33 Replies Latest reply on Jun 10, 2018 6:47 AM by fotoroeder

    Muse and cookies

    nilsl73690887

      Does anyone have a cookie tool for me which I can implement in muse? The problem is that in the EU every user has the right to choose whether he would like to activate cookies on the visited website or not. It basically means that the tool has to deactivate all cookies at first and activate them only when the user gives his permission.

       

      Seems not logic but that´s the new EU law.

       

      Thanks

       

      Nils

        • 1. Re: Muse and cookies
          Nancy OShea Adobe Community Professional & MVP

          The new GDPR ePrivacy regulations are more far reaching than just cookies and  analytics.    See my post from a few days ago for more information on how this effects everyone and what other businesses are doing to comply

          New Cookie & Privacy Policy

           

           

          Nancy

           

          • 2. Re: Muse and cookies
            nilsl73690887 Level 1

            That´s not the answer to my question.... My question was which tools I can use to prevent cookies on doing their job if the user decides to disable them.

            • 3. Re: Muse and cookies
              Nancy OShea Adobe Community Professional & MVP

              Did you look at the links in my other post?  

              GDPR and ePrivacy compliant online tracking | Cookiebot

               

              Here's another JS script that's plug & play but I don't know how GDPR compliant it is.

              https://cookie-bar.eu/

              • 4. Re: Muse and cookies
                fotoroeder Adobe Community Professional

                As far as I know each user has to do this by themself, being directed to a certain page from google or disabling cookies in their own browser settings.

                For Germany there´s a Browser-Plugin to download available and some installation: http://tools.google.com/dlpage/gaoptout?hl=de.

                Of course this might be different for each country/language.

                Hope that´s more of an answer you are searching for?

                 

                Best Regards,

                Uwe

                • 5. Re: Muse and cookies
                  fotoroeder Adobe Community Professional

                  Have no idea how one should put the code from "cookie bar" into a muse website.

                  Would be nice from Nancy OShea to tell that as well. Just the code won´t help most Musers, I guess.

                  Cookiebot needs some payment - not sure how that would help Musers either.

                   

                  One should best ask a "Data Protection Officer" in order to get the right links.

                  I recommend at this state to let users know, that there are cookies possibly set, and if they want to disable, lead them to an additional page with your detailed data protection where you could/should tell them those links, mentioned above.

                   

                  Best Regards,

                  Uwe

                  • 6. Re: Muse and cookies
                    nilsl73690887 Level 1

                    Thank you for the tools,

                     

                    unfortunately there are still problems.

                     

                    By using a cookie searcher I figured out that both tools are unable to disable all cookies by default.

                    As far as I know it is necessary that all cookies are deactivated before someone is entering the site.

                    But what about necessary cookies?

                    • 7. Re: Muse and cookies
                      nilsl73690887 Level 1

                      Update:

                       

                      I recently talked with cookie-bar.eu. Unfortunately their tool is not capable of disabling cookies by default. It basically means that tool number one from nancy is completely useless.

                      • 8. Re: Muse and cookies
                        fotoroeder Adobe Community Professional

                        There are two types of cookies:

                        Transient Cookies (temporarily Cookies)

                        Persistent Cookies (limited in time Cookies)

                        The transistent ones get deleted automatically after leaving the site/the browser.

                        The persistent ones must be deleted by the user themselves from time to time.

                         

                        There´s no way to avoid cookies, I`m afraid. Beside the fact, that one can visit the site:  http://tools.google.com/dlpage/gaoptout?hl=de.  like I mentioned in my above post before as well.

                         

                        Best Regards,

                        Uwe

                        1 person found this helpful
                        • 9. Re: Muse and cookies
                          David Asch Adobe Community Professional

                          The regulations of GDPR require that you declare your use of cookies, based on the original EU Cookie Consent Law. If you don’t have the facility to deactivate the site's cookies using the tool - this is not always an option, especially in Muse - you must at least give your visitors a link to how to block them from their device. This would usually be in your privacy policy, which most cookie pop ups give you the option to do.

                           

                          David

                          Creative Muse

                          • 10. Re: Muse and cookies
                            Nancy OShea Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                            Below is a tool to find out which cookies your site uses and where they come from,

                            Check which cookies a site uses - Cookie-checker.com

                             

                            Instead of disabling cookies after the fact (which is almost impossible), why not  make a plain vanilla, cookie-free home page that contains no analytics, no social media, no persistent sessions & no 3rd party cookies.    After people see your cookie statement & hit the  I AGREE button, a cookie should be invoked to remember their consent.

                            1 person found this helpful
                            • 11. Re: Muse and cookies
                              fotoroeder Adobe Community Professional

                              Thanks Nancy,

                              I checked now only eight from sites, I have done with muse and found no cookies. But there´s no form to collect any data, but google maps, so that might be one point to avoid cookies.

                               

                              Best Regards,

                              Uwe

                              • 12. Re: Muse and cookies
                                Nancy OShea Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                Anything from Google -- maps, calendars, docs, analytics -- will probably add cookies. 

                                • 13. Re: Muse and cookies
                                  fotoroeder Adobe Community Professional

                                  You may check:  http://susannewoerz.de/wann-und-wo.html  and check the site with cookie checker – it does not find any cookie.

                                  If you say, google places cookies, it leads to, if cookie checker is reliable?

                                   

                                  Uwe

                                  • 14. Re: Muse and cookies
                                    Nancy OShea Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                    Are you using private keys with your Google widgets?

                                    • 15. Re: Muse and cookies
                                      fotoroeder Adobe Community Professional

                                      Found out, that one has to check on "every" page as the free version from: Online Cookie Audit tells that the free version only checks the "homepage" and so does  cookie-checker.com and checking the page I mentioned above you are right, it places one cookie:

                                      Bildschirmfoto 2018-06-08 um 23.03.13.png

                                      Best Regards,

                                      Uwe

                                      • 16. Re: Muse and cookies
                                        fotoroeder Adobe Community Professional

                                        https://forums.adobe.com/people/Nancy+OShea  schrieb

                                         

                                        Are you using private keys with your Google widgets?

                                        Yes, but I know I have to change this quite quickly to this API stuff or use Günters advice.

                                         

                                        Best Regards,

                                        Uwe

                                        • 17. Re: Muse and cookies
                                          Ussnorway Adobe Community Professional

                                          nilsl73690887  wrote

                                           

                                          As far as I know it is necessary that all cookies are deactivated before someone is entering the site.

                                           

                                          this is not correct

                                          1 person found this helpful
                                          • 18. Re: Muse and cookies
                                            fotoroeder Adobe Community Professional

                                            Ussnorway  schrieb

                                             

                                            nilsl73690887   wrote

                                             

                                            As far as I know it is necessary that all cookies are deactivated before someone is entering the site.

                                             

                                            this is not correct

                                            Yes, I think so true (that this is not correct) – you have to inform users, that that are cookies – and if one wants to avoid these, one must take care by themselves by checking presets of their own browser and so on. "My" google maps cookie is mentioned in privacy policy in an extra paragraph, so it is more, that everybody should know about, what google maps may know about him or not. So if you don´t want google to know your location you must take care of your mobile phone or desktop phone by yourself. But of course you won`t be able to let google maps navigate you to a certain point.

                                             

                                            Best Regards,

                                            Uwe 

                                            • 19. Re: Muse and cookies
                                              Ussnorway Adobe Community Professional

                                              you have to tell if you use | sell | give those cookies to a 3rd party like Google or Microsoft i.e, some other use than just making your website

                                              • 20. Re: Muse and cookies
                                                fotoroeder Adobe Community Professional

                                                Ussnorway  schrieb

                                                 

                                                you have to tell if you use | sell | give those cookies to a 3rd party like Google or Microsoft i.e, some other use than just making your website

                                                Do I "give" my google maps cookie to google? In most of the GDPR / DSGVO writings about that google maps, it is just written, that google maps is used , that google is the owner of google maps, some details about, if you use an google account and so on:

                                                 

                                                Google Maps

                                                 

                                                Unsere Webseite benutzt Google Maps zur Darstellung von Karten und zur Erstellung von Anfahrtsplänen.

                                                Google Maps wird von Google Inc., 1600 Amphitheatre Parkway, Mountain View, CA 94043, USA betrieben.

                                                 

                                                Durch den Besuch auf der Webseite erhält Google Informationen darüber, dass Sie die entsprechende Seite unseres Webauftrittes aufgerufen haben. Dies erfolgt auch unabhängig davon, ob sie ein Nutzerkonto bei Google haben oder über dieses eingeloggt sind. Für den  Fall, dass sie während der Nutzung der Webseite über ein Nutzerkonto von Google eingeloggt sind, werden die Daten direkt ihrem Benutzerkonto zugeordnet. Wenn Sie dies nicht wünschen, so müssen Sie sich vor Nutzung des Dienstes ausloggen.

                                                 

                                                Durch die Nutzung von Google Maps erklären Sie sich mit der Erfassung, Bearbeitung sowie der Nutzung der automatisch erhobenen sowie der von Ihnen eingegeben Daten durch Google und ggf. von Drittanbieter einverstanden. Die Nutzungsbedingungen für Google Maps finden Sie unter Nutzungsbedingungen für Google Maps. Ausführliche Details finden Sie unter google.de: Transparenz und Wahlmöglichkeiten sowie Datenschutzbestimmungen. Das Ihnen zustehende Widerspruchsrecht müssen Sie direkt gegenüber Google ausüben. Über Ihre Browsereinstellungen können Sie den Google Maps-Dienst deaktivieren (Deaktivierung des JavaScripts im Browser). Eine Nutzung ist dann nicht mehr möglich.

                                                • 21. Re: Muse and cookies
                                                  pziecina Level 6

                                                  fotoroeder  wrote

                                                   

                                                  Über Ihre Browsereinstellungen können Sie den Google Maps-Dienst deaktivieren (Deaktivierung des JavaScripts im Browser). Eine Nutzung ist dann nicht mehr möglich.

                                                  If someone followed this instruction, then it is likely that most websites now would stop functioning or displaying correctly. Anything created with Muse, and most frameworks such as Bootstrap require javascript to work and/or display correctly.

                                                   

                                                  So not really a solution if someone does not wish cookies from Google, (though a number of others do the same, e.g. facebook feeds)

                                                  • 22. Re: Muse and cookies
                                                    Ussnorway Adobe Community Professional

                                                    If your site has a Google map then yes the user "gives" their cookie to Google

                                                     

                                                    The GDPR / DSGVO writings was made by a pluck a duck that has no clue what makes the internet work and thats why it is a bs rule but the basic idea was to stop places using peoples data for other things without their knowledge

                                                     

                                                    For real life example take the Social services in Australia; They use a phone run-voice recognition system that records if the user says "yes or no" in certain key points to get their dole payments... What most Australians don't know is that recording is kept and used to make a large database of peoples voices

                                                     

                                                    Its not as unique as a fingerprint but it does help companies making dictaphone software and its done without peoples permission so that would be a problem if Australia cared about GDPR

                                                    • 23. Re: Muse and cookies
                                                      fotoroeder Adobe Community Professional

                                                      pziecina  schrieb

                                                       

                                                      fotoroeder   wrote

                                                       

                                                      Über Ihre Browsereinstellungen können Sie den Google Maps-Dienst deaktivieren (Deaktivierung des JavaScripts im Browser). Eine Nutzung ist dann nicht mehr möglich.

                                                      If someone followed this instruction, then it is likely that most websites now would stop functioning or displaying correctly. Anything created with Muse, and most frameworks such as Bootstrap require javascript to work and/or display correctly.

                                                       

                                                      So not really a solution if someone does not wish cookies from Google, (though a number of others do the same, e.g. facebook feeds)

                                                      Yes, that´s what quite obvious and that´s what they say –Eine Nutzung ist dann nicht mehr moeglich – means you cannot use google maps anymore –, if one does not want get tracked by google, turns google off, one cannot use google maps.

                                                       

                                                      Uwe

                                                      • 24. Re: Muse and cookies
                                                        fotoroeder Adobe Community Professional

                                                        Ussnorway  schrieb

                                                         

                                                        If your site has a Google map then yes the user "gives" their cookie to Google

                                                         

                                                        The GDPR / DSGVO writings was made by a pluck a duck that has no clue what makes the internet work and thats why it is a bs rule but the basic idea was to stop places using peoples data for other things without their knowledge

                                                         

                                                        For real life example take the Social services in Australia; They use a phone run-voice recognition system that records if the user says "yes or no" in certain key points to get their dole payments... What most Australians don't know is that recording is kept and used to make a large database of peoples voices

                                                         

                                                        Its not as unique as a fingerprint but it does help companies making dictaphone software and its done without peoples permission so that would be a problem if Australia cared about GDPR

                                                        Incredible, that´s why we have now GDPR/DSGVO, in my country the "POST" (mailing company) gave addresses in a way to political parties, to let them know, how they elect probably, to do some more ads in that streets where people elected different to make them elect "better". Mr. Zuckerberg was again "very sorry" that FB Cambridge Analytica was able to get data from FB (at the European Comission).

                                                        Finally it is our fault, isn`t it?

                                                         

                                                        Uwe

                                                        • 25. Re: Muse and cookies
                                                          pziecina Level 6

                                                          fotoroeder  wrote

                                                           

                                                          Yes, that´s what quite obvious and that´s what they say –Eine Nutzung ist dann nicht mehr moeglich – means you cannot use google maps anymore –, if one does not want get tracked by google, turns google off, one cannot use google maps.

                                                           

                                                          Uwe

                                                          You misunderstand my point. If you turn javascript off in a browser then for the average user, (and everyone using mobile devices) it is a global setting that turns it off for all web pages/sites, not just for the use of Google maps.

                                                           

                                                          Many things like menus, carousels, accordions and external video/audio feeds would also disabled for most web sites, as they use javascript to function. Yes one can just use html and css for everything mentioned except external content, but not many small sites do, (and certainly not Muse or many frameworks) so for none coders like many Muse users, it would be almost impossible to present the end user with a working and functional page/site.

                                                           

                                                          Even inserting replacement content in pages, for those who do not want to accept cookies, requires custom javascript.

                                                          • 26. Re: Muse and cookies
                                                            fotoroeder Adobe Community Professional

                                                            I see. Thanks to make that clear.

                                                            But what´s so terrible about javascript? Is this dangerous in that sense, that this allows not only google to track users?

                                                            You may realize by my question, that I´m a strict non-coder .

                                                             

                                                            Uwe

                                                            • 27. Re: Muse and cookies
                                                              pziecina Level 6

                                                              Just done a quick check, and all the browsers and devices I looked at do have a setting for disabling cookies, including separate setting to disable all cookies or just cookies from 3rd party sites.

                                                               

                                                              So instead of disabling javascript, telling users to use the 'disable cookies' (all, or just 3rd party) function in their browser setting would be a better and simpler option.

                                                              • 28. Re: Muse and cookies
                                                                pziecina Level 6

                                                                To set a cookie requires javascript to 'write' the cookie to the users browser. Javascript itself, (at least in modern browsers) is no longer the security problem it was in the late 90's and early 00's.

                                                                 

                                                                The big problem I see for Muse users, (and similar products such as diy site creators) is that there is no way to use custom javascript to replace any content that would have written a cookie to the users browser. Which would probably leave the end user just seeing a blank space on the page, where that content should be.

                                                                 

                                                                For a coder not using a product like or similar to Muse, this is not a problem, as they just check if the cookies are consented to or not. If they are not, then one just uses javascript to insert alternative content.

                                                                 

                                                                e.g. - To replace Google maps, one would just write javascript to insert an image, (possibly a static map) and the full address of the location with postal code / zip code / plz. That way the end user could at least use a gps/sat-nav, (or even a good old fashioned street map) to find the location.

                                                                • 29. Re: Muse and cookies
                                                                  fotoroeder Adobe Community Professional

                                                                  As a designer, I would insert an image as well from a simple screenshot. Together with the address like you suggest.

                                                                   

                                                                  Best Regards,

                                                                  Uwe

                                                                  • 30. Re: Muse and cookies
                                                                    Nancy OShea Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                                    pziecina  wrote

                                                                     

                                                                    fotoroeder   wrote

                                                                     

                                                                    Über Ihre Browsereinstellungen können Sie den Google Maps-Dienst deaktivieren (Deaktivierung des JavaScripts im Browser). Eine Nutzung ist dann nicht mehr möglich.

                                                                    If someone followed this instruction, then it is likely that most websites now would stop functioning or displaying correctly.

                                                                    Disabling JS is no solution.   I use a <noscript> tag to issue a warning when JS is blocked. 

                                                                    • 31. Re: Muse and cookies
                                                                      fotoroeder Adobe Community Professional

                                                                      Sounds obvious to me.

                                                                      In my opinion either javascrpt nor cookies are the real issues with that GDPR/DSGVO.

                                                                      Mainly this belongs to shops, social media and huge companies which may have an economic interest in tracking their customers.

                                                                      "Normal" websites that are for showcase reasons, show own work, like my example with a physiotherapist or a craftsman company,

                                                                      must inform users that there are cookies and that´s it.

                                                                      Most important is the question what kind of data the website owner collects overall and who in the company/in the doctors office treats that data. Even if now the user has a right that he could be "deleted", some data cannot be deleted like all tax data for example or data from the doctor to look for history of patients and even data from a craftsman, they must keep some data for guarantee/warranty reasons and stuff.

                                                                      To keep data safe and to strictly avoid to handout that data to anybody outside should be quite common sense.

                                                                      and It was illegal before that GDPR/DSGVO as well, wasn`t it?

                                                                       

                                                                      Best Regards,

                                                                      Uwe

                                                                      • 32. Re: Muse and cookies
                                                                        pziecina Level 6

                                                                        Looking through the solution for cookies, (acceptance by the user of not) on a number of the major U/K companies web sites, the solution they are using is to present a fixed position overlay on the site/page that remains in place on all pages untill the user accepts cookies, after which the overlay disapears.

                                                                         

                                                                        If cookies are not accepted the overlay remains in place, but the user can in most cases still use the site, but not all features are usable, (e.g. You cannot log-in). I have not found any major company using Google maps though, as they all appear to just use an image with the address below/above, or placed in the image using css shapes in some cases.

                                                                        • 33. Re: Muse and cookies
                                                                          fotoroeder Adobe Community Professional

                                                                          Thanks for the google maps hint. Sounds like a very good workaround-solution.

                                                                          On the other hand I found a lot of websites in Germany, using google maps, I get a hint to hold CMD pressed in order to "move" the map.

                                                                          Thanks,

                                                                          Uwe