11 Replies Latest reply on Nov 6, 2018 11:56 PM by Andreas_Vienna Paint

    Premiere sRGB graphics import show different results on different imacs

    Andreas_Vienna Paint Level 1

      When importing a sRGB graphic like a logo, it appears dramatically different (i.e. blues are desaturated) on my new iMacPro/Mojave 10.14/PR 2019 than on any other iMac inhouse, where the colors look perfectly like in PS and therefore "right".

      In a via ME exported clip the graphic elements also look different than ME export done on another Mac.

      Film colors are perfectly similar, problem is only with sRGB imported graphics. Graphics imported with NO profile assigned is also similar.

      Problem also appeared on my earlier system with MacPro and PR 2018, system was mirrored to new iMacPro.

      We are working with calibrated Eizo and Sony monitors for print and video post production.

      Thank you for any idea how this strange behaviour could be fixed.

        • 1. Re: Premiere sRGB graphics import show different results on different imacs
          R Neil Haugen Adobe Community Professional & MVP

          Have you tried either checking or unchecking the 'enable display color management' option in the preferences?

           

          And note, there is a slight difference between the sRGB non-tagged simple graphics/image file representation in the standards for that format, and sRGB video standards from Rec709. Black & white points would be the same, but small differences in contrast/tonality will be apparent. Segments will be lighter/darker in comparison due to some subtle curves-like differences in the format standards.

           

          Tagging those files in Photoshop as Rec 709-sRGB might fix that issue.

           

          Neil

          • 2. Re: Premiere sRGB graphics import show different results on different imacs
            Andreas_Vienna Paint Level 1

            Thank you Neil! "enable display color management" is the same on every mac. The difference between colors is really big. And all macs show "right" colors, like saved in PS with sRGB, only my system shows them "wrong", and I mean totally wrong, see picture, left is PR, right is PS.

            And that difference also occurs in the rendered mp4, so display color management should not be an issue.

            On other systems in my company they look perfectly the same.

            Screen Shot 2018-11-02 at 20.44.44.png

            Thank you again.

            Andreas

            • 4. Re: Premiere sRGB graphics import show different results on different imacs
              Wes Howell Adobe Employee

              Can you please clarify if Display Color Management is enabled or disabled?

              Also, what file formats are you working with?

               

              We currently interpret most formats as Rec709.  With Premiere 2019, we added color space management for the import of JPEGs, but it is not widely supported with most other still image formats.

               

              Expanded color space management for more import and export formats in Premiere Pro is definitely something we'd like to do in the future.

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              • 5. Re: Premiere sRGB graphics import show different results on different imacs
                Andreas_Vienna Paint Level 1

                Thank you Neil and Wes!

                Display Color Management is off on all macs.

                File format is a .psd in sRGB.

                .psd converted into rec709 produces the same "wrong"result.

                What is so strange, most of our systems, iMacs with or without an Eizo attached as a main monitor, produce absolutely correct result concerning color of sRGB Graphic, when comparing PS file to PR or the rendered mp4. Same right colors in our PC workflow.

                When I render a sequence done on my system, it produces wrong colors in sRGB graphics in my Mac-system, and right colors in our other Mac- or PC-systems. We did not yet find any setting that is different.

                And I found out today, that my MacBook Pro (2014 model) produces the same "wrong" result.

                Still, all film-footage colors are the same in every case.

                So I believe that it has maybe nothing to do with color management, but with some interaction between Adobe and MacOS.

                Thank you again,

                a desperate

                Andreas

                • 6. Re: Premiere sRGB graphics import show different results on different imacs
                  Jim_Simon Level 9

                  I think you need to start with the proper viewing conditions.  For video, that means a dedicated I/O device like the Blacikmagic Intensity or the AJA Kona connected to the best quality calibrated display you can afford.

                   

                  Only that will show you an accurate signal, which is the starting point for all color work.

                  • 7. Re: Premiere sRGB graphics import show different results on different imacs
                    R Neil Haugen Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                    In another thread, a user with heavily calibrated external monitors noted that he's getting a difference in his between Mojave and the previous Mac OS, thinking that with 'night vision' or whatever is going on, Apple has done some things in the OS for display "enhancement".

                     

                    Could this ... Mohave vs earlier OS ... be part of the issue?

                     

                    Neil

                    • 8. Re: Premiere sRGB graphics import show different results on different imacs
                      Andreas_Vienna Paint Level 1

                      Thank you Jim, and Neil,

                      one and the same sequence, rendered on different macs, produces different results when I compare the result on any of the screens, like shown in my example above.

                      So in my view it cannot have to do anything with viewing conditions.

                      We are working with calibrated systems like Sony reference monitors with blackmagic.

                      We have qualified staff and contact to our screen, Mac and Adobe dealers, but there is absolutely no idea why we have this situation.

                      • 9. Re: Premiere sRGB graphics import show different results on different imacs
                        R Neil Haugen Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                        This is gonna take more looking at by Wes I think.

                         

                         

                        Neil

                        • 10. Re: Premiere sRGB graphics import show different results on different imacs
                          franciscrossman Adobe Employee

                          There are several things going one here. Hopefully, we can get you on the right path.  TL;DR - Enable color management in all apps and work in Rec709 across the board.

                          Issue #1: sRGB images don't look right in PPro

                          • This is expected
                          • You should be preparing graphics in Rec709
                          • In PS, you can choose a color profile when creating a new document, or convert an existing document to Rec709 in the Edit Menu - "Convert to Profile" or "Assign Profile".  The one that makes your colors look right to your eye is the correct choice - choose Rec709 Gamma 2.4 profile.  Before making this judgement, check your PS color settings are set to "Monitor" in Edit>Color Settings.  This will ensure that colors are displayed correctly on your particular monitor.
                          • PPro does not convert color profiles of most imported media, so Rec709 is assumed.  An sRGB PSD will definitely look wrong in PPro.

                          Issue #2: Display Color Management should be ON across the board

                          • Check your display ICC profile in System Preferences>Displays>Color - unless you have a special calibration profile, I recommend setting it to the top one in the list (above the line) which is the one designed for the specific display you have.
                          • Enable Display Color Management in PPro/AME - Preferences>General
                          • Display color management will convert from the internal working space in PPro (Rec709) to the ICC profile of the display you checked above.  This way colors are displayed correctly
                          • One important thing to understand about Display Color Management is that it has absolutely no affect on the exported file.  It only affects what you see on your display inside PPro/AME.

                          Issue #3: QC - how are you judging that colors look wrong/right?

                          • It sounds like you have a very professional setup with calibrated external transmit monitors.  Use those for judging colors above all else.
                          • But, when comparing colors on the desktop displays, DO NOT USE QUICKTIME PLAYER.  QuickTime player has a long standing gamma issue, which makes it display incorrect colors.
                          • Comparing colors that are displayed in-app between Premiere Pro and Photoshop (with color management enables and properly configured in both) is valid, and those colors are expected to match.

                           

                          Hope this helps . . .

                          • 11. Re: Premiere sRGB graphics import show different results on different imacs
                            Andreas_Vienna Paint Level 1

                            Thank you for your detailed information!

                            @issue 1: the Problem was not that sRGB colors look generally "wrong", the issue was that they look different on 2 different systems with overall the same settings.

                            They look "right" on one system (Rec709 and sRGB does make only little difference in colors), "wrong" on other.

                             

                            BUT!!!!!!: I found the problem today!!!!!!!

                             

                            The ONLY difference between my system and the other was the color WORKSPACE in PS. I have eci-rgb-v2 because of my print work, the other system has sRGB. Should not be an issue, as when I am preparing graphics in PS for video, I work of course in sRGB.

                             

                            So I tried today setting the PS color workspace in the settings to sRGB, and look: PR shows the right colors!!!!

                             

                            Strangely enough, on a 3rd system with exactly my settings (eci-rgb as workspace in PS), PR shows right colors anyway!

                             

                            Does this sound in any way understandable? PS color workspace effects PR color rendering?????

                             

                            And to your issue#2, display color management did make a difference in render: switched OFF in ME, the formerly right colors from the PR display were wrong again, switched ON, colors were right.

                             

                            Here is the abstract:

                             

                            1 - when I mean color differences, I mean huge ones like in my example above. With what I found out today, they are like assigning a print profile like eci-rgb to a sRGB file. It is not a Gamma issue. I am not comparing cross-platform like QT to PR, I only compare QT to QT, PR to PR, PR to PS

                             

                            2 - on my system the PS color workspace affects the PR color interpretation. On another system inhouse it does not.

                             

                            3 - eci-rgb color workspace in PS produces wrong colors in PR (embedded profiles are sRGB of course!), with all display color management checked.

                             

                            4 - ME does render wrong colors when display color management is not checked.

                             

                            5 - and here again an example of the color differences I was talking about. Bottom colors are right, top ones wrong.

                             

                            Screenshot 2018-11-07 at 08.05.19.jpg

                            So there is a "workaround" for me, but still no proper solution of the situation.

                             

                            Anyway, have a good day,

                            Andreas

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