14 Replies Latest reply on Oct 6, 2008 4:13 PM by Jao vdL

    Color and brightness change going from Bridge Camera Raw thumbnail to workspace

    Richard Herman
      When I open a thumbnail NEF image on Bridge into the RAW workspace, the color, intensity, and brightness changes. The appearance of the thumbnail is very good, the same as on the viewer in the camera, but when it is opened into the RAW workspace in Bridge, the colors become muted, less red, less vibrant, and less bright. I've tried toggling between the auto and default, but this only seems to change the exposure. I am using a Nikon D80, an iMac (intel), OS 10.4.11, CS3. I calibrate the monitor with a Spyder 2. I don't understand why the RAW workspace image isn't the same as the thumbnail.
        • 1. Re: Color and brightness change going from Bridge Camera Raw thumbnail to workspace
          Level 1
          > I don't understand why the RAW workspace image isn't the same as the thumbnail.

          Because the camera maker is in charge of rendering the EXIF JPEG thumbnail and Camera Raw renders the same raw file differently...it's all about changing or altering your Camera Raw defaults in order to have the thumbnails rendered the way you want them. And, with Camera Raw 4.5/4.6 you can even come _VERY_ close to matching the camera JPEGS exactly (if you download the free beta DNG profiles from Labs.adobe.com).

          Also not that there is nothing sacred about the camera's rendering of a raw captures..it's only a "look" or interpretation of the raw data. It's not "accurate" by any stretch of the imagination. But since it's often the first interpretation of your raw file, you may fall in love with it. If so, the DNG Profiles are for you. Personally, I would rather have control over the rendering, not my camera...so, I couldn't care less what the camera maker thinks the raw file should look like...
          • 2. Re: Color and brightness change going from Bridge Camera Raw thumbnail to workspace
            Tim Lookingbill Level 1
            Just curious. Since you're on a Mac, what rendering do you get opening your raw file in Preview.

            I get the most accurate to what I saw through the lens color rendering overall with my Pentax PEF's in Preview over any other converter, but it's pretty crappy as a raw processor.

            I wonder where Preview gets its color rendering instructions from? They don't look like my incamera jpegs and they look far better than the default rendering in Pentax Photo Lab, Pentax's raw converter.
            • 3. Re: Color and brightness change going from Bridge Camera Raw thumbnail to workspace
              Jao vdL Adobe Community Professional & MVP
              >I wonder where Preview gets its color rendering instructions from? They don't look like my incamera jpegs and they look far better than the default rendering in Pentax Photo Lab, Pentax's raw converter.

              It's Apple's RAW engine that draws them, so the colors are based on Apple's camera profiles. You get the same rendering in Aperture as you see in preview.
              • 4. Re: Color and brightness change going from Bridge Camera Raw thumbnail to workspace
                Tim Lookingbill Level 1
                Thanks, Jao.

                I never realized I had a free converter sitting right on my desktop all this time. If you don't do any editing within Preview it'll allow you to save as a 16bit tiff assigning and converting to your color spaces of choice and fast too.
                • 5. Re: Color and brightness change going from Bridge Camera Raw thumbnail to workspace
                  Richard Herman Level 1
                  "Because the camera maker is in charge of rendering the EXIF JPEG thumbnail and Camera Raw renders the same raw file differently...it's all about changing or altering your Camera Raw defaults in order to have the thumbnails rendered the way you want them. And, with Camera Raw 4.5/4.6 you can even come _VERY_ close to matching the camera JPEGS exactly (if you download the free beta DNG profiles from Labs.adobe.com)."
                  Thanks for the information. I've heard of but I'm not familiar with DNG. I guess by default, Bridge imports the images from my camera and saves them as NEF files. In my workflow I manipulate the image in Camera Raw, save the manipulated image as a TIFF file, and then continue to save the NEF as well. Should I be working DNG into my workflow? Would I then be working in Camera Raw with the DNG image and does this have all of the information that the RAW image has.I am considering downloading the DNG and camera profiles, to try them out, just because my preview image in Camera Raw looks so much less vibrant than the thumbnail. The thumbnail appearance looks like it would be an easier starting point for my manipulations in Camera Raw.
                  • 6. Re: Color and brightness change going from Bridge Camera Raw thumbnail to workspace
                    Ramón G Castañeda Level 4
                    >I guess by default, Bridge imports the images from my camera and saves them as NEF files.

                    Bridge doesn't " import" anything, and it doesn't " save" anything either. The Photo Downloader in Bridge copies the raw images to your hard drive in whatever format your camera wrote them to the card.

                    The choice of using DNGs or not is a personal question, entirely up to you. You don't have to use DNGs in order to take advantage of the new, currently beta profiles. They work on any file ACR can open, RAW, JPEG or TIFF as well as DNG.

                    Remember, Bridge is just a browser. That's all.
                    • 7. Re: Color and brightness change going from Bridge Camera Raw thumbnail to workspace
                      I am using Bridge in CS3. When I open a picture in Bridge to do some work on the photo, I make the changes (such as white balance). Once I am satisfied with the picture I want these changes to take place in the actual file on my hard drive. How do I do this, since the changes I have made seem to appear only in Bridge, but if I open the file in windows and view the picture, the changes are not there. What do I need to do in order to make changes in Bridge and have these changes actually show up on the file when I am not in Bridge?
                      • 8. Re: Color and brightness change going from Bridge Camera Raw thumbnail to workspace
                        John Joslin Level 6
                        > When I open a picture in Bridge to do some work on the photo, ...

                        As Ramón says Bridge is a browser you don't "work on the Photo" in Bridge.

                        You have to either work in Photoshop or in Camera Raw. In each case saving the changes is a different process so you need to tell us what you're doing.
                        • 9. Re: Color and brightness change going from Bridge Camera Raw thumbnail to workspace
                          Yammer Level 4
                          If you load a photo into Camera Raw, any settings you make create developing metadata, which is associated with the image. If it's a raw file, CR may create a 'sidecar' file. If it's a JPEG, CR may tag the file.

                          Neither of these sets of appended data will be visible to any other image viewing application. They are for use by Camera Raw only.

                          Re-opening the image in Camera Raw will reload the settings you already made. To apply those settings, click the Open button, and a Conversion will be loaded into Photoshop.

                          I'm simplifying, but that's the basic idea.
                          • 10. Re: Color and brightness change going from Bridge Camera Raw thumbnail to workspace
                            This seems related to my problem. I just posted a question on this. However, my problem is it looks one way in camera raw (this is the way I want it to look for someone online or on there own computer), I save the file as a jpeg(with the icc file sRGB), and then the image turns very red. The only way to prevent this is, to turn off the icc files.

                            My concern is with no icc file, what will i get when I go to print. Comments?
                            • 11. Re: Color and brightness change going from Bridge Camera Raw thumbnail to workspace
                              Level 1
                              > My concern is with no icc file, what will i get when I go to print. Comments?

                              Don't do that. Really. JPEGS are a write-only output format. Save your jpegs to
                              get good jpegs, not to get good prints. Print from a tiff, psd, or raw file.

                              Your question then becomes 'how will the jpegs you've saved/exported look on
                              another person's screen and print on their printers?' This will vary depending
                              on the platform, viewing app, whether their system is calibrated or not, etc...
                              If your target is the web, make sure you try your images with the leading browsers.

                              I still haven't found a workflow for this that I'm happy with, but it's not yet
                              something I need to do frequently. I'm still trying to get a better handle on
                              the PhotoRGB->sRGB part of the process.

                              -X
                              • 12. Re: Color and brightness change going from Bridge Camera Raw thumbnail to workspace
                                JimHess-8IPblY Level 3
                                When working on images in Camera Raw, irregardless of whether they are raw files, JPEG or TIFF files, any modifications made to the image are stored as metadata. The pixels of the image are not changed at all by ACR. This is the same concept as Lightroom. If you want to provide an image that will reflect all of those changes it will be necessary for you to either save the image from ACR, or else open the images from ACR into Photoshop, perform any additional changes and then save a copy of the image. If you do this a lot, you might consider creating an action that will help you complete your processing. For instance, I have one action that opens each raw image (or JPEG or TIFF) and applies the adjustment layers that I commonly use and then saves each of those files as a new TIF. Then I go through each of those using Photoshop and make any additional adjustments that are required. Finally, I have another action that flattens those images, changes the color mode, converts them to 8-bit mode, and then flattens the image. From that point I use Dr. Brown's Image Processor to create other file formats such as JPEG when they are required.
                                • 13. Re: Color and brightness change going from Bridge Camera Raw thumbnail to workspace
                                  HI guys when I'm working on bridge there is a problem that drive me crazy. When I open all the thumbnails on the screen the photos are looking as the same way that I shoot it but as soon I select the picture even without opening just by click on the picture is change the White Balance and the colors. I'm using a Nikon D700 and a Nikon D300 camera and that only happen with the NEF files.

                                  Also I have a friend that have a Canon XSI and is suffering the same problem on his RAW files.

                                  Please some advise about what we can do.
                                  • 14. Re: Color and brightness change going from Bridge Camera Raw thumbnail to workspace
                                    Jao vdL Adobe Community Professional & MVP
                                    >Also I have a friend that have a Canon XSI and is suffering the same problem on his RAW files.
                                    Please some advise about what we can do.

                                    Download the camera matching profiles and use them. The shift is caused by different color rendering in ACR of your RAW files than the camera's rendering that you see by virtue of an embedded jpeg in the original RAW that Bridge shows you. Also make sure you are not applying auto-tone or any presets.