34 Replies Latest reply on Jan 15, 2019 8:54 AM by joanh22203655

    US Government Shutdown — Question

    Trevor.Dennis Adobe Community Professional

      Can someone from the US tell me if people affected by the US Government shutdown get paid retrospectively when a budget is finally agreed, or do they lose that income completely?   What about things like health insurance?  Does that remain valid throughout the shutdown?  I'm not asking about who is to blame.  I'm just wondering how those workers are going to manage if it is as drawn out as they are saying today.

        • 1. Re: US Government Shutdown — Question
          jane-e Adobe Community Professional

          Trevor.Dennis  wrote

          I'm just wondering how those workers are going to manage if it is as drawn out as they are saying today.

          Hi Trevor,

           

          In the past, the people who work for the federal government have been paid in full and their health insurance remains in place. It is always uncertain, and they are always worried. They are more worried this round with an unstable POTUS at the helm.

           

          Here’s the answer to the question you didn’t ask.

           

          There are many people who lose income and will never be paid. That includes the people who work in restaurants because the feds aren’t going to work and aren’t eating out. It includes parking lot attendants. It includes a host of agencies who work with the federal government as contrators. There are more of these than you can imagine. It includes those of us who train in the D.C. area when the federal workers can’t take classes they have signed up and paid for. There are a lot of others in supportive jobs who will take a hit and many are living hand to mouth. All of the food trucks around The Mall where the Smithsonian is shuttered will lose business because the tourists aren’t there. The child care workers aren’t needed and don’t get paid. Taxi, Uber, and Lyft drivers will have fewer customers. And it goes on.

           

          They are saying this one will go on for months because POTUS has said he won’t back down. How many people have enough savings to last a couple of months with zero salary? From what I read, not many.

           

          ~ Jane

          • 2. Re: US Government Shutdown — Question
            Peru Bob Adobe Community Professional & MVP

            They have always been paid retroactively, so those who are not considered essential get extra vacation days, while others like law enforcement, continue to work without getting paid until the mess is fixed.

            • 3. Re: US Government Shutdown — Question
              Trevor.Dennis Adobe Community Professional

              Well that's at least partially reassuring, but not completely without casualties.

               

              Speaking of casualties, the Washington Post carried a story yesterday about there being three deaths in NPs since the shutdown, which seemed just a bit flawed to me.  Sure enough, in the comments one reader looked up statistics that showed that about 300 people die in NPs in an average year (this is from memory — the article has 1500 comments now, and I am not about to trawl through them all) so the rate of deaths in the Parks is actually down.   It also sounds like the circumstances of the three fatalities last week, would not have lead to different outcomes if the Rangers had been at work.   Now if someone was unlucky enough to be attacked by a bear, because there were no Rangers to close that particular trail, that might be different.

               

              I've visited several NPs, and loved them all [1].  The Grand Canyon probably had the greatest impact, because pictures just can't prepare you for the reality of your first steps to the rim.  I'll try and remember the others, but it was a long time ago.  Yellowstone, Arches, Yosemite, Badlands, Bryce, Zion, Death Valley, Everglades [2], Grand Teton [3]  Joshua Tree, and Mesa Verde.  Goodness, that's more than I realised, but nothing eastern.

               

              [1]  A wee proviso for Monument Valley.  We arrived a bit too late to get a tour, and had to carry on driving so would have missed it, so we took off around it in the hire car.  To be honest, I did kind of now why several Navajo were shaking fists at us, but we pleaded ignorance, did our tour, and carried on driving.  The locals did not look the hapiest of people.

               

              [2]  I'm thinking of Noel who has just moved from Florida to Minnesota to work at the Adobe Arden Hills location.  I hope his family are still speaking to him!   So at the Everglades it very pleasant, and the tourists all had shorts and a T-shirt, but the locals had long trousers and sweatshirts.  I guess it comes down to what you are used to.

               

              [3] Being into fast bikes and a bit of a speed demon, I thought I could get down the Jackson Hole Alpine Slide without using the brakes.  I went over the side at goodness knows what speed and got a god-awful gravel rash that hurt like blazes for the rest of the holiday. 

               

              My disaster was thirty to forty years ago, before they'd invented tiny video cameras, so this is not me.

              • 4. Re: US Government Shutdown — Question
                John T Smith Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                I'm way too old to risk my body on something like that... but when I go on the Symphony of the Seas later this year I may go on the 10 story slide tube

                 

                Royal Caribbean Symphony of the Seas The Ultimate Abyss Photos - 29 Pictures

                • 5. Re: US Government Shutdown — Question
                  Trevor.Dennis Adobe Community Professional

                  John, have you ever seen that thing where sheep and cattle farmers select animals by moving a gate?  I have it on good authority that SotS crew have a similar control on the slides that deposit troublesome customers into the ocean. 

                  • 6. Re: US Government Shutdown — Question
                    jane-e Adobe Community Professional

                    Trevor.Dennis  wrote

                     

                    Well that's at least partially reassuring, but not completely without casualties.

                     

                    Now if someone was unlucky enough to be attacked by a bear, because there were no Rangers to close that particular trail, that might be different.

                     

                     

                    Hi Trevor,

                     

                    This shutdown is more disturbing than past shutdowns. We have an unstable POTUS who is digging in his heels. It is already the longest shutdown. There is no guarantee federal workers will be paid, and many have already filed for unemployment. They pay it back if they do get paid, but it helps a bit in the meantime. It won’t be enough to pay their monthly bills for any extended time. POTUS has said this shutdown will last for months or years.

                     

                    The many contractors who make the government work are not getting paid and will never get paid. They never do. Plus the other support jobs, like taxi drivers and restaurant workers and people who teach classes to government workers (me).

                     

                    The food stamp program is one service that is in danger, meaning those who need it most will be hungry.

                     

                    The government provides many services that we depend on, and those jobs are not being done.

                     

                    It’s almost like POTUS has forgotten the “America First” and “Make America Great Again” slogans he’s been spouting and replaced them with something dire.

                     

                    Close a trail for bears? Whenever I see a bear on a trail, it’s always running away from me. I’m not worried about bears as much as I am about our POTUS.

                     

                    ~ Jane

                    • 7. Re: US Government Shutdown — Question
                      SJRiegel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                      https://forums.adobe.com/people/Peru+Bob  wrote

                       

                      They have always been paid retroactively, so those who are not considered essential get extra vacation days, while others like law enforcement, continue to work without getting paid until the mess is fixed.

                      The furloughed employees of the government have always been paid retroactively in the past, but this requires a bill to pass both houses, and the president to sign it. There is no guarantee that this will happen this time around.

                      • 8. Re: US Government Shutdown — Question
                        Peru Bob Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                        It would be political suicide to vote against a bill like that.  Even if it were vetoed, there would be enough votes to overturn the veto.

                        • 9. Re: US Government Shutdown — Question
                          SJRiegel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                          That's true.

                          But sadly, I would not be surprised if a veto were at least threatened, since the President has been heard to claim (and his supporters heard to echo) that after all, most of the workers affected by it are Democrats*.

                          • 10. Re: US Government Shutdown — Question
                            jane-e Adobe Community Professional

                            We have never had an unstable president before who says an average of 15 untrue things per day. We can’t know what to expect from him, except to know that it will not be in the best interest of our country.

                            • 11. Re: US Government Shutdown — Question
                              Trevor.Dennis Adobe Community Professional

                              Another thing that I am not entirely clear on the driving forces for, is the timing.  Why has Trump waited till he was banging heads with Democrats before making this stand?  It's amazing that he has compromised to the extent of it being a steel wall that the patrols can see through, rather than a symbolic structure to rival the Great Wall of China to live on with his name to it. 

                               

                              I fully expect a bill to change the US Mexico border so that the 'wall' has more significance when viewed from space

                              1 person found this helpful
                              • 12. Re: US Government Shutdown — Question
                                jane-e Adobe Community Professional

                                Trevor.Dennis  wrote

                                Speaking of casualties, the Washington Post carried a story yesterday about there being three deaths in NPs since the shutdown, which seemed just a bit flawed to me.  

                                 

                                Now if someone was unlucky enough to be attacked by a bear, because there were no Rangers to close that particular trail, that might be different.

                                 

                                Goodness, that's more than I realised, but nothing eastern.

                                 

                                 

                                Being into fast bikes and a bit of a speed demon, I thought I could get down the Jackson Hole Alpine Slide without using the brakes. 

                                 

                                 

                                Hi Trevor,

                                 

                                To continue:

                                 

                                I agree that three deaths since the shutdown began isn’t many, although any number is a tragedy. Two were from falling, and while I do not know the details of these two falls, I do know that many falls are from people who stand too close to the edge. The third was from a falling tree. Trees fall fast, as I just saw yesterday when one fell in front of me in a National Park. Rangers could not have stopped any of these accidents, but help and rescues could have come faster if they had been on duty and possibly lives could have been saved. Again, I don’t know the details.

                                 

                                I looked up bear attacks and found a chart of where they are most likely to happen. But first read this to keep it in perspective:

                                “In the past five years, three people have been killed by bears in nearby Yellowstone National Park. During that time, 20 million tourists have come through the park. I’m seven times more likely to be struck by lightning than to lose my life to a bear here.”

                                The parks where you're most likely to be killed by a bear - Vox

                                 

                                Wow, you’ve been to a lot of our parks, Trevor! Was that all in one trip? When is your trip to visit the East Coast National Parks planned? And when were you in Jackson Hole? We were there in the early 90s and I don’t remember that slide. I would have been on it! Do you know what your speed was? Other than the tragedy of the rash, it does look like fun.

                                 

                                And I would still rather face a bear on a trail than face our POTUS anywhere, because I know what to expect when I encounter a bear.

                                 

                                Cheers,

                                Jane

                                • 13. Re: US Government Shutdown — Question
                                  Trevor.Dennis Adobe Community Professional

                                  Jane, that's a good point about Search & Rescue, although I suspect a lot of the people involved do so on a voluntary basis.  That would not include helicopters I'm thinking.  Your wilderness areas can be huge.  Do hikers routinely carry PRBs?  They are available for hire here, but mainly through organisations like DoC (Department of Conservation) and they would almost certainly be affected by a shut down if such a thing existed in NZ.

                                   

                                  You know my wife works in the local hospital.  Forestry and agriculture are their biggest customers in ED.   I can't remember seeing a tree randomly falling in front of me, but I did once witness a huge chunk of glacier fall, but from a good mile away.  This was between the Dart Hut and Cascade Saddle — a very isolated place.

                                   

                                  I have had four trips to the US (five including MAX in 2016).  Two were Florida and don't count.  Another was LA, San Diego, Phoenix, Flagstaff, Las Vagas, Yosemite, San Francisco and back to LA.   Il had to think about the other one, despite it being more recent.  Even looking at the map I couldn't stake my life on getting the route right, but it was north up as far as the Badlands, then west to Yellowstone, down to the Grant Tetons.  From there it was Zion, Bryce, Arches, and Mesa Verde, and other stuff that I am  vague on.  I remember taking a minor road that cut out a lot of miles.  This was south  somewhere around the Zion Bryce area.  This road was clearly marked on the map, but it got more and more hairy till we were driving  in ruts that the hire car was only just making.  It was one heck of a way back, so we carried on and were suddenly on sealed road again.    We drove up Mount Evans, and I walked the last bit to the top and thought I was going to die.  By heck, I just couldn't get my wind back after showing off and racing straight up the side instead of taking the zig zag track.   I also remember a cyclist who rode to the top, turned round and went straight back down.  We followed, and were totally unable to keep up!  Crazy bugger!!

                                   

                                  One last story involving Yellowstone.  We were a good hour into a trail, and found it  blocked by a large herd of bison, so we took a decent detour.  Meanwhile a mum and dad on bikes with kiddy trailers road right though the middle of them.  We'd just been told about a French tourist who was killed trying to ride a bison, but I don't know if that was true or urban myth.  We saw at least one trail which was closed to due bear activity. 

                                   

                                  Well we are totally off topic now.  Even for a Lounge thread!  I've read that Trump's threat to evoke emergency powers to fund his wall would be unlikely to succeed,  which is almost a pity, because the human cost of the shutdown will go right over his head. 

                                  • 14. Re: US Government Shutdown — Question
                                    D Fosse Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                    I'm just left with one question buzzing in my ears throughout all this.

                                     

                                    Why, exactly, is it a good idea to hand so much power over to a single individual?

                                    • 15. Re: US Government Shutdown — Question
                                      SJRiegel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                      A bill passed the House this term that had passed the Senate last term with enough votes in both houses to override his threatened veto. The thing is, it would have to pass the Senate this term to be sent to his desk, and the Senate majority leader refuses to let it come back to the floor.

                                      The problem is that the President and GOP leaders are treating this like a game with "winners and losers," instead of looking at what is best for the whole country.

                                      1 person found this helpful
                                      • 16. Re: US Government Shutdown — Question
                                        D Fosse Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                        Yes, but I meant in the broader picture. Why should a president - one person - have this power? Is it just that nobody saw this coming?

                                         

                                        The constitution here in Norway would never allow such a situation in the first place. If at one point the Democrats got majority in both chambers, would it be possible to sneak in some measures to prevent this from ever happening again?

                                         

                                        Or would, say, the Supreme Court nix it? (again, an unthinkable situation here).

                                        • 17. Re: US Government Shutdown — Question
                                          Nancy OShea Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                          Can someone from the US tell me if people affected by the US Government shutdown get paid retrospectively when a budget is finally agreed, or do they lose that income completely?   What about things like health insurance?

                                           

                                          It depends.

                                           

                                          Non-essential personnel are furloughed until called back to work.  Technically they don't get paid after the shutdown except at the discretion of Congress.   In the past Congress passed provisions to pay furloughed employees for time not worked  but nowhere is that etched in stone.   So we'll wait and see what happens.

                                           

                                          Essential personnel like TSA employees have to keep working during the shutdown but eventually they receive retroactive pay.  

                                           

                                          Health insurance is contracted annually so all gov't employees keep their health benefits for 1 year regardless.

                                           

                                          The real worry right now is that if the shutdown isn't resolved soon, millions of low-income Americans will stop receiving food stamps.  January is a cold month.   Faced with buying food or heating your home, what do you do?

                                           

                                          Trump can no more relate to these hardships than fly to the moon.

                                          • 18. Re: US Government Shutdown — Question
                                            Trevor.Dennis Adobe Community Professional

                                            https://forums.adobe.com/people/D+Fosse  wrote

                                             

                                            Yes, but I meant in the broader picture. Why should a president - one person - have this power? Is it just that nobody saw this coming?

                                             

                                            The constitution here in Norway would never allow such a situation in the first place. If at one point the Democrats got majority in both chambers, would it be possible to sneak in some measures to prevent this from ever happening again?

                                             

                                            Or would, say, the Supreme Court nix it? (again, an unthinkable situation here).

                                            President for life has happened in Russia and China.  Putin stays true to his country's Constitution by rotating President and Prime Minister with lackey Dmitry Medvedev, and Xi Jinping can potentially rule China indefinitely after the government he controls abolished term limits.  North Korea has been ruled by the Kim family since 1948.  All three countries have firm control of media, with the latter having total control.   China and Russia control the Internet in their countries.  After skimming the links in the last few sentences, I find that I was not aware just how extensively the internet is censored in those countries.

                                             

                                            I am not so sure about China, but we are led to believe by Western media, that Putin and Kim Jong-un are genuinely loved by the people they govern.  That's astonishing if you think about it.  Not much uncensored news comes out of North Korea, but we see lots of stories about poverty in rural Russia.   A recent BBC News article told of drains being blocked in Siberia when folk don't pay their water company bills.  (I can't find the BBC story, but this is the same situation)

                                             

                                            The Toilet of Shame — a threat to those  who do not pay their bills.

                                             

                                            Could this happen in America?  I don't have a detailed knowledge of the American Constitution to have an opinion about whether it would preclude a  President for life.  By all accounts, Trump is an appalling human being.  Hi is selfish, narcissistic, misogynist, and all of his screws are loose, and yet millions of Americans don't seem to care.  They speak of less unemployment and a buoyant economy, but ignore that the jobs are in mining coal, and that America's National Debt continues to grow.  Nor do they care that their POTUS tells easily disproved lie after lie.

                                             

                                            I'd say that it is not unthinkable that America could become a one party/ruler state.  

                                            • 19. Re: US Government Shutdown — Question
                                              Nancy OShea Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                              We do care.  The question is how disruptive will it be to impeach or indict on crinimal charges the 2 leading men in the white house?  

                                               

                                              Trevor.Dennis  wrote

                                               

                                              I'd say that it is not unthinkable that America could become a one party/ruler state.  

                                              That's not gonna happen, Trevor.  The US gov has checks and balances from 3 equal branches.

                                              • Executive = POTUS + 5 million workers
                                              • Legislative  = Senate + House of Reps
                                              • Judicial  = Supreme + lower courts.

                                               

                                              We have a multi-party system but the top 2 have a majority of members right now. 

                                              • Democrats,
                                              • Republicans,
                                              • Libertarians,
                                              • Green,
                                              • Constitution

                                               

                                              Also don't underestimate the power of Speaker Nancy Pelosi.   If Trump & Pence are indicted on criminal charges during their terms,  Democrat Nancy Pelosi steps into the oval office. 

                                              • 20. Re: US Government Shutdown — Question
                                                D Fosse Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                Yes, Trevor, that's what worries me. Once the ultra-right-wingers got some traction, as they did in the US, they had a remarkably easy play. Now it seems they can do whatever they want and get away with it. And there seems to be nothing built into the institutions to halt it.

                                                 

                                                There are two major problems. One is the explicitly political role of the Supreme Court. Americans may think that's the natural order of things, but it isn't everywhere else. The way the Supreme Court is going now, the ultra right seems to have have secured control for a long time. These guys sit for life!

                                                 

                                                The second is even more serious: the voter registration system. Why do you need to register to vote? Over here, the only requirement is being born. Yes, that's right. No questions asked except something to prove your identity. We all heard about the scams in the US election - and they're getting away with it.

                                                 

                                                Trump was elected by 26% of the eligible voters. If you count the total population, the number drops to 19%. One in five.

                                                 

                                                EDIT: sorry, Nancy, didn't mean to contradict you, which it appears I am. I just watch the news, and it scares me.

                                                • 21. Re: US Government Shutdown — Question
                                                  jane-e Adobe Community Professional

                                                  Trevor.Dennis  wrote

                                                   

                                                  Jane, that's a good point about Search & Rescue, although I suspect a lot of the people involved do so on a voluntary basis. 

                                                   

                                                  Search and rescue is done by the National Park Service for the most part. I don’t know what a PRB is?

                                                  https://www.nps.gov/subjects/aviation/aviation-search-rescue.htm

                                                   

                                                  I have had four trips to the US (five including MAX in 2016). ... We drove up Mount Evans, and I walked the last bit to the top and thought I was going to die.  By heck, I just couldn't get my wind back after showing off and racing straight up the side instead of taking the zig zag track. 

                                                   

                                                  I really loved, loved, loved hearing about your U.S. adventures, Trevor! One question: Colorado was not on your list, but Mount Evans which is in Colorado was? I am going to message you something about Mt. Evans. A second question: when is your East Coast tour planned?

                                                   

                                                  We'd just been told about a French tourist who was killed trying to ride a bison, but I don't know if that was true or urban myth. 

                                                   

                                                  I don’t know about bison, but I just learned from a Bill Bryson book this week that cows attack and it can be quite vicious.

                                                  https://io9.gizmodo.com/cows-are-deadlier-than-you-ever-knew-1690950434

                                                   

                                                   

                                                  I've read that Trump's threat to evoke emergency powers to fund his wall would be unlikely to succeed,

                                                   

                                                  We don’t know what to expect anymore. We are living in The Twilight Zone. It would be awful for so very many reasons.

                                                   

                                                  • 22. Re: US Government Shutdown — Question
                                                    Nancy OShea Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                    https://forums.adobe.com/people/D+Fosse  wrote

                                                     

                                                    EDIT: sorry, Nancy, didn't mean to contradict you, which it appears I am. I just watch the news, and it scares me.

                                                    No worries.    You should probably read Night of Camp David --  a pulpy 1965 thriller about an insane Comander-In-Chief.    It might make you feel better .

                                                     

                                                     

                                                     

                                                    • 23. Re: US Government Shutdown — Question
                                                      Trevor.Dennis Adobe Community Professional

                                                      OK, so we are now in a situation where concerns in this thread have become immediately topical.  The major networks in the US are going to cover Trump's address to the Nation, but the problem is we all know he routinely lies.  A lot.  So what is put forward as supposedly important information, becomes nothing bu propaganda.  Even worse, a disturbing number of Americans are going to take it as 'convenient' fact.   That is to say, deep down they know it is not true, but it fits with their world view  so they will pretend that it is.  That sounds like a convincing step towards realising concerns expressed back this thread.

                                                       

                                                      This article in The Post discusses the concerns of the media outlets, and how they might deal with a real time litany of lies.

                                                       

                                                      https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/01/08/this-president-lies-daily-critics-demand- networks-fact-check-trumps-liv…

                                                       

                                                      It is at least reassuring that Trump's address will not go unchallenged, as Nancy Pelosi will respond right afterwards.  Will that also be carried by the major networks?

                                                       

                                                       

                                                      I'm going to try and find a site that streams Trump's address with real time fact checking.

                                                       

                                                      Something else that I wonder about are Trumps support staff who have to tell the same lies.  I have been thinking in terms of a defence lawyer who has to defend a person obviously guilty of heinous crimes, and put their heart and sole into that defence.  Sarah Sanders actually came close to looking uncomfortable on Fox News this week, when spouting alternative facts about terrorists intercepted at the southern border.  That really doesn't help Trump's argument for his wall, when the justifications his press secretary puts forward are ripped to pieces on Fox News off all places.

                                                       

                                                      https://www.salon.com/2019/01/07/fox-news-host-blasts-sarah-huckabee-sanders-for-lying-abo ut-terrorists-at-the-southern-…

                                                       

                                                       

                                                      The face of someone losing an argument

                                                      • 24. Re: US Government Shutdown — Question
                                                        jane-e Adobe Community Professional

                                                        https://forums.adobe.com/people/Nancy+OShea  wrote

                                                         

                                                        Essential personnel like TSA employees have to keep working during the shutdown but eventually they receive retroactive pay.  

                                                         

                                                        TSA employees have been calling in sick and security lines are growing.

                                                        Airport Security Lines Grow Across The Nation As TSA Sickout Continues

                                                        • 25. Re: US Government Shutdown — Question
                                                          Nancy OShea Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                          Of course they're calling in sick.  This is flu season.

                                                          Weekly US Map: Influenza Summary Update | CDC

                                                          • 26. Re: US Government Shutdown — Question
                                                            Ussnorway Adobe Community Professional

                                                            https://forums.adobe.com/people/D+Fosse  wrote

                                                             

                                                            I'm just left with one question buzzing in my ears throughout all this.

                                                             

                                                            Why, exactly, is it a good idea to hand so much power over to a single individual?

                                                            because the system was put together back in a time when most people cared about America and what happened to their country... after 200 years of rape, pointless wars and no hope they will vote any pluck a duck in because it can't get worse than this last person right?

                                                            • 27. Re: US Government Shutdown — Question
                                                              jane-e Adobe Community Professional

                                                              Trevor.Dennis  wrote

                                                              I'm not asking about who is to blame.  I'm just wondering how those workers are going to manage if it is as drawn out as they are saying today.

                                                               

                                                              Trevor,

                                                               

                                                              This Youtube video explains the shutdown best. It’s a must-see.

                                                              Stephen Explains The Shutdown With Beer - YouTube

                                                               

                                                              ~ Jane

                                                              • 28. Re: US Government Shutdown — Question
                                                                Trevor.Dennis Adobe Community Professional

                                                                Thanks Jane.  I'll watch it when I am properly awake.   I watched both Trump's address and the Democrat response, and from a delivery point of view, and also content if you took then on face value, I thought Trump did a better job.  Certainly better than Nancy Pelosi.   And here lies the problem.  The Trump fan base will have taken it at face value, and as said back up the thread, they accept the content as fact even though they know that content fell somewhere between deception and down right lies.

                                                                 

                                                                https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/01/09/fact-checking-president-trumps-oval-off ice-address-immigration/?utm_t…

                                                                 

                                                                The above link went soon after the address, and the Post has expanded its reporting on it since then.

                                                                 

                                                                https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/01/09/trumps-speech-was-full-lies-it-also-giv es-democrats-an-opening/?utm_t…

                                                                 

                                                                Hmmm...  I use an incognito window for my occasional forays into the Post, which just tripped me up, as I was not able to use the browser history to find the first link above.  Google came to the rescue though. 

                                                                • 29. Re: US Government Shutdown — Question
                                                                  Nancy OShea Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                                  The beer thing was very cute .

                                                                  • 30. Re: US Government Shutdown — Question
                                                                    Trevor.Dennis Adobe Community Professional

                                                                    This was so predictable.  My wife showed me a Facebook gag about a Lego border Wall, and when I searched for the image to paste here, Google was teeming with similar images.  These are just a few of them.  Our TV news went in a different direction today, putting a lot more emphasis on the hardship the shutdown is causing.  One interviewee had contacted their mortgage company asking for their understanding, and was told pay up or go on the debtor's list.  That seems pretty mean.

                                                                    Trump Wall Lego Set

                                                                    Image result for donald trump lego border wall

                                                                    Image result for donald trump lego border wall

                                                                    Image result for donald trump lego border wall

                                                                    • 31. Re: US Government Shutdown — Question
                                                                      jane-e Adobe Community Professional

                                                                      Trevor.Dennis  wrote

                                                                      My wife showed me a Facebook gag about a Lego border Wall, and when I searched for the image to paste here, Google was teeming with similar images.

                                                                       

                                                                      A pro-POTUS company is selling these Build-a-wall kits with 45’s photo on them, and you have to wonder how much our president stands to profit from each sale that has his picture on it.

                                                                      Pro-Trump company Keep and Bear selling Lego-like "Build the Wall" toy ahead of Christmas - CBS News

                                                                       

                                                                      Another awful thing is that vandals have been busy destroying Joshua Tree National Park which will now close to protect its resources.

                                                                      https://www.nationalparkstraveler.org/2019/01/joshua-tree-national-park-close-cleanup-repa irs-vandalism-illegal-roads

                                                                       

                                                                      The shutdown is causing very real hardships for many.

                                                                      Government Shutdown Across America - The New York Times

                                                                       

                                                                      In my opinion, this whole “national emergency” is a smokescreen to divert the news away from Mueller’s probe. If we were actually having a national emergency, he wouldn’t be waiting this long to declare it.

                                                                      • 32. Re: US Government Shutdown — Question
                                                                        Ussnorway Adobe Community Professional

                                                                        Putin is respected by most people in Russia (and a lot outside)... loved is not the same thing mate but I'd take him over Kim

                                                                         

                                                                        Trump is just the guy most US people figgured was better than keeping Hillary... we will never know if they were right

                                                                        • 33. Re: US Government Shutdown — Question
                                                                          Nancy OShea Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                                          Ussnorway  wrote

                                                                           

                                                                          Trump is just the guy most US people figgured was better than keeping Hillary... we will never know if they were right

                                                                          Hillary won the popular vote.  And Trump said during his campaign, "This is a rigged election!"  Little did we know then that he meant "rigged by Putin to elect Trump."

                                                                          2 people found this helpful
                                                                          • 34. Re: US Government Shutdown — Question
                                                                            joanh22203655 Adobe Community Professional

                                                                            The individual is powerless at the moment to that does not happen regularly. JH