27 Replies Latest reply on Oct 19, 2008 2:46 PM by (Daniel_Firl)

    Older Kodak RAW image files and PS2-PS3

      Hello All
      Ive a collection of RAW image files captured with a early Kodak SLR digital camera, the DCS315. Tried to open them with both PS2 and PS3 on MAC G-5 Computers, one running 10.4 the other 10.5 and the images looked fricking horrible in the camera raw converter window. Shadow areas blacked out, red/orange cast over image, just unrecoverable. But the same images on same DVD in a MAC G-4, OS 10.2 with PS 7, look great. Guess I need a plug in or update to make the later versions of PS work with these image files.
      I tired to reach this link~ http://www.adobe.com/support/downloads/product.jsp?product=39&platform=Macintosh
      Where older version of camera raw are available for CS and CS 2, but the link is not working. Any ideas, solutions , salvations??!

      Thanks for any help given
      David
        • 1. Re: Older Kodak RAW image files and PS2-PS3
          JimHess-8IPblY Level 3
          It would seem to me that if these images are opening in Photoshop 7 then they are not true raw images. Photoshop 7 only supported a very few cameras, and it was with a separate program that is no longer available as far as I know.

          If my first supposition is true, then your best bet would probably be to save them as JPEG images in Photoshop 7, and then open those JPEG images in ACR in Photoshop CS3. If this isn't the solution, then I don't know what to say.
          • 2. Re: Older Kodak RAW image files and PS2-PS3
            Level 1
            Hi Jim~

            Thanks for the input! A little more info, I would say the images are true raw, it is the camera raw convert that opens the images first.
            I can always load PS-7 onto the G-5 computers to convert these images to tiff or psd files and then work on them in CS3 if I wanted too. But it would be convenient if I could convert all my RAW images regardless of which camera they were captured with into tiff,psd,jpg..ect without keeping multiple version of Photoshop on the computer.

            bye for now
            David
            • 3. Re: Older Kodak RAW image files and PS2-PS3
              JimHess-8IPblY Level 3
              I cannot speak for Adobe. I don't know anyone there, nor do they know me. But my guess is that if a camera that old is not supported now it probably will not be added in the future.
              • 4. Re: Older Kodak RAW image files and PS2-PS3
                Ramón G Castañeda Level 4
                David,

                All releases of ACR include support for ALL cameras supported in older versions.

                These are the Kodak models supported in ACR 4.4.1:


                Kodak
                DCS 14n
                DCS Pro 14nx
                DCS720x
                DCS760
                DCS Pro SLR/n
                EasyShare P712
                EasyShare P850
                EasyShare P880

                I strongly suspect you have other problems and they sound machine specific, or image specific. Jaguar, OS 10.2.x, was and remains the worst piece of garbage released by Apple.
                • 5. Re: Older Kodak RAW image files and PS2-PS3
                  JimHess-8IPblY Level 3
                  But the camera David indicates that he has is not on the list of supporting cameras. So why does that indicate other problems with his system?
                  • 6. Re: Older Kodak RAW image files and PS2-PS3
                    Ramón G Castañeda Level 4
                    Jim,

                    He hasn't said which camera, but he seems to assert that he's able to open the raw files from that camera in ACR 1.x under Photoshop 7.x. So the camera has to be one of the supported ones on the list, or he's feeding us a bunch of misinformation. :/
                    • 7. Re: Older Kodak RAW image files and PS2-PS3
                      JimHess-8IPblY Level 3
                      Well, unless I'm not reading things correctly, his opening statement is, "Ive a collection of RAW image files captured with a early Kodak SLR digital camera, the DCS315." If I read the supported list correctly, that model isn't supported. There is something inconsistent here.
                      • 8. Re: Older Kodak RAW image files and PS2-PS3
                        Ramón G Castañeda Level 4
                        You're right, Jim. I missed the model number.

                        According to this review:
                        http://www.steves-digicams.com/dcs315.html
                        that camera does NOT even generate raw images. :/

                        The OP is feeding us misinformation.
                        • 9. Re: Older Kodak RAW image files and PS2-PS3
                          JimHess-8IPblY Level 3
                          From the review:

                          TIF Custom stores the "raw" captured image in Kodak proprietary format with a filesize of 1.75MB. This image can be finished later as a 1520x1008 standard TIF file (4.4MB) on the computer. The Kodak host application software provides additional image processing features such as fixed illuminant compensation (daylight, tungsten, fluorescent and flash), custom (i.e. "click") white balance, and nine finished JPEG file formats (three levels of spatial resolution and three levels of JPEG compression quality.)

                          So, is it a raw image or not?
                          • 10. Re: Older Kodak RAW image files and PS2-PS3
                            Ramón G Castañeda Level 4
                            Ah! The old fake "TIFF" files Kodak gave a wrong extension to! I had forgotten all about those.

                            Maybe Kodak provided some kind of converter that works with Ps 7.x?

                            Too much trouble to go for a 1.5 megapixel image, isn't it?
                            • 11. Re: Older Kodak RAW image files and PS2-PS3
                              JimHess-8IPblY Level 3
                              That is just what I was thinking. When you consider that the raw files from my camera are 18 MB, 1.75 MB isn't going to produce much of an image.
                              • 12. Re: Older Kodak RAW image files and PS2-PS3
                                Level 1
                                Hello again~

                                Ramon, re-read my first post, youll find the camera model was a DCS315. I did error in the version of PhotoShop that opens and converts the image files correctly. Its not 7, but PhotoShop 8 on the G-4. Just to fill in the rest of the picture, the ACR is version 2 and the OS on the G-4 is 10.3.9
                                But, regardless of which older ver. of ACR converts these Kodak RAWs correctly. It seems the current version of ACR is lacking the ability to work with at less one type of RAW file. I wonder if theres others that have slipped though the cracks.

                                David
                                • 13. Re: Older Kodak RAW image files and PS2-PS3
                                  Ramón G Castañeda Level 4
                                  What may be happening is that Ps 7.x ( not ACR) is opening an embedded JPEG preview, while ACR 4.4.1 is attempting to open the fake TIFF. That has to result in disaster.
                                  • 14. Re: Older Kodak RAW image files and PS2-PS3
                                    Ramón G Castañeda Level 4
                                    David,

                                    Read my post #13. I hadn't read your post #12 until right now.

                                    There's is no way that a raw file supported in ACR 2.x is not supported in ACR 4.x. No way.

                                    What may be happening is that Ps 8.x ( not ACR) is opening an embedded JPEG preview, while ACR 4.4.1 is attempting to open the fake TIFF. That has to result in disaster.

                                    See, ACR 2.x and 3.x do not have a capability to process TIFFs, but ACR 4.1 and later versions do.

                                    So, ACR 2.x hosted by Ps 8 makes absolutely no attempt to process the fake TIFFs from the Kodak camera, and Ps by itself opens the embedded JPEG (e.g. the one the camera uses for the LCD in-camera preview), which looks OK to you.

                                    But, since ACR 4.4.1 does support and process TIFFs, it is attempting to open the non-supported Kodak file masquerading as a TIFF, which results in the mess you are seeing.

                                    It is unfortunate and disgraceful that Kodak misused the TIFF extension for a proprietary "uncompressed raw" file format. It is just plain wrong, and it's confusing the hell out of ACR, which is trying to open those files as if they were TIFFs.

                                    Those Kodak fake TIFF/raw files have NEVER been supported by ACR.

                                    Hopefully, TK and his team will confirm this.
                                    • 15. Re: Older Kodak RAW image files and PS2-PS3
                                      Ramón G Castañeda Level 4
                                      Here's something you can try to verify this:

                                      Download the trial version of FileJuicer and run it to extract all embedded images and/or previews in one of those Kodak files.
                                      • 16. Re: Older Kodak RAW image files and PS2-PS3
                                        dudu307
                                        David,

                                        Are you sure it's ACR and not a Kodak plug-in that is opening your files in PS8?

                                        Just a thought....
                                        • 17. Re: Older Kodak RAW image files and PS2-PS3
                                          Level 1
                                          Jeff, Ramon and Dudu; Thank you very much for your ideas and helpful comments regarding this issue.

                                          So heres the short of it is, CS-3 & ACR 4+ will not properly convert the compressed (RAWs, not RAWs, sort of RAWs) images files created from the Kodak DCS315. But, PS-8 with ACR 2 has whatever magic wand is needed to get the job done and done correctly. Never throw your old copies of software away!!
                                          A bit of a pain in the neck, but not the worst-case scenario, just an extra step when working with these older images. Convert in 8, work in CS 3 to make use of latest and greatest features adobe has to offer.

                                          Again Thanks for the help guys.
                                          David
                                          • 18. Re: Older Kodak RAW image files and PS2-PS3
                                            MadManChan2000 Adobe Employee
                                            David, there is something strange going on.

                                            ACR 4 does indeed support the Kodak DCS 315. I have a Kodak DCS 315 raw file right here (yes, with the .tif extension) and it opens and converts properly in PS CS3 with ACR 4.4.1.

                                            I'm on Mac OS X Leopard 10.5.2.
                                            • 19. Re: Older Kodak RAW image files and PS2-PS3
                                              JimHess-8IPblY Level 3
                                              According to the list of supported cameras, this model is NOT supported, unless this was an accidental exclusion from the list. Perhaps the image was converted to a regular TIF image, which can then be opened in ACR 4.4. But TIF images cannot be opened in ACR for Photoshop CS. That is a feature that was only added in the 4.x versions of ACR.

                                              The puzzling thing to me, though, is trying to understand what is happening in Photoshop CS that allows David to edit these images.
                                              • 20. Re: Older Kodak RAW image files and PS2-PS3
                                                Thomas Knoll Level 2
                                                This camera is "unofficially" supported by Camera Raw. In this case, this means that I added support based on a single sample file, not an actual camera, and I can make no quality guarantees. If it happens to work, fine. If not, too bad.

                                                This support has been constant for quite a while. If is very unlikely that it worked "well" in Photoshop CS but now does not work "well" in Photoshop CS3 with a newer Camera Raw version.

                                                What is almost certainly happening is the OP has the Kodak plug-in installed on his copy of Photoshop CS, which overrides Camera Raw.
                                                • 21. Re: Older Kodak RAW image files and PS2-PS3
                                                  PECourtejoie Adobe Community Professional
                                                  Thomas, would it help if the OP sent you some peculiar files with given settings in order to fine-tune the ACR support?

                                                  I'm wondering how many cameras are "unofficially" supported by ACR.

                                                  David, check the About>Plug-ins menu to see if you have a Kodak plug-in on the CS machine.
                                                  • 22. Re: Older Kodak RAW image files and PS2-PS3
                                                    I see that the above posts are a bit old, but just for the record: I can confirm that images shot with my Kodak DCS 315 will look very different in ACR CS1 compared to ACR CS3. In CS3, the blacks will be severely crushed (lost shadow detail). It is not possible to adjust the settings in ACR CS3 so as to regain the shadow detail available in ACR CS1.

                                                    This is _very_ unnerving for those of us shooting RAW today. I always thought that once support for my camera(s) was available in ACR, it would remain in future versions. It is very important to have access to your archived images. Now, I'm no longer certain what my images will look like in 10 years! Reading Mr Knoll's comment, I really hope that the case with the DCS 315 is an exception.

                                                    I can supply samples from my DCS 315 if necessary.
                                                    • 23. Re: Older Kodak RAW image files and PS2-PS3
                                                      MadManChan2000 Adobe Employee
                                                      Daniel, as noted above the DCS 315 is not officially supported. Consequently all bets are off.
                                                      • 24. Re: Older Kodak RAW image files and PS2-PS3
                                                        Level 1
                                                        It's ok with me to use an older version in this case. I just wanted to clarify, since there seemed to be some confusion.

                                                        If I understand you correctly, and this is what concerns me, the issue with the DCS 315 is unique and will never concern cameras that have shown up in the list of officially supported cameras?
                                                        • 25. Re: Older Kodak RAW image files and PS2-PS3
                                                          MadManChan2000 Adobe Employee
                                                          It depends on which versions you're comparing. There are always going to be changes in some form or another between sufficiently distant versions. For example, if you're comparing sharpening between version >= 4.1 and version < 4.1, it's going to be different because capture sharpening was improved significantly starting with 4.1. Similarly if you're using one of the new color profiles in 4.5 and then take the same image and try to convert with a version prior to 4.5, it won't work at all because versions prior to 4.5 don't support the extended DNG color profiles.

                                                          If there's a particular rendering that you're attached to, then ultimately it should be archived by rendering it to pixels.
                                                          • 26. Re: Older Kodak RAW image files and PS2-PS3
                                                            Support for the older Kodak DCS cameras is limited these days, but there's still hope. Unfortunately, Kodak's own DCS file format module (i.e. plug-in) doesn't work with CS3, but here's a free, stand-alone Windows program that uses Kodak's own support files to read files from most of the early models:

                                                            http://www.nikonweb.com/DCS_convert/

                                                            Disclaimer: I'm the author of this software. It's a simple program, but it works. I wrote it to be able to convert my own Kodak DCS files, and to help other users do the same.

                                                            Alternatively, you can also use dcraw. It's more awkward to use, but produces good results and works with most operating systems. Here's a brief overview I wrote recently: http://www.nikonweb.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=328

                                                            With a little research you'll find that there are other programs as well. There's no need to throw away your old DCS files.

                                                            Jarle
                                                            • 27. Re: Older Kodak RAW image files and PS2-PS3
                                                              David what kodak version are you using? pixel.gif