'Typical'

[osgood_]

The only thing that is 'typical' is you locking a thread anytime you dont like what's been said.

[osgood_]

Yes very helpful _osgood

[Nancy OShea]

As far as I'm concerned, that thread ended at reply #20.  I'm glad Ben locked it.

<Who gives you the right to judge if anything is helpful?>

This forum gives that option to everyone including you.  I'm also a forum moderator and regular contributor in pretty high standing which  I think says I'm savvy enough to know which replies are on topic and most likely to be construed as helpful by a majority of product users.  As for the OP getting helped or not, I guess we'll never know because he disappeared -- no doubt put off by all the  useless banter.  

Incidentally, most questions in other forums are answered swiftly & directly within 5-6 replies.  No tangents, no off topic banter, no noise.  How come this forum is so different from the rest?

[pziecina]

https://forums.adobe.com/people/Nancy+OShea  wrote

Incidentally, most questions in other forums are answered swiftly & directly within 5-6 replies.  No tangents, no off topic banter, no noise.  How come this forum is so different from the rest?

That's easy, most of the other forums don't have so many different ways of achiving the same end result.

I am sort of in agreement with the going off-topic though, one maybe two posts about alternatives iI agree might be af use to the OP, but everything else I would prefer it if a seperate topic was created.

BTW - I did not post code in the relevant discussion because I only had my phone with me, so I would have been unable to test anything I posted first.

[B i r n o u]

pziecina  a écrit

That's easy, most of the other forums don't have so many different ways of achiving the same end result.

I don't quite agree,...

• practicing photoshop clipping can generate dozens of tracks,
• manage document flows (while processing metadata) and project axes can also generate a bunch of different tracks under Bridge,
• process colorimetric flows with PDF flows can also open different doors by using Acrobat,
• operate on symbol-based SVG can also be approached in different ways under Illustrator....
• and so on...I guess that you get the idea...

and please, just, join these forums (I know that you're personnaly involved in many forum... and that you have nothing to sell, just your time, your passion and your long experience) and you will see that the tracks can often be multiple...

I think there are just fewer balconies in these forums...

[osgood_]

https://forums.adobe.com/people/Nancy+OShea  wrote

As far as I'm concerned, that thread ended at reply #20.  I'm glad Ben locked it.

<Who gives you the right to judge if anything is helpful?>

This forum gives that option to everyone including you.  I'm also a forum moderator and regular contributor in pretty high standing which  I think says I'm savvy enough to know which replies are on topic and most likely to be construed as helpful by a majority of product users.  As for the OP getting helped or not, I guess we'll never know because he disappeared -- no doubt put off by all the  useless banter.  

Incidentally, most questions in other forums are answered swiftly & directly within 5-6 replies.  No tangents, no off topic banter, no noise.  How come this forum is so different from the rest?

In the UK we are more modest than to 'pat our own backs', which I view as arrogance of the highest degree and distasteful, it may be a bit different from the part of the World were you come from. As I said IF we all started marking our own posts as being helpful it negates the significance of the option so therefore only the OP, in my opinion, has the right to do that. You can't speak for the OP, only they can, it's not for you to say if what you have written is helpfiul to them or not. It also brings into disrepute the wider nature of the forum itself as there is a significant amount of posts that go unmarked as helpful which are significantly more helpful that the ones that are marked as helpful.

This forum differs from the rest because the rest are as boring as ****, dull and uninteresting and if you're talking about a forum such as wappler, wordpress, wix, webflow and the rest, well it's like the blind leading the blind in those forums, so its highly likely to be less controversial.

If it wasnt for some of us keeping this forum going it would be long dead by now, long dead because no one else contributes anything apart from posting a few links to outside code sources rather than producing anything original, so contributing something original, controversial or not, is better than not contributing at all or just copying solutions from other sources and pasting them here.

[Nancy OShea]

<You can't speak for the OP,>

I speak for no one but myself.   When I mark an answer Helpful or  Correct, that's my considered opinion be it a Bootstrap, jQuery, plain vanilla JS, CSS or other solution.   If you don't agree with me, fine. Become a moderator.

[ALsp]

I think it was me who did the deed by marking my post as Helpful. But I only did that because I knew I was right and was, frankly, frustrated by answers I considered not so good being marked as helpful or correct. I normally would never mark one of my own answers as helpful.

Just trying to clarify things... in as reasonable a way as possible.

[B i r n o u]

ALsp  a écrit

But I only did that because I knew I was right and was, frankly,

<joke>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evt_8hluLww​</joke>

[osgood_]

https://forums.adobe.com/people/Nancy+OShea  wrote

<You can't speak for the OP,>

I speak for no one but myself. 

That's fine by me as long as it's NOT your own posts, that's just arrogant and unhelpful as many posts are 'helpful' but never get marked as helpful, so it actually becomes very meaningless. Try to be a bit more reserved when awarding yourself the gold stars - anyone can do that, its others that award you the gold stars which are more meaningful. I guess if you were an actor you'd consider yourself to be top of the list to award yourself an Oscar.

[W_J_T]

Hmmm ...

osgood_  wrote

The only thing that is 'typical' is

osgood_  wrote

In the UK we are more modest than to 'pat our own backs', which I view as arrogance of the highest degree and distasteful, it may be a bit different from the part of the World were you come from.

osgood_  wrote

Try to be a bit more reserved

Perhaps a bit of " self-reflection " is in order for oneself in those areas also @osgood_ 

Typically I'm sure many reading your posts don't perceive them as being modest, or having the absence of self gloating and the tone of arrogance, while many times being also littered with various distasteful comments also. Try to be a bit more reserved.

[osgood_]

W_J_T  wrote

Hmmm ...

Perhaps a bit of " self-reflection " is in order for oneself in those areas also @osgood_ 

Typically I'm sure many reading your posts don't perceive them as being modest, or having the absence of self gloating and the tone of arrogance, while many times being also littered with various distasteful comments also. Try to be a bit more reserved.

We could all take a look in the mirror and make adjustments/improvements but one thing I cant be accused of is 'feathering my own nest' - perhaps I just find that something which troubles me and is distateful.  I leave what others think of me up to them and if my posts are helpful or not as I  dont want to be percieved as gloating about my own posts, I'll leave that up to those with bigger egos to fill.

I know one thing for sure you've never been too much help or contributed anything worthwhile around these parts to date - so maybe its time for you to look at yourself and what you bring to the forum

[W_J_T]

I knew even with using 5 smileys, it would not deter you from providing such a response, 'Typical'.

[osgood_]

W_J_T  wrote

I knew even with using 5 smileys, it would not deter you from providing such a response, 'Typical'.

'Attempting' to be funny in the light of a serious debate? it's not the time for Kintergarten, that's down the road, first door on the left, the one with the 'Smileys' all over it don't forget you coloring chalks

[W_J_T]

Thanks for the grown-up response. ;--)

[osgood_]

W_J_T  wrote

Thanks for the grown-up response. ;--)

You're most welcome

[pziecina]

What we should be asking, is why Dw does not offer proper support for many of the items/methods some of us bring up. I do agree with many of the off-topic posts, even though I disagree in the hi-jacking of a question, unless it is to offer some form of alternative, or suggestion for improvement.

Without the off-topic alternative suggestions much of what is now possible in html, css and js would never be discussed. Even though Dw managment itself and some users may not wish for ideas for none Dw 'approved' methods to be suggested to users, the only way for Dw users to be informed about them, is via this forum.

[ALsp]

I disagree in the hi-jacking of a question, unless it is to offer some form of alternative, or suggestion for improvement.

Well, the alternative methods you mention are usually not possible to present without causing a topic to go on a tangent. Why? because sometimes a proper (and often best) answer includes a non-Bootstrap/jQuery method, which goes against the group-think of this forum, thereby setting off someone or another.

This hijacking is sometimes an excuse for locking down a conversation that gets uncomfortably beyond this forum's conventional wisdom (or lack thereof). But other times it simply requires everyone (myself included) to take a deep breath and remain reasonable and tolerant--- even if it requires tolerating a bad answer..

[pziecina]

AL, I did go on to say -

Quote

"Without the off-topic alternative suggestions much of what is now possible in html, css and js would never be discussed. Even though Dw managment itself and some users may not wish for ideas for none Dw 'approved' methods to be suggested to users, the only way for Dw users to be informed about them, is via this forum."

End Quote

How, we solve the going off-topic, and still keep users informed of alternatives, is open to discussion, as I do not have an answer to the problem.

[ALsp]

How, we solve the going off-topic, and still keep users informed of alternatives, is open to discussion, as I do not have an answer to the problem.

It could be as simple as being more open to other opinions... especially where it concerns Bootstrap over other page layout methods or coders versus non-coders, or semi-coders... or even where it regards to value of extensions to both coders and non-coders.

[BenPleysier]

I have just finished reading an article on the future of coding practices. No, I do not mean a few lines of JavaScript or server-side code or even markup, I mean real coders that code millions of lines of code for an Airbus or even Tesla motor vehicles.

One quote that made an impression on me:

Like Victor, Bantégnie doesn’t think engineers should develop large systems by typing millions of lines of code into an IDE. “Nobody would build a car by hand,” he says. “Code is still, in many places, handicraft.

Does this mean that we, as the poor cousin web-developers, should continue coding by hand under the 'Professional' banner?

Let's be realistic, there are extensions to make life easier, there is Bootstrap to make life easier, there are different levels of coding expertise that can make use of these developments.

The article goes on to say that visual coding is part of the future. This made me think of the likes of WIX, Pinegrow. No, they are not on the same platform, but they both offer visual development without coding. Perhaps we are a step closer to the future than our revered cousins. That is, if we do not continue with small minded attitudes.

Before I forget, the article started off with:

There were six hours during the night of April 10, 2014, when the entire population of Washington State had no 911 service. People who called for help got a busy signal. One Seattle woman dialled 911 at least 37 times while a stranger was trying to break into her house. When he finally crawled into her living room through a window, she picked up a kitchen knife. The man fled.

The cause was a software (coding) glitch and by removing one digit, the problem was solved. Hand coding or visual coding?

[osgood_]

BenPleysier  wrote

I have just finished reading an article on the future of coding practices. No, I do not mean a few lines of JavaScript or server-side code or even markup, I mean real coders that code millions of lines of code for an Airbus or even Tesla motor vehicles.

Does this mean that we, as the poor cousin web-developers, should continue coding by hand under the 'Professional' banner?

It depends if you have the knowledge and skill needed to intervene when something can't be done visually or suitable options arent available in the software, that is still a great deal in my opinion, like it or not. If you visit most of the forums that offer software which claims 'no coding is necessary' you'll find the majority of users are clueless when the bit of software can't do what they want and lets face it even though software is becoming more advanced so are we humans, its never good enough, that you can witness by all the various 'feature requests' made on a daily basis in these forums.

More 'robot'  web developers will use frameworks in the future and visual software - those who are skilled coders will be their puppet masters, so when anything goes wrong or cannot be achieved visually or via a framework they will step in. Personally I want to be the skilled puppet master, not the unskilled puppet. Yes there will be less and less puppet masters, sounds familar? - its already happened in many industries but I'd rather do something which is skillful rather than do something which amounts to pressing buttons all day. I guess it all comes down to having ambition and wanting to be the best at what you have chosen to do for a career. Its better to have tried and failed rather than not to have tried at all.

Then of course to some its just 'another' job - journeymen without ambition - I won't go there as you cant do anything for people with that mind set.

[B i r n o u]

pziecina  a écrit

How, we solve the going off-topic, and still keep users informed of alternatives, is open to discussion, as I do not have an answer to the problem.

in many Adobe forum, there is often a lounge section, where some off topics can be linked... so free to everyone whose want to follow on not the link and goes off topic... easy....

[pziecina]

https://forums.adobe.com/people/B+i+r+n+o+u  wrote

pziecina   a écrit

How, we solve the going off-topic, and still keep users informed of alternatives, is open to discussion, as I do not have an answer to the problem.

in many Adobe forum, there is often a lounge section, where some off topics can be linked... so free to everyone whose want to follow on not the link and goes off topic... easy....

A lounge section would be helpfull, but I don't think it would solve the going off-topic issue.

Osgood is right when he says that here in the U/K we tend to be much more relaxed about going off-topic. As I have chaired many meetings where those attending from 'other countries' cannot understand why a discussion about one thing will also move to a discussion on related items.

[B i r n o u]

agree... but two points...

1- nope, you missed my point... one have a thread... then if one want to go off-topic... we link a new thread created in the lounge and continue there without bothering the OP and the initial question. we did that way so many time in prerelease.... don't you remember

2- do you think that british are not involve in photoshop, bridge, acrobat, illustrator... and so on