11 Replies Latest reply on Aug 16, 2008 10:07 AM by MadManChan2000

    DNG Profile Editor - questions about

    Level 1
      0) Thank to Eric Chan for your work on this. Until now I used the Camera Calibration process through Photoshop and Camera Calibration table. But I see this as a big progress.

      1) Will it stay only DNG editor or it will be also for raw pictures without a necessity to convert them to dng?

      2) Will it be only stand alone aplication or as well a part of the LR?

      3) Now I can switched off and on one color change (by the left mark in the Color List Box). Could it be possible to switch off and on the whole Color List Box to see all done changes?

      4) I have red your comment that this tool doesn't work with lightness, only hue and saturation. But if I want to work on a specific picture (i.e. a man wearing a red sweater), it will be fine to have it in the brightness close to an end picture. Will it be possible to open a picture not only with WB, but also with exposure, blacks and other basic development setting?

      5) Under the eye drop tool, I can see numbers of "initial" or "starting" color. But I can't see the numbers of changed color. It would be fine if I know the new numbers to see how close I am to them. It would be fine if the number over the color List Box will be also for starting color and also for end colors.
      And one little proposal: if the color will not change, show in Color List Box only the starting (left) half of a color. Than I can simply see that I didn't set a new color or the color stay exactly the same (it is only a question if exactly the same or very close to the same).

      6) It could be, that I will not use the exact color checker table for what you did process on the tab Chart. But many of color checker are delivered with exact numbers and picture on a cd, so it will be fine if I could open this "master" picture of a checker producer in a right panel under the Color List Box and simply take from it the end colors. First go to the main picture on left, choose the "initial color" and then simply go to this "master" picture in right and take the "end color". What do you think about this?

      7) If I work on the tab Chart, I get the error window "not neutral gray patches, row 4 culumn 1". But if I move the circle to row 4 culumn 2 it works fine. Is there any difference or problem?

      8) And last: how far is acting the shift of color. It will not work only for the one color but close surroundings will be also efeccted. How smal or large is the surroundings? E.g. if we take 360 degres for hue.

      Tom
        • 1. Re: DNG Profile Editor - questions about
          MadManChan2000 Adobe Employee
          1. For now DNG-only. Here's why:

          http://labs.adobe.com/wiki/index.php/DNG_Profiles_FAQ#PEOnlyDNG
          http://labs.adobe.com/wiki/index.php/DNG_Profiles_FAQ#WhyNameDNGPE
          http://labs.adobe.com/wiki/index.php/DNG_Profiles_FAQ#WhyPESeparate

          2. Standalone for now. See above links for why.

          3. Use the 'Preview Color Changes' option in the Options menu.

          4. You can use 'Apply Raw Adjustments' in the Options menu to see your raw adjustments. This is __not__ recommended for building a general-purpose profile because you are then optimizing a profile with specific image adjustments in mind, rather than building a profile based more on the inherent camera characteristics.

          5. True, that is a limitation of this implementation.

          6. I am not sure what you mean. The Chart Wizard automatically optimizes the color patches in a test shot based on reference values for many physical charts, which is more practically useful than the numbers printed on the reference card that comes with the chart.

          7. Make sure you avoid color casts in the bottom row. The PE is picky about making sure your gray patches are relatively neutral. It is an attempt to help you get a better profile.

          8. Use 'Show Affected Colors' from the Options menu.

          You may wish to read this page carefully and thoroughly:

          documentation

          It is the reference online documentation for the DNG Profile Editor and a few of the things you wish to do, such as preview all color changes, apply raw adjustments, and visualize the extent of each color adjustment, are all documented there.
          • 2. Re: DNG Profile Editor - questions about
            Level 1
            Thanks for your answer!

            Tom
            • 3. Re: DNG Profile Editor - questions about
              michael shaffer Level 1
              > 7. Make sure you avoid color casts in the bottom row. The PE is picky about making sure your gray patches are relatively neutral. It is an attempt to help you get a better profile.

              One thing I had noticed regarding the last row having a color cast, is that I may get a "significant color cast" error. Thinking this may be normal, or PE being sensitive, I used a right-clik on the 2nd 'lt gray' patch, which changed the Wb, but then it would give me the same error when I tried to build a profile because it changed back to the original Wb.

              I believe the original Wb is the "as shot" value, but there are reasons why the camera didn't possibly read the exact Wb, especially relative to the R4C2 patch (which PE probably depends on being accurate). Why doesn't this Wb modification stick?
              • 4. Re: DNG Profile Editor - questions about
                MadManChan2000 Adobe Employee
                The validity of the profile depends on a proper white balance. Therefore, PE automatically uses the gray patch in row 4, column 2, to perform WB when building a profile using Chart Wizard. It doesn't matter what you've set the WB to previously; Chart Wizard will override it.
                • 5. Re: DNG Profile Editor - questions about
                  Level 1
                  Eric,
                  I don't know if you know: there is the same problem as in LR 2,0 in the PE.

                  If I want to export directly to CameraProfiles folder but on the way is an "odd" symbol (e.g. some letters from Czech alfabet - (Data aplikací - AppData) it will not work. Recipe is possible to save but not the exported profile. It says "Export profile failed". If you choose a folder with an adress without "odd" symbols, it works fine.

                  This behavior I found on XP prof SP2. On Ultimate 64 bit (both Czech version) works fine. But the reason is the name of the folder stayed in English (AppData). But if there will be a Czech letter ěčíá... it is a start for the same failure.
                  • 6. Re: DNG Profile Editor - questions about
                    MadManChan2000 Adobe Employee
                    Hi Tom, yes, this is a PE bug and will be fixed in the next PE update. Sorry for the inconvenience.
                    • 7. Re: DNG Profile Editor - questions about
                      Level 1
                      Hallo Eric,
                      I have strange behavior with my new profiles from PE. You can see it very good on skin tones.

                      In LR I did a picture with a profile "portrait" everything is OK and than I saved metadata (Ctrl + S) and opened it in CR. Setting was exactly the same as in LR including profile but the skin tones was too red. If I opened this picture from LR through Ctrl + E there was no problem.

                      If I used profile Adobe 4,4, there was no problem. Also the way through CR was OK.

                      profile portrait - problem
                      profile 4,4 - without problem

                      Have you ever seen this?

                      Ahoj Tom
                      • 8. Re: DNG Profile Editor - questions about
                        Level 1
                        my system is updated (10.0.1) + CR 4,5 + LR 1.4
                        W XP SP2 + W Ultimate 64

                        it is the same on both systems
                        • 9. Re: DNG Profile Editor - questions about
                          Thomas Knoll Level 2
                          To *Tom* (#7):

                          If you are using the PE, you MUST be using Lightroom 2.0 or Camera Raw 4.5. You can NOT use ANY older versions. You cannot use Lightroom 1.4.1. You cannot use Lightroom 2.0 beta. You cannot use Camera Raw 4.4.1.

                          Older versions do NOT support new profiles. You may be able to force them to load, but they will NOT display the correct colors.
                          • 10. Re: DNG Profile Editor - questions about
                            Level 1
                            "Eric Chan - 5:11am Aug 11, 08 PST (#4 of 9)

                            The validity of the profile depends on a proper white balance. Therefore, PE automatically uses the gray patch in row 4, column 2, to perform WB when building a profile using Chart Wizard. It doesn't matter what you've set the WB to previously; Chart Wizard will override it. "

                            That may be a useful "safety catch" that users may not start with a WB that is way off. However if you give the possibility and actually (somewhere) suggest to do a manual WB then you NEED to give that information to the user that any user set WB will be ignored (perhaps by a pop-up ifo box if you apply WB manually). If you do not give that information the "educated" user will be confused at the expense of the "casual user". :-)
                            • 11. Re: DNG Profile Editor - questions about
                              MadManChan2000 Adobe Employee
                              The Chart Wizard's auto-WB behavior is documented here:

                              http://labs.adobe.com/wiki/index.php/DNG_Profiles_FAQ#WBbeforeChartWizard