14 Replies Latest reply on Jul 5, 2006 11:05 AM by SamCantCode

    Data Services "Express" ?

    SamCantCode
      Is the express version the full version? I am used to express versions typicaly being watered-down versions of a more expensive/robust retail version.

      Regards.
        • 1. Re: Data Services "Express" ?
          Joao Fernandes
          it's the same, it will revert to the correct edition based in the license you'll insert during the installation.
          • 2. Re: Data Services "Express" ?
            Adobe_Phil
            From an API standpoint, the Express edition is exactly the same as the Enterprise edition. The difference is in the rights you get with the license. With the Express Edition, you can only deploy applications that run on a single CPU and that are not clustered or load balanced. there is a more complete discussion of this here:

            http://www.adobe.com/products/flex/productinfo/faq/#item-11

            Phil Costa
            Group Product Manager, Flex
            • 3. Re: Data Services "Express" ?
              rdellis
              Phil I am still unclear on the FDS Express license. I have a dual processor web server, no clustering, no load balancing. The link you provided for " a more complete discussion" did not clear up my question.

              The linked document states " The Express license does not allow (1) the installation, use, or access of Adobe Flex Data Services Express software on more than one CPU" and later states " ...Flex Data Services Express 2 for use on a single, nonclustered server."

              Will FDS Express work on my server with dual processors or will I need to purchase FDS?

              Randy
              • 4. Re: Data Services "Express" ?
                Adobe_Phil Level 1
                If you want to run FDS on more than one processor, you would have to purchase a license, either to the Enterprise edition or the Departmental Edition.

                Phil
                • 5. Re: Data Services "Express" ?
                  SamCantCode Level 1
                  Express Edition, Enterprise Edition, Departmental Edition?

                  I can't find any info on the enterprise or departmental editions? Anyone got pricing, availability, specifications?

                  I have contacted Macro-dobe and they stated they don't have pricing... said I needed to be contacted by a sales rep.
                  I have yet to hear from them. I've never had much luck with getting a call from their sales reps...
                  • 6. Re: Data Services "Express" ?
                    rdellis Level 1
                    I must say I’m disappointment with Adobe’s FDS licensing model. Last week during Adobe’s Developers Week seminars James Ward clearly stated that FDS would be free for non-clustered Coldfusion Servers. Secondly, since the Coldfusion licensing supports servers with 1 OR 2 processors we have purchased dual processor servers to maximize performance while staying within the licensing requirements. Why would Adobe release FDS Express and not have it match the Coldfusion server licensing support of 1 or 2 processors?

                    I placed a request for a Flex Specialist to contact me about pricing information on FDS into Adobe two days ago with no response as of yet. I hope the same pricing problem Flex 1.x faced does not exist for Flex 2. Since we are a Coldfusion shop, there is less appeal to purchase Flex Builder without FDS. We may have to reevaluate purchasing Flex Builder 2 without FDS or purchase single processor servers to replace our dual processor servers.

                    Will FDS Express even run on a Dual-Core processor? If not, many developers will not even be able to use FDS Express for development on their local machines.
                    • 7. Re: Data Services "Express" ?
                      Adobe_Phil Level 1
                      What James said in his presentation is correct. It's free for up to 1 CPU. I'm sorry if that wasn't clear or if he wasn't being specific enough. The Express license is meant to be usable in a production environment, but only for non-mission critical applications. If you're deploying it in a high-availability, high-performance environment, you have to license one of the other versions, just as you would ColdFusion Standard or Enterprise. We have to make money somehow, don't we?

                      Just for the record, there are two editions of FDS -- departmental and enterprise. The departmental is limited to use by 100 concurrent users, and it's priced proportionately lower than the Enterprise edition, which has no limit on concurrent users.

                      If licensing FDS is out of your budget, you can take advantage of the free update to Remoting that's included with CFMX 7.0.2, and use that with Flex Builder. It doesn't get you the full range of capabilities included with FDS, but it gets you the high-performance data transfer of AMF. That's one of the great benefits of the new packaging for Flex.

                      Lastly, to answer your dev question. The CPU limitation on FDS Express is for deployment only. You can develop on machines that have more than one CPU, so if that's what your dev machine looks like, it's not a violation of the EULA.

                      Oh yes, and sorry if sales hasn't gotten back to you right away. They're a bit swamped because of the launch, plus a lot of people are on holiday at the moment.

                      I hope that answers your question.
                      • 8. Re: Data Services "Express" ?
                        Mark Forsberg
                        Sam,

                        In an online Adobe Seminar yesterday the cost of the Enterprise was listed at $20,000. There was no cost availability on the "Departmental" version. I'm guessing that the whiz-bang stuff you see in most sales demos, i.e. realtime help desk, etc, can only be done with the enterprise. When they say that the departmental version will be "priced proportionately lower than the Enterprise edition", I'd guess that it will cost about the same as the flex 1.5 license.
                        I understand that Adobe needs to make money, but this kind of feels like the old bait and switch. The big sell on Flex 2 was that the cost wouldn't be as high. Yeah, right.
                        • 9. Re: Data Services "Express" ?
                          SamCantCode Level 1
                          Mark,

                          I am compelled to agree with you. I thought Macro-dobe was making a great breakthrough by allowing so much involvement during the beta stages and although things were a little muddy regarding how Flex 2 was to be broken up (data services, builder, charting, pricing etc etc) I thought things were looking pretty decent.

                          But realistically, I am looking at Flex 2 now and seeing that it is an "enterprise level" RIA development tool, but the data services 2 pricing model doesn't fit the scope of how a company would host or manage an enterprise level RIA. (I am not going to develop an enterprise level RIA and put it on a 1 cpu server). Or, for that matter, the "express" CPU limitations don't match the server licensing agreements of products that could be considered daughter products (ColdFusion for example).

                          Personally, I have put in several requests for contact by a sales rep; both weeks/months prior to the retail launch as well as in the recent past and still have yet to hear from anyone. Adobe sales support quoted Flex 1.5 pricing to me yesterday and said that they didn't have complete pricing for Flex 2 yet (this is after the retail release) and that the only way to get the info was to wait for contact from a sales rep. And that they didn't have a direct number for sales reps; it was "don't call us we'll call you."

                          Is the pricing a secret? It'd be nice to know whether or not Flex fits my scope of development and my plans for implementation. I am hesitant to by Flex Builder or any other portion if there is a reluctance to disclose the price of other, possibly necessary, components such as FDS (my accountant doesn't consider the phrase "proportionally lower than Enterprise edition" as a dollar figure).

                          Can someone post the pricing breakdown somewhere?

                          Please forgive my frustration. But as a developer I need to know what I am looking at forking out to make this new, great technology a feasable part of my workflow. And thus far, I have kind of gotten the feeling that when Adobe asks me how many employees I have, what my yearly revenue stream and budgets are, that I am being put on the low-priority list for the sales reps to call when-and-if.
                          • 10. Re: Data Services "Express" ?
                            Mark Forsberg Level 1
                            Sam,

                            I found this on Ben Forta's site. I understand what he's saying. I'm beginning to get what he's saying, but I'm still puzzled. What does FDS Express, or the Enterprise version, for that matter, offer to me. Based on his article I have no need for FDS, as the only thing that it appears to have extra is the "push" technology.
                            In the end, without all the new bells and whistles, it is a different way to do RIA's than with the CF and Flash combo. I have some hard thinking to do on if it's worth the money just to speed up RIA construction time.
                            We also purchased a 2 CPU Server to take advantage of CF Licensing. This has been a letdown. For me to use the sweet new stuff (Push) I'd need to plunk down another $12,000. It's a sell that I don't know if I can make. It would have been nice if they had even offered a reduced fee license for those of us with a registered CF Server.
                            I'm not down on Flex per se. I think that the technology is pretty sweet and it's fun to play with. Apps look great. It's just that all of the "hype" about cost this has come as a surprise.


                            http://www.forta.com/blog/index.cfm?mode=cat&catid=A61B605B-3048-80A9-EF9F275818CBF7CC&sta rtRow=26
                            • 11. Re: Data Services "Express" ?
                              SamCantCode Level 1
                              I hear ya.

                              I just plunked down cash for 3 Dual Xeon servers and a 2TB SAN; spent $20,000+

                              Still would like to get pricing. no sign of the sales rep calling me...

                              I am a little foggy on concurrent users. Can anyone help me get my head around what this is related to?
                              Is it actual "logged in" users? Or actual impressions on the site at one time? Or is it tied to only the actual querying/pushing people are doing?

                              I'll ask this from the point of view that I am intending to build RIA's that could ramp up in user-base very quickly (aren't we all)...like, to give me some visibility on the scope of concurrent users, what would a site like myspace.com be looking at? If its by impressions, a company like myspace would max out their server licensing in about 5 seconds if they started out with the Express version of FDS (obviously they could afford the dent to their wallet for ent. version... but humor me)

                              And one more question. What happens to 101st concurrent user? Does his page time out? Stall until a slot opens up? Computer start on fire? :)

                              I know I am needy

                              XOXOXOXOXOXO
                              • 12. Data Services "Express" ?
                                SamCantCode Level 1
                                So as to not appear totally needy, lazy and google-inept, I thought I'd post my research on pricing. Peter Ent spells it all out for us in his blog:
                                Peter Ent's blog entry on Flex 2 Pricing

                                He also defines concurrent users.
                                Good info for anyone that is looking to purchase and can't wait for the sales rep to call :)
                                • 13. Re: Data Services "Express" ?
                                  RuiRosao
                                  Thank you Sam, for your persistence on this issue. I also waited almost two weeks for an answer from a sales rep. Got a call today, after contacting adobe in Holland,England,Ireland,Belgium...
                                  The prices look consistent to me: in Europe we got the following indications: for Departmental 5.500,00 euro, for Enterprise 18.500,00 euro. At an exchange rate of about 1 euro = 1,22 dollar, they are a little more expensive in Europe compared to Peter Ent's blog.
                                  We are also reconsidering now, and are curious to the reactions of our client base.

                                  • 14. Re: Data Services "Express" ?
                                    SamCantCode Level 1
                                    Still no contact from a sales rep here...

                                    Good to know the pricing though at least we have visibility on what we need to spend.