18 Replies Latest reply on Dec 30, 2008 4:56 PM by Ian Lyons

    CR adjustment brushe on Mac 10.5 is just junk....

      Really disappointed in both CR and LR2 as the adjustment brush is unusable.
      If I open a raw image in Photoshop CS4 and try to use the adjustment brush it consistently crashes PS.
      Great idea just too bad it is so lousy.
      Really disappointed in the quality of these releases. Spent alot of time with tech support and after about an hour of trouble shooting the tech comes back and tells me it's a bug they know about and will be fixed with next release. It wasn't fixed with LR 2.2.....maybe he meant ver.3
        • 1. Re: CR adjustment brushe on Mac 10.5 is just junk....
          Level 1
          >If I open a raw image in Photoshop CS4 and try to use the adjustment brush it consistently crashes PS.

          If all you want to do is Piss&Moan, you've done a great job. However, if you do actually want help, you'll need to offer some basic level of system info so we might be able to offer you some sort of clue as to how to go about troubleshooting...the odds are real good your problems are YOUR problems and not impacting most users since there's been very few people reporting issues.

          Course, if all you want to do is complain, that's ok too...you won't get any help though...
          • 2. Re: CR adjustment brushe on Mac 10.5 is just junk....
            Level 1
            OOOPS.....Ok here are my machine specs:
            Mac Pro Tower 2.66mhz dual quad core
            8 gigs of ram
            500 gb Samsung Spinpoint boot drive
            1 tb working drive
            1 tb internal back up drive
            OS 10.5.6
            With the upgrade to 10.5.6 the brush in LR 2.2 has improved
            slightly. In other words I can work with it longer before it
            drags the system down.
            No help at all with CR. Just continues to crash PS CS4.
            I also send crash reports after every crash.
            Just got my system back from the Apple pros. I had them run a full
            diagnostic on the system to see if there were any issues. It passed with flying colors.
            And yes it was a rant....out of frustration. I'm not used to having these kinds of problems with Adobe products.
            If you think that this is just a Piss&Moan session then you are fairly thin skinned. How would you express your frustration and dissappointment? I felt that I did mine in a civilized manner. And after being assured that the problem would be fixed with the next release and it wasn't I feel that a complaint is in order.
            Here is wishing you a Healthy,Happy and Prosperous New Year.
            • 3. Re: CR adjustment brushe on Mac 10.5 is just junk....
              Level 1
              > How would you express your frustration and dissappointment?

              I would have posted my system specs so the forum members might have a *******' clue what to tell you?

              I have a Mac Pro tower with 16 gigs of ram and 10.5.6 and I have zero problems with Camera Raw 5.2 GM crashing Photoshop. I will say that with vid card, Photoshop itself is a bit flakey so I turn off the GPU for stability...but since you haven't posted your vid card, don't know what to tell you...and I'm a pretty big user of local corrections with pretty big raw files including P45+ Phase One raws...I suppose you've done the normal troubleshooting methods of trying a new user? Trashing the Photoshop prefs? Changing the ram allocation to Photoshop (which you also failed to mention, hope you aren't running it at 100%), whether you've tried opening hosted from Bridge vs hosted by Photoshop?

              Fact is, Camera Raw itself is pretty stable considering it's a plug-in run inside of Photoshop...so I suspect your problems stem from some issue there not Camera Raw itself...
              • 4. Re: CR adjustment brushe on Mac 10.5 is just junk....
                Level 1
                Video card is an ATI Radeon HD 3870.
                Thrashed the prefs....tried new user.....ram allocation at 90% depending on a certain plugin(Optipix, then I run at 35% until finished).
                It doesn't seem to matter whether I open from PS or Bridge.
                Prior to updating to 10.5.6 Bridge was very sluggish. After the update the performance of Bridge improved slightly.
                I have also had crashes of PS....usually when saving an image. I will either get a spinning beach ball and have to force quit or PS just disappears.

                ps.....When is the new book going to be available?
                • 5. Re: CR adjustment brushe on Mac 10.5 is just junk....
                  Ramón G Castañeda Level 4
                  >Video card is an ATI Radeon HD 3870.

                  How much VRAM on that card?

                  >When is the new book going to be available?

                  I got my copy from Amazon.com on Christmas Eve.
                  • 6. Re: CR adjustment brushe on Mac 10.5 is just junk....
                    Level 1
                    >I have also had crashes of PS....usually when saving an image. I will either get a spinning beach ball and have to force quit or PS just disappears.

                    Greg, this seriously is not normal...although I would never run at 90%. I never run at over 75% even though I've got 16 gigs of ram installed. What you prolly need to do is launch Activity Monitor and watch the free ram available...if it drops down below 200MBs of free ram, that's when all apps (not just Photoshop) can get really unstable. You don't whether or not your Ps scratch is on a separate drive than the boot drive (it should be). The one thing I would look at is the ram...is it Apple ram? Are you mixing DIMM sizes/speeds? If you've added ram from another source than what the machine came with, have you tried removing the extra ram and seeing how stability is? Again, all of these sort of factors are really needed for proper troubleshooting...

                    >ps.....When is the new book going to be available?

                    The Camera Raw for CS4 is already shipping...the Photoshop for Photographers book is finished and will be out in March.
                    • 7. Re: CR adjustment brushe on Mac 10.5 is just junk....
                      Level 1
                      The scratch disk is on the working drive and not the boot drive. The ram is from two different sources......THEY WERE SUPPOSED TO MATCH. I will check that out. I will also try running with ram at a lower allocation. I will also try separating the ram and see what happens.
                      I'll post results.
                      Here's hoping.....not like a bunny.....but as in "Springs eternal"...:0)

                      Thanks for your input. It's appreciated.

                      Just checked the System Profiler and it shows:
                      2 ea. 2gb DDR2 FB-DIMM 667 MHz
                      4 ea. 1gb DDR2 FB-DIMM 667 MHz
                      I've got the four singles on one rack and the 2gb on the second rack.

                      OK....just ran CR in PS....and I really hammered it. Mulitiple brush adjustments,cropped,graduated filter....in other words I tried to get it to crash. The only problem was the graduated filter was a little unresponsive. Every thing else worked like I thought it should.
                      All I did was lower the ram allocation to 70% and the free ram never dropped below 4.5gbs. I was using an NEF from a D2x just like before.
                      So what are your thoughts on that? Surprised me.
                      • 8. Re: CR adjustment brushe on Mac 10.5 is just junk....
                        Ramón G Castañeda Level 4
                        Greg,
                        >The scratch disk is on the working drive and not the boot drive

                        What do you mean by "the working drive"? Adobe applications really need to reside on the boot drive, where the OS resides. The scratch disk should ideally be on a separate drive, but the application installation needs to be on the startup drive.
                        • 9. Re: CR adjustment brushe on Mac 10.5 is just junk....
                          John Joslin Level 6
                          > So what are your thoughts on that?

                          My thoughts are that it is helpful to observe the laws of physics and not to believe that throwing all your RAM at an application will make subsidiary processes work better. They need some too.
                          • 10. Re: CR adjustment brushe on Mac 10.5 is just junk....
                            Level 1
                            >I've got the four singles on one rack and the 2gb on the second rack.

                            The way I understand it is that you SHOULD put ram in MacPro towers in pairs...I have the ram slots all filled with the exact same ram so it's not an issue for me, but that indeed could be causing some higher level issues. Photoshop should NOT crash at higher % allocations, but the fact it seems stable when under 70% kinda aligns with the possibility that the ram is not properly paired and when you run the %'s up it causes problems...check the MacPro Tower ram installation part of the manual and see if Apple says to pair the ram...so what that means is that you would split the pairs across the two ram slots...not have one type on one slot and the other on the other...
                            • 11. Re: CR adjustment brushe on Mac 10.5 is just junk....
                              Level 1
                              All ram are in matched pairs.
                              I rearranged the ram as follows:
                              1st pair: 2 ea.1gb upper card
                              2nd pair: 2 ea.1gb lower card
                              3rd pair: 2 ea.2gb upper card

                              I just swapped out the first and third pair. It had been awhile
                              since I had looked at the arrangement of the pairs and had forgotten
                              that I had put the two 2gb chips in the first slot.
                              I will monitor performance at 70% and if things go well
                              I will move the allocation back up and see what happens.
                              I have not installed the original pair of 512 mb
                              as I have been told that mixing that pair in could
                              cause problems.

                              Thanks again for your input. Are you going to post any
                              of your images from Antartica this year? Would love to see
                              some of them.

                              To Ramon:
                              The "working drive" is a separate drive where I store all my images.
                              All apps reside on the boot drive. The scratch disk
                              is on the "working drive".

                              To John:
                              Since you can only access 3 gb of ram in the Mac version of PS
                              90% of that still leaves over 5gb to run the rest of the system.
                              • 12. Re: CR adjustment brushe on Mac 10.5 is just junk....
                                Ramón G Castañeda Level 4
                                >The "working drive" is a separate drive where I store all my images.

                                OK. I'd call it my storage drive then. :)
                                • 13. Re: CR adjustment brushe on Mac 10.5 is just junk....
                                  Thomas Knoll Level 2
                                  >I will monitor performance at 70% and if things go well
                                  I will move the allocation back up and see what happens.

                                  NO NO NO! Do NOT move it back up, unless you enjoy having your system crash.

                                  I very strongly recommend against EVER settings a 32-bit version of Photoshop's VM memory allocation higher than its default value (70%). In fact, I think we should disable this preference since users see it and think "more must be better", and then cause lots of problems for themselves.

                                  More is NOT better in this case. You will just start running out of system VM address space, and get random crashes.

                                  This will all be solved when you run a 64-bit version of Photoshop. Windows users can do this now, but Macintosh users will have to wait a while. Until then, just keep the settings at 70% or below.
                                  • 14. Re: CR adjustment brushe on Mac 10.5 is just junk....
                                    Level 1
                                    Hello Thomas,
                                    I feel like I'm in the presence of the "Mighty Pavad".....;0)
                                    You're right about the ram situation. I have not seen, until now a definitive statement on the proper ram allocation. Maybe with the release of 10.1 you might want to disable the ability to go above 70%.
                                    On the Mac side this could aleviate alot of the mysterious problems that we ALL struggle with.
                                    Just to keep the "need for speed" group happy, you could change the slider to read 100%, yet not go over 70......
                                    Thanks for the clarification.
                                    • 15. Re: CR adjustment brushe on Mac 10.5 is just junk....
                                      Ian Lyons MVP & Adobe Community Professional
                                      Thomas,

                                      >I very strongly recommend against EVER settings a 32-bit version of Photoshop's VM memory allocation higher than its default value (70%).

                                      Many of the more experienced Ps users will agree with your recommendation about not setting your ram above 70%, especially since many issues can be tracked to this one slider being set too high. Nevertheless, Adobe doesn't appear quite at one with this view. For example, in the past we've had fairly senior Ps engineers suggesting anything up to 100% with more than 4GB is fine and we have the official Knowledgebase article on Photoshop Performance implying something similar.

                                      http://kb.adobe.com/selfservice/viewContent.do?externalId=kb404440&sliceId=1

                                      Two quotes from same document:

                                      >When you run Photoshop CS4 on a 64-bit operating system Photoshop can access up to 8 GB of RAM. You can see the actual amount of RAM Photoshop can use in the Let Photoshop Use number when you set the Let Photoshop Use slider in the Performance preference to 100%. The RAM above the 100% used by Photoshop, which is from approximately 3 GB to 3.7 GB, can be used directly by Photoshop plug-ins (some plug-ins need large chunks of contiguous RAM), filters, and actions.

                                      and

                                      >The available RAM shown in the Performance preferences has already deducted an amount that is reserved for the operating system from the total RAM in your computer. You shouldn't set the percentage of RAM to be used by Photoshop to 100% (unless you are using more than 2G of RAM) because other applications which run at the same time as Photoshop (for example, Adobe Bridge CS4) need a share of the available RAM.

                                      OK, so nowhere does it say that we should set it to 100%. Nonetheless there is sufficient ambiguity in above quotes that many Ps users see 100% as a perfectly valid setting.
                                      • 16. Re: CR adjustment brushe on Mac 10.5 is just junk....
                                        Level 1
                                        What really dictates where to set the ram allocation is how much "free ram" you have in Activity Monitor when running and doing your normal work...with 16 gigs and running Leopard, with Photoshop & Bridge CS4 with no other apps running, I can get by running the allocation up-although I would never do 100%. But since Photoshop is giving ram over to Camera Raw, running the allocation too high can introduce stability and out of memory problems particularly if the amount of free ram EVER drops down below a couple hundred MBs...that's when you see lots of SBODs and where the system and Photoshop (and Bridge) will not play nice together...and with Camera Raw, stuff like Fill Light and Edge Mask as well as any of the local controls will severely tax your system. If you are running Photoshop/Bridge/Camera Raw & Lightroom, then it's even worse...since I often run all of these at once, I've just settled on 70% Ps allocation as being less prone to problems...
                                        • 17. Re: CR adjustment brushe on Mac 10.5 is just junk....
                                          Thomas Knoll Level 2
                                          Ian:

                                          The first quote is for 64-bit versions of Photoshop. My comments explicitly refer to 32-bit versions of Photoshop.

                                          The second quote is just wrong in practice.

                                          In Photoshop CS4, in the memory usage preference, there is an "Ideal Range" recommendation. For my system this ideal range tops out at 72%. Setting the value higher than the ideal range is a bad idea. It is possible that in some Photoshop workflows this make work OK, but that is absolutely not the case if your workflow includes Camera Raw.
                                          • 18. Re: CR adjustment brushe on Mac 10.5 is just junk....
                                            Ian Lyons MVP & Adobe Community Professional
                                            Thomas,

                                            >The first quote is for 64-bit versions of Photoshop. My comments explicitly refer to 32-bit versions of Photoshop.

                                            It's a Mac only document and it clearly states 64-bit OS not application. It caught me out the first time I read it.

                                            As for the second quote. Again, I agree with you, but it's not me that needs to be convinced that it's wrong. It's official documentation with this kind of error that causes so much confusion.