19 Replies Latest reply on Jul 20, 2010 5:09 PM by kmaddox1

    Topics losing templates

    ElisaFnord Level 2
      We are working with big RH6 for HTML projects here (4000 topics or so) in RoboSourceControl 3. For several versions of RH, we have lost templates randomly. Sometimes the header and footer text is copied into the placeholders when the link to the header/footer in the template is broken; sometimes it isn't.

      We can live with this, but what we really need is a way to get a report of topics without templates. Has anybody come up with a workaround? Failing that, what's the link again to put this on the wish list at Adobe?

      (And if anybody else has this problem, please add your request to mine!)

      Elisa
        • 1. Re: Topics losing templates
          RoboWizard Level 4
          Your Wish(form) is granted!

          Click here to view the WishForm/Bug Reporting Form

          Cheers... Rick
          • 2. Re: Topics losing templates
            ElisaFnord Level 2
            Thank you, Rick! If you need a wish granted, ask the guy with the wand and the pointy hat...
            • 3. Re: Topics losing templates
              Philip Tory Level 1

              I find topics lose template connection frequently. I think this is to do with me keeping all s

              topic content within a 740px-wide Table, so that viewing is consistent for many different sizes and resolutions of monitor.

               

              I recorded a movie deom if you want to check it out >

               

              See http://www.authorgraphic.co.uk/rh8_bugs/losing_template1.htm

               

              Philip

              • 4. Re: Topics losing templates
                Captiv8r Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                Hi Phillip

                 

                I had a look at your video. RoboHelp is not losing the connection to the template. What is happening (at least according to the video you presented) is that for some reason it is sensing a change has been made to the Header or Footer. Because the topic is associated with the Template (or Master Page in RoboHelp 8) it is asking you how it should proceed. When you choose the option to apply the modification to the topic, you are instructing RoboHelp to break the connection to the template.

                 

                What you need to be investigating is exactly why it is sensing you have made a change to the Header or Footer. Once you solve that mystery you should not encounter the message that causes you to sever the connection between the Template/Master Page and the Topic.

                 

                Cheers... Rick

                 

                 

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                • 5. Re: Topics losing templates
                  Philip Tory Level 1

                  Hello Rick,

                   

                  No idea. I do know that if I select 'Make change to all topics...' it used to wipe the template - so I've kept well away from that option for recent years! My changes don't touch the header or footer, as you can see.

                   

                  Still mystified...

                   

                  Philip

                  • 6. Re: Topics losing templates
                    kmaddox1 Level 1

                    For what it's worth, I frequently encounter the same problem; however, I do not use a table for my topic content (although I have tables in my headers and footers). Happens after I work on 7 or 8 (or sometimes only 1 or 2) topics. When I click Save, I am prompted to apply to my changes to the template or only to the specific topic. What's especially frustrating is that the prompt doesn't tell me exactly which topic(s) are being affected--a nuisance if I have multiple unsaved topics.

                     

                    I've grown accustomed to viewing the file list periodically and reapplying the topic template when needed. And, yes, this has been an issue since RH6, but it seems more pronounced with RH8

                    • 7. Re: Topics losing templates
                      lmarden Level 2

                      I'll chime in and add that it happens frequently to me as well - at least a few times a day. And, like mentioned previously, it's a total PITA when the message comes up while saving multiple topics. No clue which one has the problem. Not that it matters, since I have no idea what the trigger is. I very rarely make changes to templates - only once every few months when prepping to create a .chm for the final software release.

                      • 8. Re: Topics losing templates
                        Philip Tory Level 1

                        Yes, it seems to be caused by tables; I sometimes use these in header and/or footer too, so that I can position text or logos to one side or the other.

                         

                        The worst of it is when you use more than one template, according to the individual topic. Lose several template connections and you don't know which template goes with which topic - you have to go into each topic and work it out afresh. When there are hundreds of topics, it just isn't possible to remember which is which...

                         

                        Adobe, please note, and please fix it?

                         

                        Elisa, if you're still watching this, you said, "what we really need is a way to get a report of topics without templates".

                         

                        I don't know if you can get a report that shows which topics don't have a template; but try this:

                         

                        • Open the Topic List and switch on the "Template" (or Master Page) column, as follows.
                        • Right-click on any of the Topic List header bars (e.g. File Name) and from the drop-down menu, click-to-tick Template:

                        show_template1.gif

                        This adds the Template (Master Page) column into the display.

                        • If the new column is too far to the right, you can click and drag the header to move it with its column to a more convenient position.
                        • Click once on the Template header to sort by that column.
                        • Press the Home or End key to see whether those without templates are at top or bottom. They'll all be grouped together, either up or down. You can then select multiple topics, right click > Properties, and add a template.
                        • If you use multipe templates then you have a challenge... You'll need to work out which template goes with which topic.

                         

                        Hope this helps.

                        1 person found this helpful
                        • 9. Re: Topics losing templates
                          Captiv8r Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                          Hi all

                           

                          If I've said it once... I've said it.

                           

                          Philip, (and anyone else reading this) please note that you should not count on Adobe reading these forums. You asked Adobe to fix the issue. I do know that earlier in the thread you said you reported this as a bug. What needs to happen is that everyone experiencing the problem needs to report as a bug so it is logged in their database. The more reports received the higher the likelihood of seeing the issue become fixed.

                           

                          Another important factor is the ability to reproduce the issue. After all, if Adobe can't reproduce it on their end, it will be hard to identify what is wrong.

                           

                          Cheers... Rick :

                           

                           

                          Helpful and Handy Links

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                          • 10. Re: Topics losing templates
                            Philip Tory Level 1

                            Thanks for your contribution.

                             

                            Can you "Report It As A Bug" - see Rick's note in this discussion.

                            • 11. Re: Topics losing templates
                              Philip Tory Level 1

                              Thanks Rick,

                               

                              I have now asked the other two to send a bug report.

                               

                              This problem has happened frequently, on just about every Help Guide I've

                              worked on over the last 7(?) years, where I've put content or headers into a

                              table. Adobe are welcome to one of my Help Guides if they want one to play

                              with.

                               

                              Cheers.

                               

                              Philip

                              • 12. Re: Topics losing templates
                                kmaddox1 Level 1

                                I just submitted a bug request. Will be interesting to see if and when the issue is resolved. Kathy

                                • 13. Re: Topics losing templates
                                  Captiv8r Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                  What will be helpful is if you can make note of what is happening at the time the Template/Master Page becomes disassociated.

                                   

                                  For example:

                                   

                                  Does it only seem to happen when editing a specific topic?

                                  Does it only seem to happen when editing a topic linked to a specific Master Page/Topic Template?

                                  How many topics are open in the editor at the time it happens?

                                  Is the template simply disassociated with no warning? For example, did you just close the project on Monday, you open it Tuesday and just happen to notice topic(s) is/are no longer associated? Or do you see the dialog Philip sees where you are advised something has changed and you are asked how you wish to proceed?

                                   

                                  I'm happy to try and see if I can assist with sorting why it's happening. So the more we can learn about the conditions that seem to cause the issue the better off we will be. My thought is that if we can pinpoint a reliable means of producing the issue, we can figure out a way to prevent it. Or at least provide it to Adobe for investigation.

                                   

                                  Cheers... Rick

                                   

                                  Helpful and Handy Links

                                  RoboHelp Wish Form/Bug Reporting Form

                                  Begin learning RoboHelp HTML 7 or 8 moments from now - $24.95!

                                  Adobe Certified RoboHelp HTML Training

                                  SorcererStone Blog

                                  RoboHelp eBooks

                                  • 14. Re: Topics losing templates
                                    kmaddox1 Level 1

                                    Hi Rick,

                                     

                                    To answer your questions:

                                     

                                    1. It appears to happen with any of my topics.

                                    2. All my topics use the same master page, except the title page. But I've seen it happen with that topic too.

                                    3. Any number of topics can be open in the editor when it happens--one, two, or 25 or more. Since the prompt doesn't say which topic has been afffected, it's hard to track down exactly what I did to cause the error.

                                    4. I am always prompted that the header or footer has changed on a topic and asked to manually disassociate the connection or to apply the change to all topics that use this master page. Since I don't know what has changed, I typically select "Just this topic", but bad things typically do not happen if I simply apply the header/footer changes to the master page.

                                     

                                    I've seen this issue for years, but wasn't especially annoyed by it until I switched to RH8 where I see it happen several times a day. My current theory is that it has something to do with using a table and/or a topic hyperlink in my footer and editing text in HTML view. While I never intentionally edit the master page coding, I'm wondering if something I do in the HTML editor is affecting the coding in the footer, making RH think that something has changed. I'll try to pay more attention over the next few days to see if I can come up with some better notes.

                                     

                                    Kathy

                                    • 15. Re: Topics losing templates
                                      Philip Tory Level 1

                                      Hello Rick, (Kathy - thanks for your contribution)

                                       

                                      I concur with Kathy - I have exactly the same problems here, except:

                                      • I rarely edit in HTML view - 99% in WYSIWYG.
                                      • I don't use a hyperlink in the footer.

                                       

                                      It doesn't matter which Master Page / Template is associated. Currently I'm using two, and it can happen with either.

                                       

                                      Bear in mind this happens with every Help Guide I've created for some years, in RH5-6-7-8, where it uses Tables for header, or footer, or topic content. I might only be changing as little as a few words in a sentence. When I do Ctrl+S to save, up pops the message. Or if I move an image. Or remove a build tag. It seems to be "Edit Anything, and you're at risk".

                                       

                                      Even if I change the topic name or filename in Topic Properties, it can lose the connection UNLESS I tab down to the Template drop-down, do a quick UP > DOWN with the keyboard arrow keys to reset the selection, then click OK and I can save the topic OK.

                                       

                                      (Rick, if you want a project to play with, contact me privately and I'll email something to you. It would be lovely to get this bug fixed once and for all.)

                                      • 16. Re: Topics losing templates
                                        ElisaFnord Level 2

                                        Philip - many thanks for the Topic List hint - I admit that I had forgotten all about this request, but Topic List customization was the first thing I tried when we upgraded to version 8.

                                         

                                        Looks like the original post has spread its scope a bit, and I'll be adding my .02USD downthread, but I just wanted to say how tickled I am that you replied to me.

                                        • 17. Re: Topics losing templates
                                          ElisaFnord Level 2

                                          Just to add a bit to the circumstantial evidence, I've seen the "template change" message in the following situations:

                                           

                                          1. When I am in HTML View and I save. This always brings up the message, although most of the time, when I respond "This topic only" and look at the Topic Properties window, the template is still there.

                                           

                                          2. When I am in Design View and select or otherwise move the cursor past a big image that makes the page scroll suddenly in Design View. I think what happens is that the GUI interprets this as a click in the footer area, which is an attempt to change the footer. This situation most often brings up a dialog box requesting me to confirm that I want to make the .htt file editable (because I keep my .htt files locked in Windows). Occasionally, it just throws up the "template change" message. When it does, and I open Topic Properties, the template/Master Page assignment shows (none).

                                           

                                          FWIW,

                                           

                                          Elisa

                                          • 18. Re: Topics losing templates
                                            kmaddox1 Level 1

                                            just tried Eliza's scenario 1 on a couple of topics. She's absolutely right on. I made a simple change to a topic in HTML view and pressed Ctrl+S while still in HTML. Sure enough, the message appeared, but the topic template remained associated. (Note that if I make a similarly simple change in HTML view but switch back to Design view before saving, I do not get the message.)

                                             

                                            However, I just had the message appear for a topic that (1) does not have any figures and (2) I did not edit in HTML view. It does include a very long table though--maybe that, like Eliza's figures, is helping to trigger the problem.

                                            • 19. Re: Topics losing templates
                                              kmaddox1 Level 1

                                              oops, should be "Elisa" not "Eliza". Sorry!