13 Replies Latest reply on Aug 5, 2018 9:20 PM by DavePinMinn

    Lightroom 7.3.1 & 7.4 get increasingly SLOW...

    DavePinMinn Level 1

      I wasn't going to post this 'cause it usually gets blamed on any OTHER than Lightroom, but it's bad enough I figure I may as well throw it out there...

       

      Windows 10 Pro 5820, nVidia 970 GTX, 32 GB DDR4 memory, O/S, cache, temp, catalog on a 1TB SSD, images on pair of internal 5TB,7200 rpm drives in RAID 0.

       

      Graphics card has been on AND off.  Makes no difference.

      Automatically write XMP is NEVER on.

      Catalog is around 70,000 images, regularly optimized.

      Sync is always OFF.

      Preview size is set to the size of the monitor (auto).

      Have imported with Embedded & Sidecar AND Standard previews.  Makes no difference.

      Have imported as normal .NEF files AND have converted to dng at import.  Makes no difference.

      Have TRIED a SEPARATE catalog with only a few thousand images ON AN SSD.  Makes no difference.

      Have used smaller Nikon D810 images AND larger Nikon D850 images.  Makes no difference.

      As near as I can tell there are NO interesting errors in the Windows logs - I get the periodic ESENT information entry (like everybody else), and the BTHUSB warning periodically (again, like a significant percentage of Windows users).  NOTHING in either application or system that indicates any problem.

       

      Start Lightroom (btw: at startup, before touching a single key or image, LR typically uses 5+ GB of memory - I presume this is normal with the current version).  Select a dozen images in Library and hit the space bar to display the images filling the center screen.  Rapidly hit the right arrow to walk through the images and make sure they're loaded.  Then take a quick look at each image to make sure the subject hasn't moved.

      If set is good, send them to Helicon Focus if it's a focus stack, or do a Lightroom Photo Merge if it's a panorama or HDR.

      Rename the output image so I know which set it is.

      Select the next set and repeat.  Sets may be anywhere from 3 images to 20+.  Near as I can tell, makes no difference.

       

      Occasionally, take an image into Develop and make a few simple, gross adjustments just to see if it's worth keeping.

       

      So, do basic culling and checking plain, ordinary images - the same kind everybody out here (I suspect) has thousands of.  The kind of light operation that should be extremely fast - no heavy editing, no large number of steps in history, no using brushes or anything else that's always been painfully slow.

       

      I suspect it has nothing to do with focus stacks or anything else - if I go through a day's shots from an Air Show - maybe 2000-2500, the same thing happens as I move back and forth, viewing in grid or in loupe, occasionally switching to 1:1.

      --------------

      It DOESN'T appear to be linear, but checking the process display in Task Manager periodically I can see the memory used by Lightroom increase.  Usually within a half hour it'll be at 11GB or more, and I've seen it in excess of 16GB.  I'm NOT sure which operations cause the big jumps in memory used.  But as near as I can tell, it never gives up any of the memory 'til I shut it down, or crash if I'm lucky when it won't exit, or crash the whole system a few times when it wasn't possible to do ANYTHING else.

       

      As I repeat the culling operation, Lightroom slows down.  With 10 - 30 minutes, even an action as simple has pressing the arrow key to move to the next thumbnail in the grid display gets VERY slow - more than a second.  Setting a color label is even SLOWER, and if you select the thumbnail, hit the key for the label and move BEFORE it eventually changes the color label (which may be anywhere from 1 to several seconds), it'll change whatever image the cursor is on rather than the one you were trying to change - it's that slow.  I have had images for which I selected the filename in the metadata tab in the library and had LR sit there and spin for a VERY long time - well in excess of 10 seconds BEFORE it actually selects the filename.  Same thing for selecting "File" from the file menu to try and shut LR down cleanly - once it gets really slow it'll sit there with the blue circle spinning for a very long time before the menu opens.

       

      EVENTUALLY, figure somewhere around 30 minutes for 7.4, and maybe 45 - 60 minutes for 7.3.1, Lightroom loses it's mind - there's another topic I entered about the "Lightroom chaos" with 7.4.  It's bad enough that I reverted to 7.3.1, which SEEMS to take a little longer to go crazy, but gets just as slow, just as quickly.  I'd put a link to the other topic if I had any idea how.

       

      Generally, to avoid the chaos condition, I shut down Lightroom when it ALMOST gets to the not responding at ALL condition.  If I Select Develop with an image, and it STILL hasn't switched to the Develop screen in 5 - 6 SECONDS, it's time to shut down.  Or if I select a half dozen images and try to have Lightroom do a panorama or HDR.

       

      I KNOW it didn't exhibit this behavior with ANY of these images PRIOR to 7.0, but I'm not sure WHEN in the various V7 versions this got bad enough to be a major impediment to editing.  Most of the early versions of V7 were just slow ALL the time so I don't know if they also got increasingly slow, but I believe from 7.2 forward it's been significant and very perceptible.

       

      AND, FWIW, EXACTLY the same thing happens with the laptop, but it's slower to begin with (i7-6700, 16GB of memory GTX 970, O/S, catalog, cache on an SSD) and the images are on an external, 7200 rpm, 6TB HDD so I figured I'd see if the same thing happens on the much faster desktop.  It does.

       

      Anybody have any useful ideas for things to try?

        • 1. Re: Lightroom 7.3.1 & 7.4 get increasingly SLOW...
          DavePinMinn Level 1

          Hm...  Does the deafening silence mean I'm the only one seeing this?  'Cause I'm currently on the road and the laptop does exactly the same thing.  Starts fine, slows down, doesn't use as MUCH memory 'cause it doesn't have as much, eventually has to have Lightroom shut down and restarted when it gets to over a second to set a color label or view a different image...

          • 2. Re: Lightroom 7.3.1 & 7.4 get increasingly SLOW...
            Just Shoot Me Adobe Community Professional

            Try disabling the AV program you are using and run some tests. I opened LR C CC V7.4 about 2.5 hours ago and viewed about 1000 images. Initially memory usage was 1.5 GBs +/- then rose to about 3.9 GBs and stayed there.

             

            This is on Win 7. So it seems something else is making LR Eat memory or something else is eating memory and blaming it on LR. The only thing comes to mind is an AV program that is constantly scanning files.

            • 3. Re: Lightroom 7.3.1 & 7.4 get increasingly SLOW...
              DavePinMinn Level 1

              As far as I know, the only anti-virus running on the laptop, which is Windows 10, is Windows Defender.  I can turn off the "real-time protection", but as near as I can find (my Internet searches have been utterly useless in finding out how to actually turn off any of the Windows Defender services), that's all I can shut down...

               

              Just out of curiosity, why would an AV care in the least about a program that's not touching a network, isn't downloading anything, and is just viewing and modifying images?

               

              I'll try this shortly and see if it makes a difference.

              • 4. Re: Lightroom 7.3.1 & 7.4 get increasingly SLOW...
                Jao vdL Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                Just out of curiosity, why would an AV care in the least about a program that's not touching a network, isn't downloading anything, and is just viewing and modifying images?

                AV software also checks files that get modified on your hard disk. Every edit you make modifies the catalog file. Some badly written AV software (almost all of them in other words) will check the catalog file every time to see if the read/write activity wasn't malicious. Also every time an updated preview gets written out it gets checked. This can lead to bad performance for software that does lots of disk write access such as Lightroom. Generally you want to exclude the Lightroom catalog and the preview database from the AV scanner. I am pretty sure windows defender has an option for this but not being a windows user I don't know where to find this.

                • 5. Re: Lightroom 7.3.1 & 7.4 get increasingly SLOW...
                  DavePinMinn Level 1

                  Aha...  Thanks for the response.  I have no idea if Windows Defender has a way to exclude some files - I can't even figure out how to shut down the Windows Defender services.  The only thing I COULD do was turn off real-time checking.

                  • 6. Re: Lightroom 7.3.1 & 7.4 get increasingly SLOW...
                    DavePinMinn Level 1

                    With whatever is shut off in the AV, I've gone through a bunch of images this morning. 

                     

                    At startup it was about 1.5GB and it's grown to about 6.4 GB, but so far, LR hasn't become unusably slow.

                     

                    But, there are few differences from "normal".  These couple thousand images are about a 50/50 mix of D500 (small) and D850 (larger) images, I'm using a very small catalog (on an SSD) rather than my normal image catalog, and all the IMAGES were moved to an SSD before importing.  SO, it's not the same environment as normal editing.

                     

                    I"ll keep messing about with the Windows Defender real-time protection off and see what happens, but it's going to "annoy" me a LOT if this is being caused by some overzealous piece of software that's part of Windows 10.

                     

                    BTW:  So far I haven't been able to find any way to tell Windows defender NOT to mess with things in Lightroom OR to not look at files on the image disks.

                    • 7. Re: Lightroom 7.3.1 & 7.4 get increasingly SLOW...
                      DavePinMinn Level 1

                      At home on the desktop I tried some tests to see if Windows Defender was causing the symptoms I see. 

                      Rebooted the desktop, turned off real-time protection, shut off the firewall, and unplugged from the Internet access point.

                      Started the task manager and the resource monitor.  Then started Lightroom.

                       

                      At startup, LR used 2740 MB of memory, increasing to 5400MB.  This is on a small catalog running on an SSD - not the normal image catalog.

                      Imported 2300 medium images from the D850 (31megapixel so only 35MB each) having it "Add" them and create standard previews.

                       

                      Memory usage jumped to approximately 12500MB.

                       

                      Did normal culling - examining groups of images in loupe view, zooming in to 1:1, walking through images with the arrow keys while in 1:1, exporting some groups to Helicon for processing and returning the output to Lightroom.

                       

                      During this culling memory increased to 15400MB

                       

                      In Develop I set

                       

                      During the import and when a result was returned from Helicon Focus a LARGE amount of disk activity occurred, much of it being from cache reading files of either 6208 or 5192 bytes.  This continued long after an image was re-imported into Lightroom from Helicon Focus.

                       

                      Lightroom memory usage stayed around 15000 MB.

                       

                      In Develop, set lens corrections, turned off sharpening, adjusted noise, treatment set to camera standard, white balance to daylight.  Synched all 2300 images during which memory jumped to approximately 17600MB then went back down to 15400MB.  Time to sync the settings on all 2300 images was approximately 16 seconds.

                       

                      In library, selected all 2300 images and set "Auto" for tone.  Time for 2300 images approximately 3 seconds.

                       

                      Continued culling - moved through thumbnails vertically with the arrow keys extremely fast.  Switching rows, selecting groups of images, changing rating, moving to another row, repeat a couple dozen times - NO LAG.

                       

                      Using left/right arrow to move through filmstrip - no preceptible lag.

                       

                      Discarded all 1:1 previews.  In library with side palettes open, viewing images at 1:1, using arrow keys to move between images, time to load 1:1 previews averaged 3.5 seconds for the 80-90 images I tested.

                       

                      Memory usage appeared stable at around 14880MB during all this.

                       

                      Shut Lightroom down...

                       

                      ------------------

                       

                      Reconnected to the Internet.  Turned on WD real-time, and turned on all firewall settings.

                       

                      Imported 300 NEW D850 images from a DIFFERENT location so guaranteed no residual 1:1 previews or any artifacts.  Again, used "Add" and standard previews.  During import memory increased to 13500MB.

                       

                      Walked through images using arrow keys in loupe view, zooming to 1:1.  TIME TO LOAD 1:1 PREVIEWS DID NOT INCREASE.  Movement through images continued to be extremely fast with no slowdown.  Movement through thumbnails continued to be quick.

                       

                      As NEAR AS I CAN TELL, in the hour or so that I played with both the previous 2300 images imported and the newer 300 imported, (viewing, zooming, moving, exporting to Helicon, etc) there was no evident slowdown.......................................

                       

                      Other than gobbling up almost 16GB of memory and not giving it back (which I presume was because nothing else needed it so I'm not sure it's a problem), as near as I can tell, the successively worse slowdown I normally see did not happen.

                       

                      BUT - I then rebooted the system.  Left all of Windows Defender and everything else alone...  Just a normal reboot on a normal day, doing normal stuff.

                       

                      Started Lightroom.  Went back into the 300 newest images and started culling them.  Viewed images, in loupe view moving quickly through series.  Looked at some in 1:1.  Exported some sets to Helicon for processing and imported the results.  Repeat.  In short, EXACTLY the same process I normally follow, and the same as what I did when testing earlier.

                       

                      Within 30 minutes Lightroom was perceptibly slower, and by 40 minutes I had to shut it down and restart it as it was unusably unresponsive....

                       

                      AGAIN, purely anecdotal, but things APPEARED to be fine without Windows Defender.  They ALSO appeared to be fine WITH Windows Defender UNTIL I REBOOTED.

                       

                      Even though WD didn't APPEAR to cause a problem when restarted, I have installed a 3rd party antivirus, rebooted, and will try testing again this afternoon...

                       

                      Anybody have any ideas why doing a reboot would change anything?

                      • 8. Re: Lightroom 7.3.1 & 7.4 get increasingly SLOW...
                        Ian Lyons MVP & Adobe Community Professional

                        DavePinMinn  wrote

                         

                         

                        AGAIN, purely anecdotal, but things APPEARED to be fine without Windows Defender.  They ALSO appeared to be fine WITH Windows Defender UNTIL I REBOOTED.

                         

                        Even though WD didn't APPEAR to cause a problem when restarted, I have installed a 3rd party antivirus, rebooted, and will try testing again this afternoon...

                         

                        Anybody have any ideas why doing a reboot would change anything?

                         

                        I can't answer your question as I don't run Lr on a Windows computer. However, this link on Ms Windows site might give some guidance to work around the issue you describe.

                         

                         

                        Windows Defender Real Time Protection Service slowing down file access - Microsoft Community

                        • 9. Re: Lightroom 7.3.1 & 7.4 get increasingly SLOW...
                          DavePinMinn Level 1

                          Thanks for the reply Ian.  Yeah, I saw that post, but it's from October, 2016, and I figured FER SHER Microsoft would have fixed this in TWO YEARS...

                           

                          I'm in doing actual work, and I've shut down and restarted Lightroom twice in the last two hours 'cause it just gets totally unresponsive...  It can take 30 - 60 SECONDS for LR to go from Library to Develop.  Eventually, it gets there, but that's usually when I decide it's time to restart it 'cause the NEXT step is it totally locks up and chaos ensues.

                           

                          The folks at the Windows 10 forum are largely poo-pooing the very idea that it could be a Windows Defender problem, and given that I'm running Avast at the moment and Windows Defender (as far as I know) is off, I'd have to agree with them.

                           

                          I'm thinking I"m not going to get a solution to this one and Lightroom is just going to run like feces any time its in use more than about 30 minutes.

                           

                          Maybe the next time I blow away the whole system and reinstall Windows it'll fix it.

                          • 10. Re: Lightroom 7.3.1 & 7.4 get increasingly SLOW...
                            Ian Lyons MVP & Adobe Community Professional

                            DavePinMinn  wrote

                             

                             

                            Maybe the next time I blow away the whole system and reinstall Windows it'll fix it.

                             

                            If Avast is doing any real time monitoring then it's just as bad as the Ms Defender.

                             

                            As to Ms defender, I suggest you at leat try the procedure described.

                            • 11. Re: Lightroom 7.3.1 & 7.4 get increasingly SLOW...
                              Jao vdL Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                              DavePinMinn  wrote

                               

                              Thanks for the reply Ian.  Yeah, I saw that post, but it's from October, 2016, and I figured FER SHER Microsoft would have fixed this in TWO YEARS...

                              This is an unavoidable problem with doing the real-time protection thing. It has to scan the file before it lets an application access it. If it wouldn't, it wouldn't be protecting you. So if you have a type of application (and indeed the code compiling the link shows is a good example of that very similar to the type of access Lightroom does) that does lots of file access, you can immensely slow down the computer. This is why defender has the exclusion thing built in so you can turn the real time protection off for certain file types and certain directories. This is a fundamental tradeoff you have when running almost any kind of antivirus software. Very little Microsoft could do here except making their product less capable of detecting malware or adopting a radically different security model for their operating system which would break most software. So no surprise it hasn't been fixed as they likely do not consider it a bug.

                              • 12. Re: Lightroom 7.3.1 & 7.4 get increasingly SLOW...
                                DavePinMinn Level 1

                                Jao, I'll check, but I THINK I have exceptions for the top level folder for where ALL my images are stored, all the Lightroom catalogs, and where the cache is stored.  I'll go make sure.

                                • 13. Re: Lightroom 7.3.1 & 7.4 get increasingly SLOW...
                                  DavePinMinn Level 1

                                  There are exclusions in Windows Defender for the top level folder of the tree that holds all my images.  And an exception on the parent folder of the tree that holds all my catalogs even though they're on an SSD.  AND I've added one to the folder in which all the cache folders reside.  I don't see anything else I should exclude...

                                   

                                  This evening I waited a minute too long to kill Lightroom, and when I attempted to select 8 thumbnails, it went nuts.  Since the Resource monitor was sitting open I could see a HUGE amount of disk activity, not in cache or anything identifiable as part of Lightroom, but at least 25-30 files being read and written constantly by 3-4 processes.

                                   

                                  Unfortunately, I couldn't see anything from Lightroom as that process was in red in the resource monitor and it wasn't responding to anything.  Fortunately, I was able to End the task in the Task Manager this time so no blank, black screen.

                                   

                                  I'm suspicious that the gradually increasing slowdown is due to increasing disk activity, but it's very easy to tell when things start slowing down because image movement gets very laggy.  Even moving from one thumbnail to another can take 2-3 seconds.

                                   

                                  I'll see tomorrow if I can see any pattern, but I've now been watching a couple times and when Lightroom stops responding there's a WHOLE LOT of disk activity going on.  And nothing else on the system that I'm running is doing anything that would cause it.