15 Replies Latest reply on Jan 9, 2009 8:55 PM by Ramón G Castañeda

    Adjustment brush in ACR slow

    GaryQm
      I'm finding the adjustment brush to be slow to take affect. There is a delay between making the brush stroke and seeing the adjustment occur. It starts out with a short delay, but increases with each stroke to the point where it takes 6-10 seconds after the brush stroke for the adjustment to show.

      The delay occurs if Camera Raw is hosted by Bridge or by Photoshop. The delay is longer when Camera Raw is in full screen mode, but it is still quite slow when not in full screen mode. Photoshop Memory Usage was set at 65% then dropped to 50% with no change in the delay. Virus protection software was disabled.

      My system is a Dell Dimension 8300 Pentium 4, 2.80GHz with 2GB of RAM running Windows XP with Service Pack 3. The video card is a NVIDA GeForce FX 5200 with 128 MB memory. Old gear for sure, but I'm wondering if there is anything I can do to improve the performance of the adjustment brush short of buying a new computer. Would upgrading the video card improve performance?
        • 1. Re: Adjustment brush in ACR slow
          Yammer Level 4
          There's a few tips for nVidia cards on the net. Just google 'Lightroom nVidia'. Let us know if it helps.
          • 2. Re: Adjustment brush in ACR slow
            GaryQm Level 1
            Your search suggestion led to several tips. I changed the Image Settings in the nVidia control panel from High Quality to High Performance but did not see an improvement in the performance.

            What did work was unchecking Auto Mask. I found that has eliminated the delay. There is still a slight pause when initiating the brush, but after that the result is instantaneous. So with Auto Mask unchecked the brush is very usable.

            One site recommends changes to the Manage 3D Settings in the nVidia control panel. Unfortunately when I go to Manage 3D Settings the control panel freezes up. So I'll have to solve that problem before experimenting with the settings.
            • 3. Re: Adjustment brush in ACR slow
              Thomas Knoll Level 2
              What version of Camera Raw are you running? (5.2 has some optimizations in this area).
              • 4. Re: Adjustment brush in ACR slow
                GaryQm Level 1
                I'm using version 5.0.0.178. This version is in the trial download of Photoshop. I will download and try version 5.2.
                • 5. Re: Adjustment brush in ACR slow
                  GaryQm Level 1
                  Running 5.2 the brush response no longer lags when Auto Mask is checked. Also the response seems a bit smoother overall. Thank you for the help.
                  • 6. Re: Adjustment brush in ACR slow
                    mikeengles Level 1
                    Hello

                    It seems to me that the whole masking process is rather lame, considering what is available in Photoshop proper, which has a very
                    sophisticated extract filter. The auto mask is supposed to make edge detection better(at least that is what the tool tip suggests), but it offers little discrimination. The ability to make really good masks in Raw mode would be a good reason to to upgrade to CS4, but only if it were really good. At least it seems to work faster than the Lightroom version.Roll on CS5 or 6?

                    Mike Engles
                    • 7. Re: Adjustment brush in ACR slow
                      Level 1
                      >It seems to me that the whole masking process is rather lame,

                      Then you don't understand what it was designed for nor how to use it. You really should learn because for what it's intended to do, it does it rather well. So, rather than fight it's limitations (and no, it's NOT like making a real mask in Photoshop) you should learn what it does do and use it for that. Otherwise, Photoshop is just a click away...
                      • 8. Re: Adjustment brush in ACR slow
                        mikeengles Level 1
                        Hello

                        Further to the above, a catch 22.
                        I am working on masking rooftops against sky,on a picture of Venice so I can darken the sky.

                        I have zoomed in and am working with a small brush, turns out discrimination is not too bad(my apologies). Now I need to use the hand tool, so I can move the image, I press K and try to continue
                        with the original mask, but I cannot access the pin, because it is off screen, no scroll bars. So I have to make a second mask. Ok I have to make several to complete the whole mask. Luckily the masks are continuous, but I need a new mask for windows in the bell tower, so I cannot add that to the original mask, a second pin is made.

                        It should be able to access the pins from a list, there is a huge space below the tick boxes,so you can continue adding to a single mask for the same effect. Otherwise you get an overlap with wierd effects. I would post a screen grab, but I cannot.

                        Now have to use a big brush to fill in the area. A fill tool would be useful, to complete the masked area. As I said there are already very fine extract tools in Photoshop, so why not make them available in Camera Raw?

                        It is possible that I am missing something!

                        Mike Engles
                        • 9. Re: Adjustment brush in ACR slow
                          mikeengles Level 1
                          Hello

                          I don't want to use Photoshop. I want to use Bridge to project slides of processed images. The ability to use advanced masking in Bridge/Camera Raw is what I need. That is why the masking at the moment is lame. It is no better in Lightroom.

                          There are so many great things that could have been done, if it had been thought through more before the release. It will come, I will wait and continue to use CS3.

                          Mike Engles
                          • 10. Re: Adjustment brush in ACR slow
                            Dennis 1111 Level 2
                            Mike,

                            Just use the space bar to temporarily change to the hand and then continue your masking. There are probably other ways to do it but that may be the simplest.

                            Remember that what is going on here is that ACR is registering everything you are doing as meta-commands inside the XMP side-car (or the ACR database or the DNG file as the case may be). It is not actually changing pixels. This makes things a little trickier in terms of performance, file sizes, and the complexity of the commands to be stored.
                            • 11. Re: Adjustment brush in ACR slow
                              mikeengles Level 1
                              Hello

                              Thanks for your reply.
                              I realise that no pixels are being changed, that is how the main Photoshop is also moving towards,the technology is converging.
                              It would have been possible to add all the possibilities of the
                              Extract filter to Camers Raw 5, but they chose not to.
                              I will buy an upgrade to my CS3 when it is worth the money.
                              The present version offers very little, other than in my opinion a hobbled masking system. It could have been so good!

                              Mike Engles
                              • 12. Re: Adjustment brush in ACR slow
                                rasworth Level 1
                                Mike,

                                I disagree with your premise that PS is moving toward non-destructive editing, because of the massive amount of pixels involved in layer functions. It's simply not practical to keep track of pixel operations in multiple 20+ megapixel layers, even given today's processing power.

                                The brush operations in ACR are useful for limited local mods, not massive edits. The results of such operations are recorded in list form within the xmp files, and have to be "read" in an interpretive fashion to apply the edits. As an experiment, perform a few brush operations and then examine the xmp file with a text editor to gain an appreciation of its size.

                                Richard Southworth
                                • 13. Re: Adjustment brush in ACR slow
                                  mikeengles Level 1
                                  Hello

                                  As far as I can see, both the video and audio editing world are already using non destructive editing and the files can be huge for video, so Photoshop will evolve in that direction also.
                                  The operations in ACR are just mask overlays, which are not really that complex, even though the xmp are large, but in the most complex one I have been using, it is only 157kb.It is a vector layer, whose mathematical description is held in the xmp.
                                  A comparable 8 bit mask as a channel in Photoshop would be 12mb in a 36mb uncompressed image.

                                  It is also the reason why CS4 has so many types of adjustment layers and filter layers. That is exactly what a mask in ACR is acting as,in other words a local adjustment layer.

                                  Many years ago there was a very good application called Picture Publisher, that recorded all pixel and layer operations as an editable text file, on a low res copy of the main image. The final compilation was rendered using the same text file on the full size image. The main problem with that the application was not accurate enough.It had a rounding error, so in certain circumstances 1000 pixels turned into 999 pixels. This as you could imagine would make some truly amazing final images, but not quite what was intended.

                                  I am sure that ACR will evolve and have quite extensive masking operations. There is a requirement to be able run a slide show in Bridge, with all images corrected this way and without having to use Photoshop proper, one image at a time.

                                  Adobe might also finally conclude that Lightroom will be redundant

                                  I can wait!

                                  Mike Engles
                                  • 14. Re: Adjustment brush in ACR slow
                                    MadManChan2000 Adobe Employee
                                    > Adobe might also finally conclude that Lightroom will be redundant

                                    Unlikely ...

                                    ;-)
                                    • 15. Re: Adjustment brush in ACR slow
                                      Ramón G Castañeda Level 4
                                      Nothing is redundant if it makes money in the end. :)