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It would be useful to explain in more detail the changes to the installation, for those of us who have been installing the DNG Converter our own way for years!
First, there was the installation of the camera profiles - I'm not complaining that they were present, just that I wasn't expecting it. (To be fair, it is mentioned at the end of the installation note in the ReadMe, which is what I used).
But it took me some time to find the DNG Converter (in the main Adobe folder) and put it where I wanted it. (I sometimes need it on the desktop so that I can drag individual files onto it).
Who's decision was this to make the DNG converter only available with an installer? I prefer to make my own decisions and the installer gives no indication of where the file(s) are being installed.
Also, the labeling for the links to ACR 5.2 are totally screwed up; at least for the Windows version.
On the Camera Raw Update page the ACR 5.2 for Windows download is 40MB; but on the "New Downloads" page the Windows version is 70.5 MB; comes in an installer routine and is clearly incorrect.
Second, the DNG Converter is not available on the ACR update page as was previously the norm. The link is labeled "Adobe Camera Raw and DNG Converter" but only ACR is included in the download.
Barry, on Windows you can just use the Start menu and the DNG Converter will be listed in programs, under the Adobe section. (Digging through the actual folders in the file system works too, of course.)
James, the DNG Converter needs to install both the application and the camera profiles. This is because the new camera profile default is Adobe Standard, which is an external file (.dcp file). The profiles need to go in a very specific location, which most folks will have difficulty finding, esp. on Vista since that folder is hidden by Vista, by default.
Summary: Just run the installer. If you're on Windows, go to the Start menu and look through the list of available programs. If you're on Mac, visit the Applications directory (the installer will guide you there). That's all ...
>James Norton:Second, the DNG Converter is not available on the ACR update page as was previously the norm. The link is labeled "Adobe Camera Raw and DNG Converter" but only ACR is included in the download.
Agree. To actually download the DNG Converter you need to access:
and scroll down to the section named:
Adobe Camera Raw and DNG Converter
where you will find a link to a 35.1 MB file (Windows) that takes you to a new page where you can download the file:
which contains both the profiles and the DNG Converter 5.2.
The first link under that section takes you to a page where the CameraRaw plugins and profiles are contained in a .zip file.
Eric and CR,
Thanks for the responses. Eric, the install routine is all well and good but it would be helpful if it included a screen showing where the files will be installed. I have a specific directory where I prefer to install the DNG Converter and the install routine placed it elsewhere which necessitated a search to find the file.
Also, the first link on the Update page to the Windows version of ACR 5.2 still appears to be incorrect or mislabeled.
It is pointing at a 70.5 MB download that is the 64-bit version of ACR and which generates an error message when run on 32-bit systems.
At least it should be plainly labeled as 64-bit to avoid confusion.
I don't know if I'm missing something, but the Camera Raw update I downloaded didn't include the DNG Converter. I had to look for the Converter separately by searching through the downloads.
I wasn't too impressed by the DNG Converter install program either. It flashed past and I saw that it was copying a lot of camera files somewhere. This slightly unnerved me, as I didn't know if this was the same set of files I'd just installed with the CR 5.2 upgrade. And I wasn't sure how this affected my existing copy of the converter which I'd installed manually a few weeks ago.
Keith, the DNG Converter is now a separate download from Camera Raw. Most folks who download the latest Camera Raw plug-in have no need for DNG Converter, and vice versa. Hence beginning with this release we decided to separate the two.
Ran the update but I can not find DNG converter any where.
It's not on my start menu ...
What's it called and where should it be ?
> on Windows you can just use the Start menu and the DNG Converter will be listed in programs, under the Adobe section
Indeed, but I rarely use the Start menu for anything. And if I want to convert a few images, rather than a folder full, I drag and drop onto a DNG Converter on the desktop.
I've found it now in Program Files > Adobe, and I probably won't have a problem in future. I was just making the comment that Adobe shouldn't assume we all work the same way. See comment from James Norton too.
It didn't show up on my Start menu either. But I just did a search and found it somewhere in the Adobe file structure in Program Files. I just created a shortcut on my desktop, and everything works just fine.
I take that back. The DNG converter did show up on my Start menu. It's under the heading, Adobe. And it is installed in C:\Program Files\Adobe.
> Most folks who download the latest Camera Raw plug-in have no need for DNG Converter, and vice versa. Hence beginning with this release we decided to separate the two.
Well then I clearly don't fit into the most category because the only download I have bothered in the past is the combined. Bulk conversions are handled by DNG convertor and ACR handles the image processing. Now I have to download two files and each contains the profiles.
BTW: did I miss the survey that asked users how they wanted the downloads to be structured in future?
> Well then I clearly don't fit into the most category
Hence the term "outlier" ... ;-)
>Most folks who download the latest Camera Raw plug-in have no need for DNG Converter, and vice versa. Hence beginning with this release we decided to separate the two.
I especially found that it confuses users of older version of Photoshop; they did not know what to do with the new ACR that is useless for them.
Ian, you are an exceptional user :)
Told you to share your workflow, explaining that it is the workflow that fits your needs, but especially
you do it that way, so that other users might learn how to (and why) adjust theirs.
I think the whole thing is pretty simple. Things have changed. Come on, you guys, change a little bit. It's no big deal. Just think about it for a minute.
If the installation confuses some people then there's a problem with the installation. It's basic Usability stuff. Besides being mildly annoying, it requires unnecessary support effort. I'm not losing sleep over it, I'm just pointing out wrinkles which could easily be ironed.
> If the installation confuses some people then there's a problem with the installation. It's basic Usability stuff.
You could make the argument that the usability problem was with the previous
releases. That problem is now fixed. We shouldn't see dozens of posts wondering
what folders ACR/DNG related files should be placed in. At least, one would hope.
Hi Keith, yes, your point is well taken. Jim and X have put the finger on the issue: We deliberate made a change with this release in an effort to help folks going forward. We realize that for folks who are already used to the drill, this is a change and hence it may be confusing at first. But the point is to make it cleaner and easier going forward.
>But the point is to make it cleaner and easier going forward.
Yeah but the download pages need to be fixed. The camera RAW package says it contains DNG converter but it doesn't (see http://www.adobe.com/support/downloads/detail.jsp?ftpID=4219 for example. There is no DNG converter in that package, but it still says it includes it). You need to find the separate DNG converter installer on Adobe's pages to get it and it is deeply hidden.
Sorry, that aspect of things is beyond my direct control. I'll have to notify the folks who can fix it.
My post was meaning that the old way to distribute the converter was confusing. The new way makes sense for most users. (Besides really advanced ones who can manage the change without trouble.)
Many users cried here to have an installer... One can't please everyone.
> Many users cried here to have an installer... One can't please everyone
My point wasn't about whether we should have an installer. I'm happy with an installer.
My point was that we needed more information about what was happening. Having run the installer I then had to find where it had put the DNG Converter so that I could use it MY way. It wasn't obvious.
For example, it was not obvious how to have the DNG Converter on the desktop so that files can be dragged & dropped onto it. The documentation is really aimed at people who use the Start menu, which I never do for the DNG Converter, and won't in future unless forced to. (I either click on an icon on the XP TaskBar, or drag files onto a desktop icon).
I wonder if people who use the DNG Converter via the command line also needed more information about where it is put by the installer?
Barry, in the future, we can certainly include a note at the end of installation that indicates where the DNG Converter application got installed to. And/or simply have the installer open the directory to which it got installed, so the user can see it post-installation. Sound good?
Can I just say?
This update is absolutely incredible. The addition of "output sharpening" eliminates a huge pain in my butt. The Targeted Adjustment Tool just is the neatest thing, and the Camera Profiles and Snapshots are gonna change my life. (AS WELL as make me re-do several sections on my book that was JUST going to press... HA!)
So,let the others complain, I think you guys deserve a round of suds. Who knew that Camera RAW 5.2 would be one of the things I'd be giving thanks for on Thanksgiving?
have a happy one, and again, congrats!
(...and for the record, I, personally, had no trouble finding anything. :P )
Ok, Barry, I get you.
Eric, would it very difficult to have a windows contextual menu entry for convert to DNG in windows explorer, or is that opening a huge can of worms?
A note in the readme explaining what is installed and where would be plenty enough, in my opinion.
Ted, there was not complaining, but misunderstanding in the thread...
But let me join you for the THANK YOU choir!
Until/unless Adobe puts a direct entry to DNG Converter in a context menu, you could try putting a
shortcut to DNG Converter in your SendTo folder (usually at C:\Documents and
Settings\YourName\SendTo\). This puts DNG Converter on a submenu of the context menu. Let me know if
I'd just like to state that it's not 'complaining' when people point out problems in documentation or installations. It's called 'constructive feedback'. Adobe is just as capable of mistakes as anyone, and it's good that there's a place like this forum where these things can be discussed in a civilised fashion. So, please don't call us 'complainers'.
For balance, I'd also like to say that I have been very impressed with recent additions, like the Graduated Filter and Targetted Adjustment Tool. I'd comment on them too, except I haven't had the opportunity to get used to them yet. As regards the Camera Profiles, I think it's fair to say that this was a major revelation in Camera Raw, and not only did I praise the developers back in July (when the first beta was released), but I went around all the Nikon hang-outs on the internet telling everybody how fantastic it is.
I like that... the THANK YOU choir! (can I get an "aaaayy-men", brothers?!)
Camera Profiles- are they simply Adobe-supplied preset "Settings", or is there something more there, like some ICC profile action in the background, and are they at all camera-specific (and might they be in the future if not)? (Is there any chance that some day you may call them something other than "Camera Profiles" so us poor saps who teach Color Management don't have to go off on that tangent for an hour or so, every class, explaining that they are really not ICC profiles? ...but I'm not complaining... :P)
The Targeted Adjustment Brush, is there any ability to control the "width" of the tones being affected? I see the HSL controls, I'm wondering more about the, well, "diameter" of the brush on the curve, for lack of a better description.
And, kind of a dumb question, but you never know... the Snapshot saves all the settings applied, I'm guessing there's no way to export or import snapshots from file to file? I guess that would just be a saved setting... (duh, I said it was dumb).
Thanks again guys... as you probably know by now, I'm completely immersed in the Smart Object RAW workflow, and every step of Camera RAW development has reinforced that. It's easier and easier to "dive into the deep end" of Camera RAW and avoid almost every tool in the conventional Photoshop workflow.
'Camera Profiles' are proprietary look-up tables, purely used by Adobe software (Camera Raw and Lightroom). Several are created for each camera model, and vary from Standard, to manufacturers' picture settings emulations. You can also make/edit your own with Adobe's free DNG Profile Editor software download. The profiles replace the old camera profile system, which has been in Camera Raw for several versions, and only work with version 4.5 onwards.
Snapshots appear to be image-specific. So I guess the only way to export a snapshot would be to apply it to your image and then save everything as a Preset which can be used on another image.
Thanks for that... for those following along, I found the DNG Profile editor here:
the download is here:
...and some detailed discussion here (Adobe DNG forums):
I had no idea... that's very cool stuff.
So, guessing from what you've said Keith, these are camera model specific, to some degree? That is, the pulldown you get in 5.2 for a specific profile will be different from camera to camera? I know the profiles, in the past, have been way more general, I'm just trying to get at exactly how specific to each camera they are. And how much is an ICC (true input camera profile) profile involved in developing that look-up table?
The Camera Profiles are no longer in beta, and the version 1 release can be found supplied with the latest version of Camera Raw (5.2):
Contrary to what it says there, you don't get the DNG Converter. That is now a separate download, which you can find on the Adobe website, if you look for Camera Raw.
I installed the Camera Raw update manually, so I couldn't say if the Camera Profiles are automaticaly installed too, if you use Adobe Updater.
There are plenty of relevant discussions about Adobe Camera Profiles and DNG Profile Editor in this forum. Just go back to July/August.
Camera Profiles *are* camera model specific. If you examine the installation file structure, you'll see an Adobe Standard folder and a Camera folder, containing lots of sub-folders and DCP (DNG Camera Profile?) files for each camera model. You can see the result of this in the Camera Profile drop-down in the Camera Calibration tab, in supported cameras - each file has an entry, like Adobe Standard, Camera Standard, Camera Neutral, Camera Vivid etc.
The confusing thing is, because the profiles have the same names for each camera, you don't realise that there is one for each camera.
As far as I know, the profiling system was developed from scratch, and each camera model has been physically employed in producing test shots by Adobe to produce its profiles. You may get a better idea of what's involved by playing around with the DNG Profile Editor.
Well, I managed to locate and download both the ACR 5.2 and the DNG 5.2, but it was a bit of a challenge. I have a couple of comments regarding the DNG installation.
As a sometime OS beta tester, I have developed a habit of keeping C:\ for the operating system only. When a new OS or beta is issued, I just format C: and install the new OS. I try to keep applications off C:. It is hard, though, with all the default installations. It would be nice to have the option to install DNG.exe in my applications partition.
My workflow involves importing NEF's from the memory card to a folder, and at the same time converting those NEF's to DNG's and putting them in a different folder in a different partition. Both these NEF's and DNG's are archived. A copy of the DNG's are used as working images. The virtue of DNG's is that there are no sidecar files to keep track of when exporting images. Unless I really mess up, I never go back to the NEF's again. I guess that I am an "outlier" too. I guess that this is essentially the 5 - A "double DNG-only" workflow, using type 2, the native-DNG-DNG system. This is discussed in detail by Barry Pearson at http://www.barrypearson.co.uk/articles/dng/safety.htm#personal
I do like the camera profiles. I previously have used the Fors script. My Nikon D200 lacked red and the Fors script fixed that. Not surprisingly, different profiles are appropriate for different image types. Is there any way of determining the methodology and reasoning between the different profiles, and what specific problems each one is designed to correct. This might permit better matching profiles to image types, with less trial and error.
Reed, the Adobe Standard profile is a characterization of the camera built from Adobe's own lab measurements + user testing. The only purpose of the "Camera"-prefix profiles is to get a close approximation to the Nikon-provided color renderings (a.k.a. Picture Controls), since many users like "Nikon's colors" and it was highly requested. Now, as to exactly how Nikon came up with its color styles, I can't say; that's a question you'd have to ask Nikon.
But in practice, as you say, it just comes down to what looks good for the image in question (which means it's all personal preference ...)
Eric, I finally got the DNG converter installed, but I don't know where it is located on my system (Windows XP) But it is working and I do have a short cut for it. However, I d/l the new profiles and they installed automaticallly when double clicked. However, in the new ACR 5.2, I now have two profiles of each eg: Standard and Stard Beta 2. That is for each one. I would like to know where they are installed again, delete them all and then install the new ones so that I only have one set of profiles installed. Or am I supposed to have both installed. I must admit, I like the way it was before as far as the DNG files were concerned as I knew where I had put them and it was easy to install. I have no clue where the new DNG Converter file is installed on my system. Did a search abnd couldn't find them. But they are working as I double clicked the shortcut and it came up.
Would really apreciate some help here on the location of the dng converter and where the profiles are located.
Tunney, here you go:
I found the new camera profiles and deleted the older ones keeping the current files. However, for the life of me, I cannot find the new Adobe DNG converter files.on my system. As I am on Windows XP Pro, checking the shortcut says that the new dng converter is at ProgramFiles/Adobe/but it does not show up here. Can someone give me a little help here. I've spent a lot of time looking but can't seem to find the files on my system for the new Adobe DNG Converter. It is installed and works fine but I still want to know where the programe is installed on my system. (Adobe DNG Converter.exe)
Thanks for all your help..
Start menu -> Program Files -> Adobe -> Adobe DNG Converter.
C:\Program Files\Adobe\Adobe DNG Converter.
I finally got the DNG 5.2 Converter installed and located. Subsequent to my first install of it,I did a search for it and couldn't find it. I installed again (actually twice, because the second time I looked at Details but they go by too fast for my eyes). I went to Start-Programs-Adobe (the first mention of Adobe in the program list, and there it was. Opened it and sure enough it was 5.2. Did a properties on it and it is located at C:\Program Files\Adobe\Adobe DNG Converter.exe. Checked, and sure enough, there it is. I also made a desktop shortcut. Knowing where it is, it can be called from Image Ingester.
Thanks Eric, Tunney, and all for your comments.
Thanks Eric. Finally found it.
A big thank you to the contributors to this forum. I, too, was having problems locating the latest installed version of the DNG Converter but having read the posts, all is now well. Or I thought it was until I tried to convert a Canon Powershot G10 .CR2 file. The Converter doesnt recognize this as a file type to convert despite the G10 being on the list of supported cameras for version 5.2. Has anyone had the same problem or am I missing something in my use of the application? Any advice would be appreciated.