15 Replies Latest reply on Feb 9, 2018 1:16 AM by bob frost

    Import parameters to zero

    Dana Mill
      When I import from a camera, I would like LR to take no action AT ALL on my files. So I choose one of the 2 options: import parameters to zero or no import parameters. However, a few seconds after previews are displayed in the catalog, LR modifies their contrast anyway, and the contrast settings used are wrong. Previews in the cameras have far more natural contrast. I don't know what to do. It's been years that I noticed this issue. A proof that LR applies some contrast just after importations is that when I open the photos with Photoshop directly from the camera they look better and the histogram is different. Thanks.

       

       

       

       


       

        • 1. Re: Import parameters to zero
          F. McLion Adobe Community Professional & MVP

          That is absolutely normal.

          First, it shows the preview your camera has stored to the file. LR then renders it's own preview from the image data and shows this.

          If you don't like its rendering as a start point, change the camera profile.

          Read here: How to Use Your Camera's Color Profiles in Lightroom

          • 2. Re: Import parameters to zero
            Dana Mill Level 1

            Thanks for the tip. I read the help.

            The problem is I shoot only RAWs.

            Camera profiles like landscape, portrait, natural and so on are not embedded to the photos in that case.

            Only SRGB or Adobe RGB keep embedded to RAW files after the import in LR.

            I use Adobe RGB in my camera as LR does (at least I believe so).

            So in theory, LR should not change the profile after import.

            When I go to camera calibration in LR, no profiles are available for any cameras I use as soon as shots are in RAW.

            So what kind of automatic change LR does during the import process?

            Photos look really different from the previews initially shown in the import windows.

            • 3. Re: Import parameters to zero
              Dana Mill Level 1

              Actually my camera profiles don't show in LR because Panasonic is not on the list. My mistake.

              Nikon camera profiles are displayed in LR even for RAW files, and the profile shown match the one in my camera (Adobe Standard).

              However the previews (and the photos) are modified during the import. They don't look the same a few seconds after they showed inside the import window.

              • 4. Re: Import parameters to zero
                john beardsworth Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                In the Import dialog, select Embedded and Sidecar in the preview options (top right). In Library, you will then see the camera's embedded previews, not Adobe's. In Develop, Adobe's raw conversion takes over.

                • 5. Re: Import parameters to zero
                  F. McLion Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                  You are mixing things up a bit.

                  For RAW it does not matter what you set in your camera, not for the profiles (styles like natural, landscape ...) nor for the color space (sRGB, AdobeRGB). Also, please note that these are completely separate things and have nothing to do with each other.

                  LR is using another working color-space, but you do not have to care about this.

                   

                  The camera profiles you have available in LR are not coming from your camera. They are supplied with LR and you can create and add additional ones if you like. The supplied profiles are created by Adobe to simulate the style you know from the camera when you shoot jpg.

                   

                  Again:

                  First, it shows the preview your camera has stored to the file.

                  Second, LR then renders it's own preview from the image data and shows this - and this where the camera profile selected in LR comes in. Change the style to your liking and set this as new standard.

                  1 person found this helpful
                  • 6. Re: Import parameters to zero
                    richardplondon Level 4

                    For RAW it does not matter what you set in your camera, not for the profiles (styles like natural, landscape ...) nor for the color space (sRGB, AdobeRGB). Also, please note that these are completely separate things and have nothing to do with each other.

                    Another way to put this, is that what you see e.g. on the back of the camera when you review a Raw image, is not "zero".

                     

                    Rather, it is the result of some quite complex processing, proprietary to the camera manufacturer, which has been carried out in the camera and then saved into a JPG preview for that Raw - the same processing which the camera would otherwise have used, if it had been set to shoot JPG instead of Raw. The specifics of  this processing are controlled by settings in the camera menu. Even though these settings are also encoded (in proprietary form) into the metadata of the Raw file, they remain a mystery to the Adobe software. They are simply in a different "language", referring to foreign "internal workings".

                     

                    The camera profiles you have available in LR are not coming from your camera. They are supplied with LR and you can create and add additional ones if you like. The supplied profiles are created by Adobe to simulate the style you know from the camera when you shoot jpg.

                    There is one exception here: some cameras can shoot DNG natively - either as the sole Raw format available, or else as an alternative to a proprietary Raw format. Pentax for instance, has offered this option on some models. The resulting DNG when viewed within LR, may contain an additional choice in the camera profiles list - "Embedded" - whereby selecting this results in a rough simulation of whichever colour mode / style may have been active in the camera at the time the shutter was pressed. That has required an active operation on the part of the camera - hence will NOT apply if you have shot a proprietary Raw, and later converted it to a DNG.

                     

                    II works somewhat the same, as the "as-shot" White Balance option.

                    1 person found this helpful
                    • 7. Re: Import parameters to zero
                      Just Shoot Me Adobe Community Professional

                      If you want LR to take no action at all the you have to modify the Default Settings in that way.

                       

                      Display a RAW image in the Develop module.

                      Go to each section in the right hand panel and make all change you want, IE set everything to Zero.

                      Go to the Develop menu item and select Set Default Settings.

                      In the dialog box that comes up select "Update to Current settings".

                      This will set all settings to what you selected for all new imports.

                      • 8. Re: Import parameters to zero
                        Dana Mill Level 1

                        Yes, one can do that but my goal is to get raw files untouched so the LR settings called "zero" (on my version in French) is best for me.

                        • 9. Re: Import parameters to zero
                          Dana Mill Level 1

                          So given that there are no color profiles embedded during the import of RAWs I understand that LR applies automatically the Adobe Standard profile therefore changing the way they look. Thanks.

                           

                           

                          Capture d’écran 2018-02-08 à 07.21.02.png

                          • 10. Re: Import parameters to zero
                            F. McLion Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                            Correct, Adobe Standard is - as its name suggests - the default profile.

                            If you like the rendering of one of the other more and would like to have it as your default starting point after import, you can change the default as follows:

                             

                            - Reset a photo from that camera to defaults.

                            - Change the calibration profile to the one you like

                            - Now go to Develop menu > Set Default Settings.

                            • 11. Re: Import parameters to zero
                              elie_di Level 4
                              I would like LR to take no action AT ALL on my files.

                               

                              ....my goal is to get raw files untouched so the LR settings called "zero" (on my version in French) is best for me.

                               

                              If you know what a Raw file is, you will understand that this is impossible. A Raw is data file containing a digital representation of the analog output from the camera's sensor (voltages caused by incoming light intensities). It contains a single channel, a number for each pixel, and therefore an image built directly from Raw data would be only tones of grey. The color image with three channels per pixel is created by the Raw converter, either the one in your camera or Lightroom, through a process called "Demosaicing". The Raw image would also be dark and flat because the data is linear. Another part of the processing for color involves the application of a correction curve that makes it brighter and contrastier. So some processing has to be done by every Raw converter to every Raw file even to get to the "minimum". Even when the sliders are at zero LR's processing is fairly strong, because "zero" does not mean "none". Michael Frye, in his book "Landscapes in Lightroom", says that since the introduction of Process Version 3 in 2012, minimal processing would be Exposure -1.0 and Contrast -33. An additional factor is that Lightroom does another automatic correction to Raw images that is based on the camera model and the shooting ISO, called the Baseline Exposure. For instance, for my Canon 80D the BLE is ISO 100 - 0, ISO 200 - +0.28 and ISO 400 and up - +0.32.

                               

                              In the photos below, on the left is the Raw image as seen in Raw Digger; the middle is a minimally processed RGB rendering by Raw Digger; and on the right is Lightroom with all sliders zeroed.

                               

                              2 people found this helpful
                              • 12. Re: Import parameters to zero
                                Dana Mill Level 1

                                Thanks for the technical info. What I understand now is that there is no such thing as the "real original photo", even when shot in RAW. It's not like a slide was. A RAW has to be interpreted - Demosaiced - to become an actual image. But after all, every screen is already an interpretation so what matters, from my point of view, is to get the most faithful image to the souvenir we keep of what we saw when we shot it.

                                • 13. Re: Import parameters to zero
                                  bob frost Level 3

                                  I would just correct your last line to "what I saw when I saw it". No two people see things the same way. Our eyes and brains do the equivalent of raw rendering using each of our own built-in programs. So an image that you think is 'faithful' to the original may not look as faithful to someone else!

                                   

                                  Bob Frost

                                  • 14. Re: Import parameters to zero
                                    Dana Mill Level 1

                                    Strictly scientifically speaking you are right, we don't know how other people convert colors in their brain and what they really see. But I know what my eyes saw and I can manage to get images faithful to my personal vision which is all I need after all. Beside, I keep thinking that nature gave us all a roughly similar brain software to interpret colors so we can live in the same world, even though well trained eyes and brain can perceive a wider than average range of colors.

                                    • 15. Re: Import parameters to zero
                                      bob frost Level 3

                                      "I can manage to get images faithful to my personal vision which is all I need after all"

                                      ..........................................................

                                       

                                      Nit-picking perhaps, but that depends on what you are going to do with your images. If only you are going to view them then fine, your interpretation is all you need. BUT if you are going to sell your image, post it online, enter a competition, etc, then what matters is how the others interpret your image.

                                       

                                      Old people see some colours differently to young people because as they age, the lens in your eyes goes yellow and filters out some blue light. After a cataract op some years ago, I found that the eye with the new lens received much more blue light than the other untouched eye. When I went in for the op, the nurses were wearing uniforms with grey stripes: after the op one eye saw them still with grey stripes, but the eye with the new lens saw that they were actually light blue stripes on their uniforms. And the sky was so much bluer with the new lens!

                                       

                                      Food for thought!

                                       

                                      Bob frost