14 Replies Latest reply on Feb 5, 2010 3:10 PM by Aussie_PJ

    What's left to "complete" ACR?

    rasworth Level 1
      It's obvious to all of us that ACR has evolved to much more than a raw converter, given all of its image editing tools - crop, brush, output sharpening, etc.

      However, IMO it is missing one key capability - if the Photoshop engineers would add the Image Size function from Photoshop it would serve as a "cradle to grave" editor for the majority of my images, and I suspect similarly for many other photographers.

      Just need to be able to size and re-sample prior to Output Sharpening, after cropping, and it's ready to go for generating the final web or print copy. Bridge for sorting and ACR for processing, never touch PS for most images.

      So when can we expect Image Size to be added to ACR?

      Richard Southworth
        • 1. Re: What's left to "complete" ACR?
          Yammer Level 4
          Ha! I was thinking the very same thing just yesterday, when I was playing with the new Output Sharpening settings. I thought: it's a shame there isn't a Custom pixel dimensions setting in the workflow options, because I'll have to switch it off and do it in Photoshop after I've resized it.
          • 2. Re: What's left to "complete" ACR?
            Level 1
            >So when can we expect Image Size to be added to ACR?

            Nothing much is gonna change for upcoming versions of Camera Raw 5.x. Due to circumstances outside of the control of the Camera Raw team, they're really not allowed to add substantial "new functionality" but bug and maintenance fixes only. So, the next chance for major new functionality is Camera Raw 6 in CS5. Which, if you go by the averages will be about 18 months from the time CS4 was released (Oct 08) which would be spring'ish of 2010.

            And, yes, having a readout of image dimensions at given PPI is high on my list as well. The major reason is hasn't been high on ACR's priority list is really, until ACR 5.2, Camera Raw was not an optimal place to do resampling. Now it is and as a result, being able to set dimensions has now become mission criticalparticularly if you want to apply output sharpening in the ACR pipeline. But alas, it must wait till the next major rev.
            • 3. Re: What's left to "complete" ACR?
              rasworth Level 1

              Thanks for the insight, however it hardly seems like a major functionality change, at least not from a technical perspective. Easy enough to carry dimensions and ppi along in the xmp metadata, and to link into the PS API for the function. I know, the marketing types would all rise up and yell "Lightroom killer!" or something similar.

              Oh well, I guess we'll just keep trucking along until 2010. Or use the convoluted workflow in my other post (into PS and back to ACR after resizing). BTW, from whence is the output sharpening algorithim derived?

              Richard Southworth
              • 4. Re: What's left to "complete" ACR?
                Yammer Level 4
                Surely the other new features introduced since 5.0 are more major than that? After all, there already is resizing of sorts in the workflow settings. Or maybe that would be the last straw on the accountant's back.
                • 5. Re: What's left to "complete" ACR?
                  Thomas Knoll Level 2
                  Actually, you can use the crop tool to resize the image to any size you want. You can just adjust the crop tool to cover the entire image, and use the custom crop options to control the exact size.
                  • 6. Re: What's left to "complete" ACR?
                    rasworth Level 1

                    I can see how to use the crop tool to set the ratio, but how do I end up with a given crop with the correct size and ppi?

                    E.G., if I set the custom crop to 8x10 and then crop an arbitrary area of the image, I end up with the correct aspect ratio but no size info and the wrong ppi in the final image.

                    Richard Southworth
                    • 7. Re: What's left to "complete" ACR?
                      rasworth Level 1

                      Ooh! Never mind, if I set "inches" and choose 8x10, then the image opened in Photoshop is indeed sized to 8x10 with 240ppi, i.e. resized and resampled.

                      Ok, now back to output sharpening, is it applied to the "after" (resized and re-sampled version) or the "before"?


                      Richard Southworth
                      • 8. Re: What's left to "complete" ACR?
                        Thomas Knoll Level 2
                        After (i.e. it does the correct thing).
                        • 9. Re: What's left to "complete" ACR?
                          Level 1
                          >Actually, you can use the crop tool to resize the image to any size you want.

                          Yep...but then you force a resample unless you get your calculator out and enter in exact PPI so the file remains at "native resolution". I would much rather see the ability to EITHER set the output PPI (as we have now) and then have Camera Raw show me the image dimensions OR set the dimensions and let the PPI fall where it will.

                          This sort of functionality is needed in order to have images whose crop or capture size fall a bit different all end up with the same dimension but with slightly different resolutions.

                          As it stands now, one is forced to go into Photoshop to do this and uncheck the resample and enter a fixed dimension in either height or width. This is particularly useful when crops vary or the raw file is from different sized sensors, etc. I should be able to set a fixed dimension and let the resolution fall where it will.

                          Lightroom can do this in the Print module pretty easy, just set the image print cell size to be a fixed limit and uncheck resolution. You end up with a fixed dimension and whatever for the resolution and the output sharpening happens correctly for the resolution. No resampling involved..
                          • 10. Re: What's left to "complete" ACR?
                            rasworth Level 1

                            Is there any way to save multiple custom crops, be they ratio, inches, or pixels? The last choice is persistent until a new one is selected, then apparently gone.

                            Richard Southworth
                            • 11. Re: What's left to "complete" ACR?
                              Yammer Level 4
                              Fantastic! It does it after all, and I didn't even realise! So I can crop, resize and sharpen all in ACR.

                              I seem to remember talk, a few months ago, about interpolation problems with the crop tool in ACR - especially regarding resampling and straightening. Did I imagine that?

                              Since those discussions, I've stopped using ACR to crop and straighten, and done it in post-processing instead. Can anyone confirm what I'm talking about, and say if it no longer applies (ie has been fixed)?
                              • 12. Re: What's left to "complete" ACR?
                                MadManChan2000 Adobe Employee
                                Richard, no, not at the present time.

                                Keith, the crop issue was fixed in 5.2.
                                • 13. Re: What's left to "complete" ACR?
                                  Yammer Level 4
                                  Good stuff. Thanks, Eric! I can go back to cropping in ACR now, AND resize and sharpen too. You guys are too much.
                                  • 14. Re: What's left to "complete" ACR?

                                    An ability to crop exact pixel dimensions is something really needed, as it frustrating trying to get 2400x3000 exactly. For the lab I use for prints, I know they print at 300dpi, so I crop accordingly...LR3 Beta means you can only do an approximate crop and then have to finish it off elsewhere.


                                    This ability is also missing in ACR in CS3 (not yet moved up to CS4), yet Canon has had the ability to specify pixel dimensions for a specific aspect ratio for years in its DPP program. At least in ACR CS3, I can zoom in to 100% or more to make it easier to get exact dimensions...tedious and time consuming in ACR 4.6, but it works. However, even that option is not available in LR3 Beta.


                                    So, suggestion #2: allow full zoom control to 100% (and higher) when using the crop tool.


                                    Suggestion #3: In ACR 4.6, the image size and ppi are displayed underneath the image, so you do not have to turn on an obtrusive info output to see image dimensions as in LR 3...needs to change LR. Also, ACR is easy to change the resolution (e.gg. from 240ppi to 300ppi).