22 Replies Latest reply on Nov 5, 2008 2:28 AM by PECourtejoie

    Support for Panasonic Lumix LX3

      I hope that the developers are reading the forum. I'm told the product people normally do to gain insight on what we experience. PLEASE add the Panasonic LX3 to your next ACR update. I saw a list of cameras slated for Version 5 and it is not on there.
        • 1. Re: Support for Panasonic Lumix LX3
          CR Henderson Level 3
          A forum search would have found this:

          http://www.adobeforums.com/webx/.59b68fa4/2

          which would have lead you to this article:

          Eric Chan, "LR2 Does Not Support .rw2 RAW File" #14, 2 Oct 2008 5:30 am
          • 2. Re: Support for Panasonic Lumix LX3
            Thomas Knoll Level 2
            >PLEASE add the Panasonic LX3 to your next ACR update.

            FYI, these types of message have exactly ZERO impact on the Camera Raw/Lightroom camera support schedule.

            [Actually, they probably delay support by a few minutes since the developers do read the messages in these forums, and any time spend reading these forums take time away from actual development work.]
            • 3. Re: Support for Panasonic Lumix LX3
              Samoreen Level 2
              Hi,<br /><br /><Thomas_Knoll@adobeforums.com> a écrit dans le message de news: <br />59b6c819.1@webcrossing.la2eafNXanI...<br />>>  PLEASE add the Panasonic LX3 to your next ACR update.<br /><br />> FYI, these types of message have exactly ZERO impact on the<br />>Camera Raw/Lightroom camera support schedule.<br />>[Actually, they probably delay support by a few minutes since the <br />>developers<br />>do read the messages in these forums, and any time spend reading these<br />>forums take time away from actual development work.]<br /><br />Ahem, so what actually impacts the ACR/Lightroom camera support schedule?<br /><br />- Customer requests? In which case how to submit such requests if posting <br />them here has "zero" impact?<br />- Marketing data from camera manufacturers?<br />- Market studies made by Adobe?<br />- Direct requests from (and possible funding by) camera manufacturers?<br /><br />Thanks.<br /><br />-- <br />Patrick
              • 4. Re: Support for Panasonic Lumix LX3
                Level 1
                >Ahem, so what actually impacts the ACR/Lightroom camera support schedule?

                Uh, that would be engineer time available and the frequency of camera releases...

                >Direct requests from (and possible funding by) camera manufacturers?

                Is that a joke or an insult?
                • 5. Re: Support for Panasonic Lumix LX3
                  MadManChan2000 Adobe Employee
                  > Uh, that would be engineer time available and the frequency of camera releases...

                  With a notable exception: In the case of a properly generated in-camera DNG (such as from the recently-announced Casio EX-FH20), the answer is easy: zero dev time needed on our part, and zero waiting time by the customer.
                  • 6. Re: Support for Panasonic Lumix LX3
                    Samoreen Level 2
                    Jeff_Schewe@adobeforums.com wrote:
                    >> Ahem, so what actually impacts the ACR/Lightroom camera support
                    >> schedule?

                    > Uh, that would be engineer time available and the frequency of camera
                    > releases...

                    Just that? Customers really don't have any weight in the process?

                    >> Direct requests from (and possible funding by) camera
                    >> manufacturers?

                    > Is that a joke or an insult?

                    No insult intended. A partnership between camera manufacturers and
                    software editors wouldn't be that shocking. Is it? Don't tell me that
                    this never happened in any software house. For example, if Panasonic
                    really need that their RAW format to be supported in ACR/LR, they could
                    get in touch with Adobe and discuss how this could be arranged. For now,
                    they are providing Silkypix with the Lumix LX3, which is not a very
                    exciting solution.

                    --
                    Patrick
                    • 7. Re: Support for Panasonic Lumix LX3
                      michael shaffer Level 1
                      > For example, if Panasonic really need that their RAW format to be supported in ACR/LR, they could get in touch with Adobe and discuss how this could be arranged.

                      I don't believe there's a sole here that would disagree with you, but apparently the camera manufacturers would prefer that you use their software instead ... leastwise, their participation has been analogous to pulling teeth. Regarding Silkypix, raw development is all they do, and can probably deliver in half the time. Developing your Panny LX3 with ACR will be worth the relatively longer wait.

                      my CA0.02 :)
                      • 8. Re: Support for Panasonic Lumix LX3
                        JimHess-8IPblY Level 3
                        I'm probably oversimplifying the situation, but the way I look at it Adobe is the renegade here that is trying to steal the thunder of SOME manufacturers and their proprietary raw files. Why do you think there are so many proprietary formats? I think it's because they want more control over how their images are processed and over what software will have the capability to process them. I just don't think that they are worried about making sure Adobe can support their format. Adobe is not at the forefront of their planning department like the Adobe products are critical to the workflow of many of those who frequent these forums. Adobe's products are just another can on the shelf of the software supermarket as far as they are concerned.
                        • 9. Re: Support for Panasonic Lumix LX3
                          PECourtejoie Adobe Community Professional
                          Patrick, contact Panasonic, and ask them to collaborate with Adobe. Adobe can't know what camera will be released, and what are the specificities... Better yet, suggest that they output perfect DNGs as suggested here, to have day 1 support!

                          Look at the list of cameras supported by Camera Raw. It is not in the interest of Adobe to ignore a camera, and thus some share of the market... Patience is a virtue, and it is not Adobe's fault if some manufacturers don't use the opportunities offered by the DNG format.
                          • 10. Re: Support for Panasonic Lumix LX3
                            PECourtejoie Adobe Community Professional
                            Patrick, contact Panasonic, and ask them to collaborate with Adobe. Adobe can't know what camera will be released, and what are the specificities... Better yet, suggest that they output perfect DNGs as suggested here, to have day 1 support!

                            Look at the list of cameras supported by Camera Raw. It is not in the interest of Adobe to ignore a camera, and thus some share of the market... Patience is a virtue, and it is not Adobe's fault if some manufacturers don't use the opportunities offered by the DNG format.
                            • 11. Re: Support for Panasonic Lumix LX3
                              Samoreen Level 2
                              PECourtejoie@adobeforums.com wrote:
                              > Patrick, contact Panasonic, and ask them to collaborate with Adobe.
                              > Adobe can't know what camera will be released, and what are the
                              > specificities... Better yet, suggest that they output perfect DNGs as
                              > suggested here, to have day 1 support!


                              Hi,

                              I'm not the one who initially asked. I don't have an LX3 :-)) . I was
                              just curious after reading the answer made to virgil_fox.

                              --
                              Patrick
                              • 12. Re: Support for Panasonic Lumix LX3
                                Level 1
                                >> Ahem, so what actually impacts the ACR/Lightroom camera support
                                >> schedule?

                                > Uh, that would be engineer time available and the frequency of camera
                                > releases...

                                >Just that? Customers really don't have any weight in the process?

                                Nope...The camera Raw engineers have committed to support all new cameras that shoot raw. When they get support for a particular camera has ZERO to do with when customers want it and EVERYTHING to do with getting it done ASAP to the level of quality they deem required. So having customers harping on adding new camera support does ZERO to encourage the engineers and as Thomas indicated, may actually set back their efforts because they spend time reading the posts asking them to do something they absolutely will do anyway.
                                • 13. Re: Support for Panasonic Lumix LX3
                                  Samoreen Level 2
                                  Hi,<br /><br /><Jeff_Schewe@adobeforums.com> a écrit dans le message de news: <br />59b6c819.11@webcrossing.la2eafNXanI...<br />> Nope...The camera Raw engineers have committed to<br />> support all new cameras that shoot raw. When they<br />> get support for a particular camera has ZERO to do<br />> with when customers want it and EVERYTHING to<br />> do with getting it done ASAP to the level of quality<br />> they deem required. So having customers harping<br />> on adding new camera support does ZERO to encourage<br />> the engineers and as Thomas indicated, may actually set<br />> back their efforts because they spend time reading the<br />> posts asking them to do something they absolutely<br />> will do anyway.<br /><br />That's nice to read this! If this had been the initial answer, we would have <br />actually spared some bandwith.<br /><br />-- <br />Patrick
                                  • 14. Re: Support for Panasonic Lumix LX3
                                    Ramón G Castañeda Level 4
                                    >we would have actually spared some bandwith.

                                    You can do that by turning off the autoquote feature in your newsreader. It's most annoying to users of the web forums, who make up the bulk of Adobe forum users.
                                    • 15. Re: Support for Panasonic Lumix LX3
                                      Level 1
                                      Ramón_G_Castañeda@adobeforums.com wrote:
                                      >
                                      > It's most annoying to users of the web forums, who make up the bulk of Adobe forum users.

                                      Making everybody go back to trn for a couple of months would fix this problem
                                      right up.


                                      Now get off my lawn!

                                      -X
                                      • 16. Re: Support for Panasonic Lumix LX3
                                        Ramón G Castañeda Level 4
                                        We've become accustomed to inconsiderate, rude newsreader users. However, there are exceptions and those are highly appreciated.

                                        I wasn't even addressing you, -X.
                                        • 17. Re: Support for Panasonic Lumix LX3
                                          The lx3 is going to be a smash hit with it's features and pricing. It will have much higher sales than most cameras that output raw format.
                                          Combine this with the fact that someone is much more likely to buy software when they buy the camera, and the conclusion is that Adobe is losing and going to lose a lot of sales which will now never happen.
                                          In other words, you might want to get going on the lx3 support.
                                          - q
                                          • 18. Re: Support for Panasonic Lumix LX3
                                            JorgeDV
                                            Sorry Que T, but your reasoning in this is completely distorted. You are complaining to Adobe that they don't have support for every new RAW format that every new camera has as it hits the market.

                                            What you should be doing is telling Panasonic that if they don't start releasing cameras that shoot natively in a universal RAW format, like DNG, they are going to lose you as a customer. I know that's what I've done. It makes no sense blaming Adobe for this.

                                            And just so you know I'm a Panasonic LX3 user and I need that RAW support as much as anyone else. But I wouldn't be in this situation if Panasonic:
                                            a) Had a least incorporated in the LX3 the option to shoot in DNG, or
                                            b) would at least collaborate with software makers by giving them the specifics of their new RAW format so they can actually support it.
                                            • 19. Re: Support for Panasonic Lumix LX3
                                              Level 1
                                              Sorry JorgeV, there was no blame or complaint in my post. I was just talking economics and that there would be a high return on investment for taking the relatively easy step of supporting the LX3 raw format.
                                              Sure it would be great if all manufacturers supported the same format (assuming it was robust enough to handle all technical capabilities), but they don't and Adobe is losing $ by not supporting the LX3 faster. I also stated this money won't come back to them since many people will only buy software within a short period after they buy the camera. So, some engineer at Adobe should hole up in a room for 8 hours and produce the LX3 driver if they haven't already.
                                              • 20. Re: Support for Panasonic Lumix LX3
                                                Jao vdL Adobe Community Professional & MVP
                                                >taking the relatively easy step of supporting the LX3 raw format.

                                                You should read what was said on the thread Eric linked to. It clearly is NOT an easy step. Not because it is technically not possible (clearly not seeing these guys' track record) but because there is a legal and licensing issue. I interpret the remorks as Panasonic not allowing Adobe to support their camera's RAW because they require them to use certain algorithms to hide flaws in that camera's design. Not gonna happen.
                                                • 21. Re: Support for Panasonic Lumix LX3
                                                  Level 1
                                                  I will contact Panasonic with a request to provide Adobe what they need. We can all do without the rudeness that permeates these forums. My post was to simply indicate a level of demand for support of this particular camera. I had already read the other posts on the subject.
                                                  • 22. Re: Support for Panasonic Lumix LX3
                                                    PECourtejoie Adobe Community Professional
                                                    http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/panasonicdmclx3/page15.asp ...