20 Replies Latest reply on Feb 21, 2019 2:44 PM by R Neil Haugen

    Premiere Pro CC (13.0) changes

    R Neil Haugen Adobe Community Professional & MVP

      This is the release day for the new 13.x version of PrPro. Here's an Adobe blog link  ...

       

      New and enhanced features | Latest release of Premiere Pro CC

       

      I have a demo of doing a salvage color correction using the new Curves tooks in Lumetri here

       

      PremierePro CC 2019 Lumetri Curves Demo - YouTube

       

       

      And a blog post where I've posted some answers from Lars Borg, senior color engineer for Premiere Pro CC, on the new Preferences option to Enable Display Color Management ...

       

      Premiere Pro CC 2019 What does the Enable Display Color Management option … do? – rNeilphotog

       

      Neil 

        • 1. Re: Premiere Pro CC (13.0) changes
          R Neil Haugen Adobe Community Professional & MVP

          And check out Jarle Leirpoll's page ...

           

          Premierepro.net

           

          ... for his comments and his new book on making Mogrts, an excellent primer on creating motion graphics templates with specialized features for use in Premiere Pro.

           

          Neil

          • 2. Re: Premiere Pro CC (13.0) changes
            WaccaWacca Level 1

            Hi,

            looking forward to using the new color settings! In the preferences: Enable Display Color Management

            is grayed out for me :-(

             

            There is a little note saying that "this feature requires GPU acceleration"  which is wonderfully non-specific.

             

            Which GPU is required?

            thanks

            • 3. Re: Premiere Pro CC (13.0) changes
              MyerPj Level 4

              Excellent video R Neil Haugen, gave you the first like!

              • 4. Re: Premiere Pro CC (13.0) changes
                R Neil Haugen Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                Thanks ... I've never been a big curves fan, and especially with that big Elements panel on my desk I like the tools ported to that.

                 

                But those new curves make using the HSL panel unnecessary for many clips, and process faster.

                 

                They're some of the slickest curves I've used.

                 

                Neil

                • 5. Re: Premiere Pro CC (13.0) changes
                  R Neil Haugen Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                  13.x moves forward on gear supported for two reasons: manufacturers and the OSs have moved forward and trying to get stability they're removing extra code that is only used by a smaller percentage of total user base.

                   

                  I've seen the cutoff for 13, but don't recall precisely. Might be the 900 series for Nvidia. I know no 600 cards are supported.

                   

                  Neil

                  • 6. Re: Premiere Pro CC (13.0) changes
                    WaccaWacca Level 1

                    I'm using an NVIDIA GEFORCE RTX 2080.

                     

                    It seems to work for most things, e.g. rendering is quite happy with it but I was really hoping for Display Color Management to work :-(

                    I think I will post this as a separate topic as it might get a bit lost buried in here.

                     

                    mark

                    • 7. Re: Premiere Pro CC (13.0) changes
                      R Neil Haugen Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                      On a pc with good calibration of sRGB monitors set for video sRGB, you wouldn't see much change and might be not the right choice.

                       

                      This option will do the most for Macs with P3 monitors, help some with PCs with certain monitor setups.

                       

                      I don't know that card, and am at Max so just on my phone.

                       

                      Neil

                      • 8. Re: Premiere Pro CC (13.0) changes
                        WaccaWacca Level 1

                        Neil,  I'm testing out now.

                        franciscrossman suggested an nvidia driver update and that all worked.

                        enjoy MAX, I'm virtually there

                        • 9. Re: Premiere Pro CC (13.0) changes
                          mike@citizenfilm.org Level 1

                          Neil, thanks for the helpful posts. Can you confirm something for me? I think I understand, but am not quite sure.

                           

                          1) I'm running Premiere on an iMac Retina 5k set to its default color profile. When I enable "Enable Display Color Management" within Premiere, the Premiere viewers are now compensating for the iMac's color profile, so that what I see in the Source and Program windows are Rec 709. Is that right?

                           

                          2) In the above scenario, am I looking at Gamma 2.2 or Gamma 2.4 within Premiere?

                          • 10. Re: Premiere Pro CC (13.0) changes
                            R Neil Haugen Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                            Pr is attempting to adapt the internal monitor displays to the Mac P3, but some other users have reported varying success rates with this to "pretty ... ok ... " to " ... um ... not a help ... ".

                             

                            The best results have been had by folks going into their Mac OS display settings and finding the Rec.709 settting, and using that.

                             

                            Pr is working internally assuming gamma 2.4.

                             

                            Neil

                            • 11. Re: Premiere Pro CC (13.0) changes
                              mike@citizenfilm.org Level 1

                              Ok, thank you. So "Enable Display Color Management" means that Premiere is noting that my iMac is running a P3 profile, and then at least trying to compensate for that in order to show me Rec 709 within Premiere.

                               

                              When I do this, and I also enable "Use Mac Display Color Profiles" in Resolve, with Rec 709 2.4 projects, I get very similar color between Resolve and Premiere, and pretty close to VLC. It doesn't match what I see in Quicktime or on Vimeo at all, but one battle at a time...

                              • 12. Re: Premiere Pro CC (13.0) changes
                                R Neil Haugen Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                That's where going to the Mac settings to go to Rec.709 would have effect. As you're still battling between a monitor in one space and some apps in another, some apps paying no attention to space (QuickTime player, Chrome, Safari).

                                 

                                Neil

                                • 13. Re: Premiere Pro CC (13.0) changes
                                  mike@citizenfilm.org Level 1

                                  At the risk of beating a dead horse, I want to make sure I really understand. I'm working on an iMac set to its default P3 color profile.

                                   

                                  The manual says : "To display accurate colors on any system, enable Display Color Management. It automatically converts colors to the color space of your display (including Rec. 709, Rec. 2020, and P3)."

                                   

                                  So, if I enable this feature, does it mean a) the Premiere windows are showing me P3 colors?

                                   

                                  Or is that b) Premiere is compensating for the P3 profile and showing me Rec 709?

                                   

                                   

                                  • 14. Re: Premiere Pro CC (13.0) changes
                                    R Neil Haugen Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                    It is attempting to do B.

                                     

                                    Pr isn't designed nor coded to work in P3, it is a massively different space. As another user here has reported, the image displayed even varies quite a bit between the various sizes of Mac P3 monitors ... each size has a slight but clear difference in the way it shows hue, gamma, and contrast.

                                     

                                    And don't worry about 'beating a dead horse' ... clarity & understanding are really needed here.

                                     

                                    And another thing needed here ... is for Pr to have the ability to allow users to tell it 1) what the media is for space, 2) what the monitor is for space, and 3) what space we want to work in and/or export into.

                                     

                                    Up until recently, there were only a very few things that needed Rec.2020, all b-cast was pure sRGB/Rec.709, and as web was "close enough" at image (not video) sRGB, it didn't matter. And one hoped one's monitor could actually cover at least 90% of video sRGB.

                                     

                                    Well ... more b-cast is going Rec.2020, thar be wide-gamut monitors and TVs in more and more places, and even the vastly wider dynamic-range DolbyVision is coming into b-cast use. It's wild & woolly out there for what each user may need to deliver in/for/to, and we really need more controls. It isn't going to get simpler.

                                     

                                    Neil

                                    • 15. Re: Premiere Pro CC (13.0) changes
                                      mike@citizenfilm.org Level 1

                                      Thanks so much for this, Neil. Now I see that if I set my iMac to Rec 709 2.4, that the image in Premiere doesn't change when I toggle that preference. If I set my iMac to P3, then the image does change when I toggle the preference. So maybe I'll leave the iMac at Rec 709 2.4 as you suggested. At least I know I'll be grading to Rec 709 (as far as my setup will allow) and then figure out an adjustment when needed for other displays.

                                       

                                      Interestingly, I think the equivalent setting in Resolve —"Use Mac Display Color Profiles for Viewers" —does the exact opposite — it makes its viewers P3 if the Mac display is set for P3. Similarly, if I set the Mac to Rec 709 2.4, toggling the option creates no difference.

                                      • 16. Re: Premiere Pro CC (13.0) changes
                                        R Neil Haugen Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                        I use the Davinci YRGB Color Managed Rec.709 Gamma 2.4 ... and I can move 10-bit files between the two meshing perfectly.

                                         

                                        I'm on a PC set for video sRGB/Rec.709 gamma 2.4 with an i1Pro puck/software setup. Bars/tones show identically on my confidence monitor in both apps.

                                         

                                        Pr scopes are unclamped, Waveform type set to YC or YC No Chroma ... and the little box on the bottom right next to "clamp" is set to 8-bit. All that "8-bit" option does is change the scaling on the scopes, now the right-side scale is showing proper video 16-235 numbers matched with 0-100 IRE on the left side. SMPTE color bars out of Resolve show the same scopes then as Pr ... first, the Resolve Waveform scope ...

                                        EBU Resolve Managed Waveform.PNG

                                         

                                        And now the Waveform YC No Chroma unclampled 8-bit in Pr ...

                                        EBU Bars Waveform in Premiere.PNG

                                         

                                        Again, the 8 Bit setting is only in charge of the scale numbers on the right-side. The options are 8 Bit, Float, and Rec.2020. It would be nice if they included a 10-bit option for scale display, but you just need to know if your media is 10 bit, those numbers on the right represent the same thing as shown in the Resove scale left-side above. I've requested 10-bit scale option in the Lumetri scopes ... and am hoping we get that someday.

                                         

                                        Pr's Lumetri effect internally handles all media in 32 bit float, and as some of the Legacy color tools are 8-bit, do NOT use any Legacy color tools that don't show the 32 bit and/or YUV lego-blocks in the Effects panel.

                                         

                                        And ... when you use say the RGB Parade and it's showing the 0-255 scale on the right side, that is intended to show how the image will be mapped to the monitor for display. It is NOT how Pr is "viewing" the media internally.

                                         

                                        Neil

                                        • 17. Re: Premiere Pro CC (13.0) changes
                                          mike@citizenfilm.org Level 1

                                          Great stuff, Neil. Thank you!

                                           

                                          Since you're a Resolve user, can you confirm that my understanding of its "Use Mac Display Color Profiles for Viewers" is correct - that it does the exact opposite of the equivalent Premiere option?

                                          • 18. Re: Premiere Pro CC (13.0) changes
                                            R Neil Haugen Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                            But I'm not a Mac user ... so, I can't tell you precisely what it does. I can only test out what I can do.

                                             

                                            Neil

                                            • 19. Re: Premiere Pro CC (13.0) changes
                                              mike@citizenfilm.org Level 1

                                              Ha ha, I should have read more closely. Thanks!

                                              • 20. Re: Premiere Pro CC (13.0) changes
                                                R Neil Haugen Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                Happy to help. This stuff is so freaking complex, isn't it? So everyone else is on a learning curve also, even colorists with years of experience. And ... the situation around us is always changing, gear, media, what people want to see ... so it's a bear to keep up.

                                                 

                                                Neil