Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                Yes, absolutely, I'll put my name to that.

                                 

                                0-255-255 in sRGB is not the same color as 0-255-255 in Adobe RGB is not the same color as 0-255-255 in ProPhoto. Repeat this to yourself 100 times until you can say it in your sleep or whenever someone pokes you with a sharp object.

                                 

                                Watch this:

                                color_picker_1.png

                                 

                                Not only are the RGB numbers identical, but the hex numbers are as well. Anyone who still believes that hex is a "reliable" number should reconsider that right now. It's just RGB in a different notation.

                                 

                                CMYK is even worse, because they're not "ideal" color spaces like those above. CMYK color always corresponds to a very specific combination of paper, ink specification, and offset press characteristics. The only reason we have a manageable set of CMYK profiles is that presses are usually carefully calibrated to meet certain standards (which vary around the world).

                                 

                                But since the Photoshop default - because there has to be some default - just happens to be US Web Coated (SWOP), people think this is some kind of holy "master" CMYK. It isn't, and especially not if you're outside North and South America, where the SWOP specification doesn't even apply.