22 Replies Latest reply on Mar 27, 2008 6:13 AM by Newsgroup_User

    Emboss Isn't  Working

    Lorva
      I know how to emboss an image in Photoshop but can't get it to work in Fireworks 8.

      I'm using an image of a rosebud with the background removed. I've tried both .gif and .jpg

      The select image - Property/inspector/ filter/Bevel Emboss / Raised Emboss only embosses the outer edge of the image.

      I want to emboss the whole image, change the color and use it as a faint background on a web page.

      Can someone tell me what might be wrong?
        • 1. Re: Emboss Isn't  Working
          Level 7
          Lorva wrote:
          > I know how to emboss an image in Photoshop but can't get it to work in
          > Fireworks 8.
          >
          > I'm using an image of a rosebud with the background removed. I've tried both
          > .gif and .jpg
          >
          > The select image - Property/inspector/ filter/Bevel Emboss / Raised Emboss
          > only embosses the outer edge of the image.
          >
          > I want to emboss the whole image, change the color and use it as a faint
          > background on a web page.
          >
          > Can someone tell me what might be wrong?
          >

          You're right, the filter is not doing what I would expect either. It's
          only working with the edge of the object, not the contents. Sounds like
          a bug report may be in order.
          --
          Jim Babbage - .:Community MX:. & .:Adobe Community Expert:.
          http://www.communityMX.com/
          CommunityMX - Free Resources:
          http://www.communitymx.com/free.cfm
          ---
          .:Adobe Community Expert for Fireworks:.
          Adobe Community Expert
          http://tinyurl.com/2a7dyp
          ---
          See my work on Flickr
          http://www.flickr.com/photos/jim_babbage/
          • 2. Re: Emboss Isn't  Working
            Lorva Level 1
            Thanks.

            I was hoping I was doing something wrong so it would be a quick fix.

            I have FIreworks 8 installed on two different Mac computers and this problem occurs on both.

            I'll see what I can find out re this bug.

            • 3. Re: Emboss Isn't  Working
              Lorva Level 1
              I posted a message on the fireworks 8 bug report and the email bounced. So guess I'm out of luck unless someone can think of a workaround to get the emboss to work.
              • 4. Re: Emboss Isn't  Working
                Level 7
                Lorva wrote:
                > I posted a message on the fireworks 8 bug report and the email bounced. So guess I'm out of luck unless someone can think of a workaround to get the emboss to work.
                Well we're now well into CS3, so if you truly found a FW 8 bug report
                page, I'm not surprised it bounced:

                http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform&product=41



                --
                Jim Babbage - .:Community MX:. & .:Adobe Community Expert:.
                http://www.communityMX.com/
                CommunityMX - Free Resources:
                http://www.communitymx.com/free.cfm
                ---
                .:Adobe Community Expert for Fireworks:.
                Adobe Community Expert
                http://tinyurl.com/2a7dyp
                ---
                See my work on Flickr
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                • 5. Re: Emboss Isn't  Working
                  Level 7
                  On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 17:54:49 +0300, Lorva <webforumsuser@macromedia.com>
                  wrote:

                  > I know how to emboss an image in Photoshop but can't get it to work in
                  > Fireworks 8.
                  >
                  > I'm using an image of a rosebud with the background removed. I've tried
                  > both
                  > .gif and .jpg
                  >
                  > The select image - Property/inspector/ filter/Bevel Emboss / Raised
                  > Emboss
                  > only embosses the outer edge of the image.
                  >
                  > I want to emboss the whole image, change the color and use it as a faint
                  > background on a web page.
                  >
                  > Can someone tell me what might be wrong?

                  Sounds like you are trying to replicate Photoshop's "Emboss" filter which
                  works with bitmaps. FW "Bevels" are rather different thing.

                  I don't know if most modern version of FW have something like PS "Emboss",
                  but I can give you a version-independent technique allowing to duplicate
                  it.

                  1) Open your bitmap.
                  2) Duplicate it (drag the bitmap icon in "Layers" panel onto "new bitmap
                  image" icon).
                  3) Select the upper copy, in the "Properties" panel choose Effects - >
                  Adjust color - > Invert. Now you see the negative of your image.
                  4) With the upper (inverted) copy still selected, change it's transparency
                  to 50%. Now you should see solid neutral gray image.
                  5) With the upper copy selected, MOVE it a tiny bit, like one pixel left
                  and one pixel down. You can do it with "Select" tool, or by typing offset
                  values right in "Properties" inspector (X and Y fileds).
                  6) Enjoy the result. Fine tune the offset if necessary. Play by adding
                  blurs or something. Accept the fact that simple math often helps :-)

                  --
                  Ilya Razmanov
                  http://photoshop.msk.ru - Photoshop plug-in filters
                  • 6. Re: Emboss Isn't  Working
                    Lorva Level 1
                    Hi Ilya

                    Thanks for the tips. They didn't all apply/work in Fireworks 8 but it gave me some other ideas to try.


                    • 7. Re: Emboss Isn't  Working
                      Level 7
                      On Wed, 19 Mar 2008 20:02:35 +0300, Lorva <webforumsuser@macromedia.com>
                      wrote:

                      > Thanks for the tips. They didn't all apply/work in Fireworks 8 but it
                      > gave me some other ideas to try.

                      Hmm, then probably we just don't quite understand each other (take into
                      account that English is not my native language). I beleive I described
                      quite close approximation to some particular Photoshop filter, but may be
                      we are just talking about different things.

                      Could you please show an example of desired effect, and, hopefully, the
                      reference to Photoshop technique used?

                      --
                      Ilya Razmanov
                      http://photoshop.msk.ru - Photoshop plug-in filters
                      • 8. Re: Emboss Isn't  Working
                        Lorva Level 1
                        Hi Ilya,

                        Here is the url to a backtround tile I made in Photoshop of a book:
                        http://www.loriswebs.com/images/open-bible-lav.gif

                        I'm trying to make another background tile like the one above but of a
                        rosebud and also in Fireworks this time. here is the url of the rosebud:
                        http://www.loriswebs.com/images/embossedrosebud5.gif

                        BTW, I downloaded a trial version of Fireworks CS3 and it didn't emboss like I wanted either.

                        Thanks for trying to help.
                        • 9. Re: Emboss Isn't  Working
                          Level 7
                          Lorva wrote:
                          > I know how to emboss an image in Photoshop but can't get it to work in
                          > Fireworks 8.

                          Cybia Emboss Works plugin works in Fireworks, and it's free.

                          http://www.cybia.co.uk/embossworks.htm

                          --
                          Linda Rathgeber [PVII] *Adobe Community Expert-Fireworks*
                          --------------------------------------------------------------
                          http://www.projectseven.com
                          Fireworks Newsgroup: news://forums.projectseven.com/fireworks/
                          CSS Newsgroup: news://forums.projectseven.com/css/
                          http://www.adobe.com/communities/experts/
                          --------------------------------------------------------------
                          • 10. Re: Emboss Isn't  Working
                            Lorva Level 1
                            Thanks Linda but that plugin is only for Window and I use a Mac.

                            • 11. Re: Emboss Isn't  Working
                              Level 7
                              Lorva wrote:
                              > Thanks Linda but that plugin is only for Window and I use a Mac.

                              Time to upgrade to Windows. :-)

                              --
                              Linda Rathgeber [PVII] *Adobe Community Expert-Fireworks*
                              --------------------------------------------------------------
                              http://www.projectseven.com
                              Fireworks Newsgroup: news://forums.projectseven.com/fireworks/
                              CSS Newsgroup: news://forums.projectseven.com/css/
                              http://www.adobe.com/communities/experts/
                              --------------------------------------------------------------
                              • 12. Re: Emboss Isn't  Working
                                Level 7
                                On Sat, 22 Mar 2008 03:35:25 +0300, Lorva <webforumsuser@macromedia.com>
                                wrote:

                                > Hi Ilya,
                                >
                                > Here is the url to a backtround tile I made in Photoshop of a book:
                                > http://www.loriswebs.com/images/open-bible-lav.gif
                                >
                                > I'm trying to make another background tile like the one above but of a
                                > rosebud and also in Fireworks this time. here is the url of the rosebud:
                                > http://www.loriswebs.com/images/embossedrosebud5.gif
                                >

                                Hm, to me the technique I described work just the same as Photoshop
                                filter, so I can get some sort of embossed "rose" (I, however, preferred
                                to merge the rose against some grey background before processing rather
                                than having it on transparent layer. Have you tried working with rose on
                                some background?). However, it seems like your "book" original had
                                emphasized edges before the emboss, while "rose" is regular continuous
                                tone image. It would be nice to see the "book" image right before the
                                emboss. Probably we need a couple of extra steps to make it work well.

                                --
                                Ilya Razmanov
                                http://photoshop.msk.ru - Photoshop plug-in filters
                                • 13. Re: Emboss Isn't  Working
                                  Lorva Level 1
                                  I did some research and found out I can import Photoshop plug-ins (5.5 and older) into Fireworks 8. I have Photoshop 5.0 so reinsatlled it and imported the plugins per instructions in Fireworks, and restarted Fireworks (even restarted my computer) and they are nowhere to be seen. I also manually moved the Photoshop plugins into the Fireworks plugins folder and those can't be accessed from Live Filters either.

                                  Any suggestions?
                                  • 14. Re: Emboss Isn't  Working
                                    Level 7
                                    Lorva wrote:
                                    > I did some research and found out I can import Photoshop plug-ins (5.5 and
                                    > older) into Fireworks 8. I have Photoshop 5.0 so reinsatlled it and imported
                                    > the plugins per instructions in Fireworks, and restarted Fireworks (even
                                    > restarted my computer) and they are nowhere to be seen. I also manually moved
                                    > the Photoshop plugins into the Fireworks plugins folder and those can't be
                                    > accessed from Live Filters either.
                                    >
                                    > Any suggestions?
                                    >
                                    You've got to tell Fireworks where they are by using Locate Plugins AND
                                    you will have to edit the disabled plugins text file. I go through this
                                    each time I install a new version of FW.

                                    Note that not all the 5.0/5.5 filters will work, but many of them do.

                                    --
                                    Jim Babbage - .:Community MX:. & .:Adobe Community Expert:.
                                    http://www.communityMX.com/
                                    CommunityMX - Free Resources:
                                    http://www.communitymx.com/free.cfm
                                    ---
                                    .:Adobe Community Expert for Fireworks:.
                                    Adobe Community Expert
                                    http://tinyurl.com/2a7dyp
                                    ---
                                    See my work on Flickr
                                    http://www.flickr.com/photos/jim_babbage/
                                    • 15. Re: Emboss Isn't  Working
                                      Lorva Level 1
                                      Hi Ilya,

                                      I set up a tutorial on this topic because I thought I could get this working in Fireworks 8. I think I have done as you said below re using a gray scale image instead of transparent. I think what I need now is some way of adding highlight to make the image appear to be raised. If you have any suggestions I'd appreciat it. Here is the tut:
                                      http://www.loriswebs.com/tutorials/embossedimagefireworks.html

                                      BTW, the original book image was black and white and that's probably why there is such a difference between the two tiles. I don't have the original.


                                      • 16. Re: Emboss Isn't  Working
                                        Lorva Level 1
                                        Hi Jim,

                                        Can you tell me how "to edit the disabled plugins text file" please ?
                                        • 17. Re: Emboss Isn't  Working
                                          Level 7
                                          Lorva wrote:
                                          > Hi Jim,
                                          >
                                          > Can you tell me how "to edit the disabled plugins text file" please ?

                                          Open the file in a text editor. You will see near the top of hte list
                                          the format for enabling/disabling the filters:

                                          %(Category)(Filter)(isEnabled)(isLive)
                                          and set the state for the filters to true for each filter you wish to enable

                                          --
                                          Jim Babbage - .:Community MX:. & .:Adobe Community Expert:.
                                          http://www.communityMX.com/
                                          CommunityMX - Free Resources:
                                          http://www.communitymx.com/free.cfm
                                          ---
                                          .:Adobe Community Expert for Fireworks:.
                                          Adobe Community Expert
                                          http://tinyurl.com/2a7dyp
                                          ---
                                          See my work on Flickr
                                          http://www.flickr.com/photos/jim_babbage/
                                          • 18. Re: Emboss Isn't  Working
                                            Level 7
                                            On Sun, 23 Mar 2008 22:03:14 +0300, Lorva <webforumsuser@macromedia.com>
                                            wrote:

                                            > Hi Ilya,
                                            >
                                            > I set up a tutorial on this topic because I thought I could get this
                                            > working
                                            > in Fireworks 8. I think I have done as you said below re using a gray
                                            > scale
                                            > image instead of transparent. I think what I need now is some way of
                                            > adding
                                            > highlight to make the image appear to be raised. If you have any
                                            > suggestions
                                            > I'd appreciat it. Here is the tut:
                                            > http://www.loriswebs.com/tutorials/embossedimagefireworks.html

                                            I'm sorry but it seems that your tutorial miss one very important step I
                                            described in my first reply. Note, my original method involved *both*
                                            inverted copy with 50% opacity *and* original. Your tutorial mention only
                                            one of them. And, actually, I son't see much emboss in it. I can't upload
                                            images to my site right now (due to security measures) but I'll try to
                                            send some example image tomorrow.

                                            > BTW, the original book image was black and white and that's probably
                                            > why there
                                            > is such a difference between the two tiles.

                                            This is very important thing. BW original had highest local contrast along
                                            the detail edges possible. Continuous tone photo have much less local
                                            contrast. I'll see what can be done with it...

                                            --
                                            Ilya Razmanov
                                            http://photoshop.msk.ru - Photoshop plug-in filters
                                            • 19. Re: Emboss Isn't  Working
                                              Level 7
                                              On Sun, 23 Mar 2008 22:03:14 +0300, Lorva <webforumsuser@macromedia.com>
                                              wrote:

                                              > Hi Ilya,
                                              >
                                              > I set up a tutorial on this topic because I thought I could get this
                                              > working
                                              > in Fireworks 8. I think I have done as you said below re using a gray
                                              > scale
                                              > image instead of transparent. I think what I need now is some way of
                                              > adding
                                              > highlight to make the image appear to be raised. If you have any
                                              > suggestions
                                              > I'd appreciat it. Here is the tut:
                                              > http://www.loriswebs.com/tutorials/embossedimagefireworks.html

                                              Ok, here we go again:

                                              http://photoshop.msk.ru/private/emboss2.png - emboss of your original
                                              image. The file is FW PNG, so you can open it in FW and see how all the
                                              details regarding layers and effects, should be easy for you to understand
                                              and reproduce.

                                              http://photoshop.msk.ru/private/emboss1.png - emboss after "Find edeges".
                                              Pretty rough though.

                                              http://photoshop.msk.ru/private/emboss1.png - emboss after my custom
                                              method of finding edges.

                                              Does any of them look embossed enough to you?

                                              --
                                              Ilya Razmanov
                                              http://photoshop.msk.ru - Photoshop plug-in filters
                                              • 20. Re: Emboss Isn't  Working
                                                Lorva Level 1
                                                Hi Ilya,

                                                Thanks for posting your images. . The first one looks like what I can do in photoshop. The 2nd looks more like line art that I have tried. The 3rd one was the same file name as the 2nd so I couldn't tell what you meant there.

                                                I think the problem I'm having is that your first set of instructions are confusing and don't seem to apply to Fireworks so please allow me to clarify. My comments in [[ ]]s and only where I couldn't follow your instructions:

                                                1) Open your bitmap.
                                                2) Duplicate it (drag the bitmap icon in "Layers" panel onto "new bitmap
                                                image" icon).
                                                3) Select the upper copy, in the "Properties" panel choose Effects - >
                                                [[when duplicating the image it now becomes the lower image,
                                                not the upper so I assume it should be the lower one as the upper has no effect]]
                                                Adjust color - > Invert. Now you see the negative of your image.
                                                4) With the upper (inverted) copy still selected, change it's transparency to 50%.
                                                [[ I assume you meant opacity so I changed the opacity of the lower image]]
                                                Now you should see solid neutral gray image.
                                                [[it wasn't solid gray--it was gray and green, etc.
                                                I went to Adjust Color/Hue/Saturation and set saturation at -100 to turn it gray]]
                                                5) With the upper copy selected, MOVE it a tiny bit, like one pixel left
                                                and one pixel down. You can do it with "Select" tool, or by typing offset
                                                values right in "Properties" inspector (X and Y fileds).
                                                [[I used the lower image and used the arrows instead]]
                                                6) Enjoy the result.
                                                [[I then went back to adjust color/hue sat and changed color to a pale pink
                                                However this just produced what appears to be line art. It is not shaded like an
                                                emobssed image produced in Photoshop.It seems that moving the pisels
                                                didn't have any effect.]]

                                                Am I missing a step somewhere?

                                                Thanks for trying to help.
                                                Fine tune the offset if necessary. Play by adding
                                                blurs or something. Accept the fact that simple math often helps :-)



                                                --

                                                .
                                                • 21. Re: Emboss Isn't  Working
                                                  Level 7
                                                  On Wed, 26 Mar 2008 21:07:42 +0300, Lorva <webforumsuser@macromedia.com>
                                                  wrote:

                                                  > Hi Ilya,
                                                  >
                                                  > Thanks for posting your images. . The first one looks like what I can
                                                  > do in
                                                  > photoshop. The 2nd looks more like line art that I have tried. The 3rd
                                                  > one was
                                                  > the same file name as the 2nd so I couldn't tell what you meant there.

                                                  Oops, sorry. Obviously, it was supposed to be emboss3.png rather than
                                                  emboss1.png :-)

                                                  > 3) Select the upper copy, in the "Properties" panel choose Effects - >
                                                  > [[when duplicating the image it now becomes the lower image,
                                                  > not the upper so I assume it should be the lower one as the
                                                  > upper has
                                                  > no effect]]

                                                  No it *MUST* be upper copy. Check out again my emboss2.png example - it is
                                                  the upper bitmap that have "Invert" effect used and transparency set to
                                                  50%. Even on the layer panel it's preview look like green rose (that is,
                                                  colors are inverted). There is no use to change the opacity or anything of
                                                  lower copy once it is completely covered with 100% opaque upper copy.

                                                  You may even place the copy into another layer above starting one to avoid
                                                  confusion. In any case, the copy we are processing with "Invert" and
                                                  opacity change should be ON THE TOP. (Well, from pure math point of view,
                                                  the may apply "Invert" and/or offset to the bottom bitmap and achieve the
                                                  same results, but the one with 50% opacity MUST be the top one, for the
                                                  reason I mentioned).

                                                  > Adjust color - > Invert. Now you see the negative of your image.
                                                  > 4) With the upper (inverted) copy still selected, change it's
                                                  > transparency to
                                                  > 50%.
                                                  > [[ I assume you meant opacity so I changed the opacity of the lower
                                                  > image]]

                                                  Oh yes, it is really opacity in FW rather than transparency, my mistake.
                                                  Not a big deal actually, since 50% transparency is equal to 50% opacity
                                                  anyway :-)

                                                  --
                                                  Ilya Razmanov
                                                  http://photoshop.msk.ru - Photoshop plug-in filters
                                                  • 22. Re: Emboss Isn't  Working
                                                    Level 7
                                                    On Thu, 27 Mar 2008 15:27:16 +0300, Ilya Razmanov <ilyich@ioc.ac.ru> wrote:

                                                    > No it *MUST* be upper copy. Check out again my emboss2.png example - it
                                                    > is the upper bitmap that have "Invert" effect used and transparency set
                                                    > to 50%. Even on the layer panel it's preview look like green rose (that
                                                    > is, colors are inverted).

                                                    Here goes the screen capture fragment:

                                                    http://photoshop.msk.ru/private/emboss-scr.jpg

                                                    I used another example image but I guess you can easily see which on of
                                                    the bitmaps is inverted and have 50% opacity.

                                                    --
                                                    Ilya Razmanov
                                                    http://photoshop.msk.ru - Photoshop plug-in filters