8 Replies Latest reply on Jul 3, 2006 7:29 AM by Newsgroup_User

    Fonts sizes do not match from Fireworks to coding software

    geez_a_ree
      I am creating bitmaps in FireWorks for a GUI that is being implamented in MS Visual Studio. The bitmaps are being saved at 96 dpi per the engineers request. When i spec a font size that works in the Fireworks environment it comes out larger when typed in Visual Studio.

      I tried to replicate the problem using Photoshop and got the same problem. when i bumped the dpi down to 72 and typed the specified font sized it worked perfectly. If i keep the dpi at 96 i have to bump the font size down from 14pt to 12 and it seems to work

      Any clue as to why this is happening?

      Thanks
      Steve
        • 1. Re: Fonts sizes do not match from Fireworks to coding   software
          Level 7
          geez a ree wrote:

          > I tried to replicate the problem using Photoshop and got the same problem.
          > when i bumped the dpi down to 72 and typed the specified font sized it worked
          > perfectly. If i keep the dpi at 96 i have to bump the font size down from 14pt

          In Fireworks, characters are measured in pixels rather than in points.

          --
          Linda Rathgeber [PVII] **Adobe Community Expert-Fireworks**
          --------------------------------------------------------------
          http://www.projectseven.com
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          • 2. Re: Fonts sizes do not match from Fireworks to coding   software
            geez_a_ree Level 1
            Thanks for your reply Linda, do you know if there is a conversion formula from pixels to points? The programmers I'm working with say there software only out puts fonts using points?

            thanks again
            • 3. Re: Fonts sizes do not match from Fireworks to coding     software
              Level 7
              geez a ree wrote:
              > Thanks for your reply Linda, do you know if there is a conversion
              > formula from pixels to points? The programmers I'm working with say
              > there software only out puts fonts using points?

              None that I'm aware of, geez.

              Fireworks uses pixel sizes because it was developed for screen images.
              Since images on screen are measured in pixels, sizing fonts by pixel was
              the only way that really made sense. Applications developed for images
              to be printed measure characters in points because that's the way
              printers measure them.


              --
              Linda Rathgeber [PVII] **Adobe Community Expert-Fireworks**
              --------------------------------------------------------------
              http://www.projectseven.com
              Fireworks Newsgroup: news://forums.projectseven.com/fireworks/
              CSS Newsgroup: news://forums.projectseven.com/css/
              Design Aid Kits: http://www.webdevbiz.com/pwf/index.cfm
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              • 4. Re: Fonts sizes do not match from Fireworks to coding  software
                Level 7
                On Sat, 01 Jul 2006 19:00:59 +0400, geez a ree
                <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote:

                > Thanks for your reply Linda, do you know if there is a conversion
                > formula from pixels to points? The programmers I'm working with say
                > there software only out puts fonts using points?

                As long as I rememnber, point is 1/72 of inch. Conversion from pixels to
                inches involves your image resolution in pixels per inch. I guess that's
                enough info to recalculate stuff from pixels to points via inches ;-)

                The main source of your problem is that OS and software have to assume
                some resolution for recalculating points to pixels for on-screen display
                of fonts. Old Mac habit is assuming 72 ppi (that is, one pixel per one
                point) and old Windows habit is assuming 96 ppi (average resolution of
                monitors of Win95 era). Don't know for current Macs, but what as to
                current Windows boxes, this assumption does not match *real* monitor
                resolution in most of the cases. Still, it is kept as something
                programmers already got used to.

                --
                Ilya Razmanov
                http://photoshop.msk.ru - Photoshop plug-in filters
                • 5. Re: Fonts sizes do not match from Fireworks to coding  software
                  Level 7
                  On Sat, 1 Jul 2006, Ilya Razmanov wrote

                  >The main source of your problem is that OS and software have to assume
                  >some resolution for recalculating points to pixels for on-screen
                  >display of fonts.
                  >Old Mac habit is assuming 72 ppi (that is, one pixel per one point)
                  >and old Windows habit is assuming 96 ppi (average resolution of
                  >monitors of Win95 era). Don't know for current Macs, but what as to
                  >current Windows boxes, this assumption does not match *real* monitor
                  >resolution in most of the cases. Still, it is kept as something
                  >programmers already got used to.

                  There are no assumptions involved.

                  Screen ppi (pixels per inch) is the number of screen pixels divided by
                  physical screen dimension in inches.

                  The 96 and 72 values are dpi (dots per inch) where the dots are pixels
                  but the inches are screen logical inches and _not_ screen physical
                  inches.

                  There is no direct, or assumed, relationship between ppi and dpi. The
                  sole purpose of dpi is to translate a font size in points (inches) into
                  font size in pixels.

                  More detailed explanations at http://www.emdpi.com

                  --
                  Richard Mason
                  http://www.emdpi.com
                  • 6. Re: Fonts sizes do not match from Fireworks to coding  software
                    Level 7
                    On Sun, 02 Jul 2006 03:25:06 +0400, Richard Mason <whitneyrm@xtra.co.nz>
                    wrote:

                    > Screen ppi (pixels per inch) is the number of screen pixels divided by
                    > physical screen dimension in inches.
                    >
                    > The 96 and 72 values are dpi (dots per inch) where the dots are pixels
                    > but the inches are screen logical inches and _not_ screen physical
                    > inches.
                    >
                    > There is no direct, or assumed, relationship between ppi and dpi. The
                    > sole purpose of dpi is to translate a font size in points (inches) into
                    > font size in pixels.

                    I'm afraid people related to some print areas may question the definition
                    of "dots" and "dpi". Unless, of course, you provide us with universal
                    definitions of points, dots, DBUs and, apparently, inches (I'm afraid we
                    are about to have problems even with inches). However, that was not my
                    main point. My main point was that software have to translate these units
                    somehow, and the "metric" sometimes do not match.

                    --
                    Ilya Razmanov
                    http://photoshop.msk.ru - Photoshop plug-in filters
                    • 7. Re: Fonts sizes do not match from Fireworks to coding  software
                      Level 7
                      On Sun, 2 Jul 2006, Ilya Razmanov wrote

                      >I'm afraid people related to some print areas may question the
                      >definition of "dots" and "dpi".

                      They would, because print is different to screen. The OPs question was
                      about bitmaps and not printing. I don't cover printing on my site
                      because it's another topic.

                      >Unless, of course, you provide us with universal definitions of
                      >points, dots, DBUs and, apparently, inches (I'm afraid we are about to
                      >have problems even with inches).

                      I do give definitions on the site. As for "universal" the terms I use
                      are universal in the Windows world, except when even Microsoft
                      documentation gets it wrong. Documentation, in a large company, is
                      seldom written by the people who write the software - they have better
                      things to do -:)
                      The concept of screen logical inches, as opposed to screen physical
                      inches, is difficult because they are both referred to as just inches.
                      Logical inches are referred to in Microsoft documentation and a problem,
                      as with most Microsoft documentation, is that they almost never explain
                      what they mean. They take it for granted that if you need to read it
                      then you know what it means. This document mentions logical inches in
                      the last paragraph.
                      < http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/gdi/fon
                      text_56yb.asp>

                      >However, that was not my main point. My main point was that software
                      >have to translate these units somehow, and the "metric" sometimes do
                      >not match.

                      Could you give an example of this "mismatch:?


                      --
                      Richard Mason
                      http://www.emdpi.com
                      • 8. Re: Fonts sizes do not match from Fireworks to coding  software
                        Level 7
                        On Mon, 03 Jul 2006 13:00:02 +0400, Richard Mason <whitneyrm@xtra.co.nz>
                        wrote:

                        > Could you give an example of this "mismatch:?

                        It's not remated to original question but for me personally the biggest
                        surprise was when I found out that "traditional" points seem to have
                        slightly different size in US and most of the Europe.

                        --
                        Ilya Razmanov
                        http://photoshop.msk.ru - Photoshop plug-in filters