16 Replies Latest reply on May 12, 2010 5:03 PM by Larry Tseng

    Color Management for PDFs in Acrobat

    Gernot Hoffmann Level 3
      I'm preparing a PDF where all images are in AdobeRGB(98)
      but without embedded profiles.
      The global Output Intent is AdobeRGB(98).

      1. Is this Output Intent profile embedded ?

      My standard settings in Acrobat Professional 7 are:
      RGB: sRGB
      CMYK: ISOCoated
      Gray: Black Ink ISO Coated
      Output Intent overrides working spaces (checked)

      In my environment the images are shown correctly,
      which means that sRGB is replaced by AdobeRGB(98).

      What happens for average users who have only the free
      Acrobat Reader ?

      2. Is there any Color Management in 'Reader' ?

      Best regards --Gernot Hoffmann
        • 1. Re: Color Management for PDFs in Acrobat
          Gernot Hoffmann Level 3
          The official name is 'Adobe Reader'.

          Is anybody able to extract here
          http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/matrix.html
          the information, whether Adobe Reader is equipped
          with Color Management ?

          This is the PDF (2MB) with all images in AdobeRGB,
          no profiles embedded per image, but with the global
          Output Intent AdobeRGB(1998):
          http://www.fho-emden.de/~hoffmann/labproof15092008.pdf

          Best regards --Gernot Hoffmann
          • 2. Re: Color Management for PDFs in Acrobat
            Larry Tseng Level 1
            Gernot, sorry--too busy to experiment.

            I did a quick test with a gamma 1.0 rgb image and Adobe Reader 9 behaves as expected, i.e., with color management. You might want to do some screen grabs to study the issue further. Reader 9 can coexist with Acrobat 7 in Windows XP. I'll email you my test images.

            Regards, Larry
            • 3. Re: Color Management for PDFs in Acrobat
              Gernot Hoffmann Level 3
              Larry,

              thanks for your post - very helpful.
              1. Test images, self explaining.
              2. Information that Adobe Reader is color managed
              3. Reader 9 can co-exist with Acrobat 7.
              I'll download Reader 9 and see, how the color management
              has to be parameterized.

              Best regards --Gernot Hoffmann
              • 4. Re: Color Management for PDFs in Acrobat
                Gusgsm Level 2
                Gernot,<br /><br />"1. Is this Output Intent profile embedded ?"<br /><br />In this particular PDF, the answer is 'yes'.<br /><br />I Opened the PDF with a demo of PDFCanopener and I saw, inside the DestOutputprofile:<br /><br /><pre><br /><code><br />Cos Type: Stream<br />Indirect Object:<br />    ID: 953<br />    Generation: 0<br />Stream Bytes: 281<br />Decoded Bytes: 560<br />Encoding:  PDFText<br /><br /><Start Stream><br />0ADBEmntrRGB XYZ Ï<br />acspAPPLnone<br />öÖÓ-ADBE<br /><br /><br />cprtü2desc0kwtpt<br />bkpt°rTRCÄ<br />gTRCÔbTRCärXYZô<br />gXYZbXYZ<br />textCopyright 1999 Adobe Systems Incorporated<br />descAdobe RGB (1998)<br /><br /><br />XYZ óQÌXYZ <br />curv3curv3<br />curv3XYZ <br />O¥üXYZ 4 ,XYZ &1/¾<br /><End Stream><br /></code><br /></pre><br /><br />And PitStop can extract the profile.<br /><br />If you open picture by picture with Photoshop, no one has an ICC profile assigned. Same in Acrobat-PitStop: Plain RGB with no profile.<br /><br />Hope this answers question(1).<br /><br />PS. I inserted some carriage returns in the code as it seems to defile the forum display.
                • 5. Re: Color Management for PDFs in Acrobat
                  Gernot Hoffmann Level 3
                  Gustavo,

                  thanks for the investigation. Yes, no image has an
                  assigned profile, but I didn't know whether the
                  Output Profile was embedded.
                  It's a kind of PDF/X-1a style, but with RGB instead
                  of CMYK.

                  Meanwhile I followed Larry's recommendations and down-
                  loaded Adobe Reader 9.
                  The test shows (by appearance) that the Output Intent
                  is honoured, but Color Management settings are implicit.
                  No choice, opposed to Acrobat 7.

                  Unfortunately, Reader 9 is now the default PDF inter-
                  preter, and I don't know how to define again Acrobat 7
                  as default.

                  Best regards --Gernot Hoffmann
                  • 6. Re: Color Management for PDFs in Acrobat
                    Gernot Hoffmann Level 3
                    This
                    "no image has an assigned profile"
                    should have been
                    "no image has an embedded profile"
                    G.H.
                    • 7. Re: Color Management for PDFs in Acrobat
                      Gusgsm Level 2
                      Gernot,

                      I believe PDFs store profiles 'outside' pictures, so they are assigned not really embedded.

                      But I may be quite wrong.
                      • 8. Re: Color Management for PDFs in Acrobat
                        Larry Tseng Level 1
                        Gernot,

                        > 1. Is this Output Intent profile embedded ?

                        You can find out whether a profile is associated with the Output Intent by running preflight in Acrobat 7. Try Advanced/Preflight/Compatibility with Acrobat 5, for example. When done, look for Overview/Output Intents in the result panel. You should see aRGB there (for your rather interesting doc).

                        As to whether it is actually embedded in the pdf file will require some testing to confirm. Perhaps you can inspect the contents of two versions of the pdf with a text/binary editor (a variation of Gustavo's method) if logical deduction isn't good enough.

                        > Unfortunately, Reader 9 is now the default PDF interpreter, and I don't know how to define again Acrobat 7 as default.

                        Do you mean that Reader 9 launches instead of Acrobat 7 when you double click on a pdf file icon? If so, this should allow you to change it back:

                        http://kb.iu.edu/data/adhc.html

                        Regards, Larry
                        • 9. Re: Color Management for PDFs in Acrobat
                          Gernot Hoffmann Level 3
                          Larry,

                          Preflight for Digital Color Press (for instance) contains
                          Output Intents. No need for the somewhat arbitrary
                          comparison with Acrobat 5.
                          As you're saying: the Output Intent is assigned as
                          AdobeRGB(1998), but this doesn't mean that the file
                          is embedded. I read in the help text that such a
                          profile is either embedded or mentioned by name,
                          then referring to a usually available profile at the
                          receiver.
                          Gustavo's method seems to show that the profile is
                          really embedded (header information is readable).

                          My doc consumes without Output Intent 1.915.627 bytes
                          and with OI 1.945.353 bytes. The difference is almost
                          30 kBytes. Not understandable, because the ICC profile
                          itself has about 0.5 kBytes.

                          I had to uninstall Adobe Reader, because my old browser
                          Netscape 7.1 couldn't be convinced to use Acrobat 7 by
                          default, despite assignments in Windows and Netscape
                          itself.

                          Thanks for the discussion and your help.

                          Best regards --Gernot Hoffmann
                          • 10. Re: Color Management for PDFs in Acrobat
                            Ramón G Castañeda Level 4
                            Firefox 3.0.1 is fully color managed now, not by default, but it can easily be so configured. I don't know about Netscape.
                            • 11. Re: Color Management for PDFs in Acrobat
                              Gernot Hoffmann Level 3
                              Ramón,

                              color management for PDFs is established in Adobe Acrobat
                              and Adobe Reader (as we know now). This independent of the
                              browser.

                              Best regards --Gernot Hoffmann
                              • 12. Re: Color Management for PDFs in Acrobat
                                Ramón G Castañeda Level 4
                                Yes, I never meant to imply that the issue was linked to the browser.

                                Just wondering whether Netscape is color managed or not. That's all.
                                • 13. Re: Color Management for PDFs in Acrobat
                                  Gusgsm Level 2
                                  Now that it comes, Firefox is (can be) colour managed with a plugin. But I wonder 'how much' colour managed is really that colour management.

                                  Just wondering myself.
                                  • 14. Re: Color Management for PDFs in Acrobat
                                    Ramón G Castañeda Level 4
                                    Gustavo,

                                    Firefox 3.0.1 does NOT need any plug-in whatsoever to enable color management.

                                    You enable it in Preferences (accesible by typing about:config in the address bar).

                                    You can then go to any number of sites that offer color mnagaement tests, such as

                                    http://www.color.org/version4html.xalter

                                    It works, very, very well,

                                    Firefox is the ONLY color managed web browser that renders untagged images created in sRGB correctly (by assuming and assigning sRGB).

                                    Safari, the other color managed web browser, unfortunately follows Apple's ghastly practice of assigning Monitor RGB to all untagged images. This has a catastrophic effect on untagged images saved in sRGB if one happens to be using a Wide Gamut monitor.

                                    All Apple applications, from the Finder through Preview and iPhoto to Safari have this defect of throwing Monitor RGB at untagged images.

                                    The problem is compounded by the fact that, currently, Flash transforms all tagged images into untagged ones. (Adobe has announced that help is coming with Flash.)

                                    But Firefox's color management works beautifully.
                                    • 15. Re: Color Management for PDFs in Acrobat
                                      sarkrishnan

                                      Can you please help me? I am trying to explore the color management in Adobe reader 9. I have a pdf X1a file with a picture that has embedded CMYK profile. In Acrobat 9, I could see the output preview with paper white simulation. Can such a simulation be done in Adobe reader 9.0?

                                      • 16. Re: Color Management for PDFs in Acrobat
                                        Larry Tseng Level 1

                                        Hello Sarkrishnan,

                                         

                                        I don't see any regular color management controls for the user in the Reader, let alone soft proofing controls. So I guess the answer would be no, if I understand your question correctly.

                                        --Larry