22 Replies Latest reply on Jan 23, 2009 10:31 PM by (Laryl_Hancock)

    using the loupe causes preview to change

      I pull up a raw in bridge (same thing happens in the preview slideshow btw) and all is good.. but if I use the loupe to magnify once I close the magnify loupe the image totally changes. I'm guessing it's some default but I need help learning how to stop it from happening. I've checked my default for the raw images and it is NOT what I get after closing the zoom.

      Does anyone know what I am talking about?
        • 1. Re: using the loupe causes preview to change
          John_Cornicello_Photo Level 2
          Has Bridge processed all of the images in teh folder yet when this happens? I've seen similar things where the Bridge thumbnail is showing the embedded JPG that is in the raw file. When you use the loupe the JPG is ignored and you see the ACR rendered preview of the raw file.

          A quick test of this would be to set your camera to a black & white or sepia mode and take a raw image. The raw image in Bridge should be in color. If you see a b&w in Bridge you are still seeing the camera rendered JPG.

          John
          • 2. Re: using the loupe causes preview to change
            Level 1
            thank you John.. I know a week or so ago I set to b/w just to see and I got color previews (which caused me a lot of forum traffic lol).

            Maybe what I need to do is just be sure I know how to go back to whatever it was before the preview changed. I'm guessing yes, the bridge should have processed all the images already because it happens sometimes on older images too. I have the preview button pressed to prefer to use the embedded info, maybe after the loupe is used it goes ahead for a high quality preview and is pulling in more settings?

            The result is normally much brighter, harsher (I don't like it) .. but keep in mind it doesn't always happen.. that's what confuses me and makes me wonder.
            • 3. Re: using the loupe causes preview to change
              Ramón G Castañeda Level 4
              What version? What platform? Machine specs, please.
              • 4. Re: using the loupe causes preview to change
                Level 1
                so sorry.. stupid of me.
                Win XP .. CS4 bridge 5.2 (it was doing it on 5.0 before I updated too)
                • 5. Re: using the loupe causes preview to change
                  Ramón G Castañeda Level 4
                  Machine specs, please.

                  Video card make and model, amount of V-RAM
                  • 6. Re: using the loupe causes preview to change
                    Level 1
                    Nvidia GeForce 9400GT .. I don't know what video ram it has sorry
                    My pc xp home sp3, pentium 4 3.0ghz with 3gb ram
                    • 7. Re: using the loupe causes preview to change
                      Ramón G Castañeda Level 4
                      >I don't know what video ram it has sorry

                      That information is key. :/

                      >Nvidia GeForce 9400GT

                      That card is NOT on the list of supported cards:

                      http://www.adobe.com/go/kb405711

                      Try disabling OpenGL in Photoshop's Preferences > Performance.

                      For more on display limitations see:

                      http://www.adobe.com/go/kb404898
                      • 8. Re: using the loupe causes preview to change
                        Level 1
                        Thank you, but.. It may not be on the list but it's doing a fine job.. the features for the openGL all work great and I'm not giving them up without a good reason. Those other features are fantastic and everything is fast and works so smoothly. Just to be open minded I turned off the openGL and restarted, confirmed the features weren't there so it was indeed off. I pulled up a few images, used the loupe and as I did that I see the loading 100% indicator next to the file name.. as soon as it loads that the image changes.. so it IS some preview change going from the fast preview to the 100% whatever that means....... and it has nothing to do with my video card as I knew.

                        Thanks for trying though.
                        • 9. Re: using the loupe causes preview to change
                          Ramón G Castañeda Level 4
                          >I see the loading 100% indicator next to the file name..

                          That is not "the loading indicator". It's the magnification factor in the loupe. You can change that with + and - keys.


                          >so it IS some preview change going from the fast preview to the 100% whatever that means

                          You're going from a preview that has already been built by Bridge to accessing the actual original image to create the image you see through the loupe.

                          What is your problem with that?
                          • 10. Re: using the loupe causes preview to change
                            Level 1
                            I didn't know I could change the magnification factor of the loupe so that's good to learn.. it is a loading indicator of the zoom to 100% in the loupe to be more correct and yes that makes sense.

                            My problem is .... once it has done that, the image itself, not the loupe magnification view.. but the image suddenly pops with different brightness and settings, it changes. I don't know why it's changing and I don't want it to.. I want to be able to zoom in and not have my image settings changed so that the photo looks different.
                            • 11. Re: using the loupe causes preview to change
                              Ramón G Castañeda Level 4
                              Laryl,
                              >but the image suddenly pops with different brightness and settings, it changes. I don't know why it's changing

                              I just told you why in #9:

                              You're going from a preview that has already been built by Bridge [based on the embedded JPEG preview] to accessing the actual original image to create the image you see through the loupe.


                              You cannot change that. The only way of seeing a minimal change would be to actually open the image in ACR and come up with adjustment settings that mimic the conversion performed by the camera's built in software (firmware) to generate the embedded JPEG used by Bridge.

                              I still don't know why that bothers you.

                              Why wouldn't you want to know what your raw image looks like when converted with whatever default settings you have in ACR? That's the sole purpose of the loupe as far as I can tell.
                              • 12. Re: using the loupe causes preview to change
                                Level 1
                                the "actual original image" is raw so how can you see it without applying something? you can't. *I* want to preview the image as close to the settings I took it with, the embedded.. NOT the ACR default that would be different from shoot to shoot.

                                Why would I want to see the image with an acr default that may or may not be what I shot?? You are saying every image I take should be automatically reprocessed with some defaults decided previously.. instead of what is in the embedded file.... that makes absolutely no sense to me.

                                The purpose of the loupe in my mind is to zoom in and see detail at full size.. it is NOT to apply some other default settings? If the bridge pulls in the image the way I want it, why does it makes sense to have the loupe go off and apply different defaults and not the ones I have embedded?? IF I want the ACR defaults I get them when I go to ACR.. not before I get there, throwing out what settings I choose in the camera.

                                As you said, I'm going from embedded to something else.. why can't the loupe show me 100% detail of what I have, using embedded, and close without going off and doing something I didn't ask it too????
                                I'd love someone to have that make sense to me. Or at least teach me how I can get back my embedded preview after using the loupe.

                                I'm having trouble believing this is supposed to work this way... or understanding why.
                                • 13. Re: using the loupe causes preview to change
                                  MadManChan2000 Adobe Employee
                                  > the "actual original image" is raw so how can you see it
                                  > without applying something? you can't. *I* want to preview
                                  > the image as close to the settings I took it with, the
                                  > embedded.. NOT the ACR default that would be different
                                  > from shoot to shoot.

                                  Laryl, in brief, the in-camera JPEG (which is what the initial preview is based on) is processed using algorithms and metadata that are, in general, not disclosed to Adobe. The in-camera settings affect the generation of the in-camera JPEG. Therefore, it is difficult (both for technical and legal reasons) for Adobe's software to reproduce the results corresponding to the in-camera settings.

                                  From a practical perspective, I would argue that the purpose of shooting raw is not to adhere closely to a rendering that a camera maker has chosen for you, but rather to provide your own rendering based on your own creative vision.

                                  Asking CR/LR to give you previews that match the camera settings is pretty much a lost cause at this point. Your best bet is to learn to use the CR defaults/presets system, which in my opinion is a much more productive way to work.
                                  • 14. Re: using the loupe causes preview to change
                                    dfranzen_adobe Level 3
                                    Laryl,

                                    If you really want a 100% or "1:1" sized preview of your camera's rendition of the RAW data instead of Camera Raw's rendition, then shoot in RAW+JPEG mode and put the loupe on the JPEGs.

                                    It's impossible to see the embedded preview in the loupe because the loop shows a 100% view, and the embedded JPEG previews are not full-size images. I suppose we could disable the loupe if you are viewing an embedded preview, but I'm not sure that would really be helpful.

                                    The reason that the preview is updated to the Camera Raw render after you use the loupe, even if you have the "Prefer Embedded" turned on is that once we have to generate the 100% preview to show it in the loop, we thought it was worse to have the appearance of the image in the loupe and preview mismatched.

                                    For example, imagine you have a file with ACR settings which convert it to grayscale, but you are browsing the file in Bridge with Prefer Embedded turned on. When the previews are initially cached you see the embedded, color preview. Then you bring up the loupe. Now, since there is no 100% embedded preview available, we have to get a high-quality preview at 100% from camera raw--which is grayscale. It looks pretty stupid (at least in my opinion) to have a loupe with grayscale pixels over a color preview, so Bridge replaces the embedded preview in the cache with a high quality (grayscale in this case) preview. Now the loupe and preview match. When you are done with the loupe, you could purge cache for the item if you really want the embedded preview to show up again in Bridge.

                                    The primary goal of Bridge's previews and thumbnails is to literally pre-view what the file looks like when you open it in Photoshop or Camera Raw. Since the Camera Raw dialog is not going to show you the embedded JPEG, by default Bridge doesn't either. The option to show embedded previews is primarily there to speed the editing process. You gain preview-caching speed at the expense of fidelity between the Bridge preview and Camera Raw.

                                    The ACR defaults only change if you change them, so you are in control of what is going on shoot to shoot. If you want to "bake" the current default into the settings for a RAW file so the appearance doesn't change when you modify the defaults again do the following...

                                    1. Open the files in the Camera Raw dialog.
                                    2. Click the Select All button in the filmstrip.
                                    3. Select "Export Settings to XMP" from the fly-out menu by the settings sliders.
                                    • 15. Re: using the loupe causes preview to change
                                      Level 1
                                      Excellent explaination Eric and I appreciate it. I've been trying to get up to speed, coming from CS2 to CS4 left me with a fair learning curve. I shoot raw and it's great to have the power to process to my vision as you say.. it's just been frustrating because what's coming up in the best guess preview seems closer to what I want than what adobe is plopping in there after the loupe is used. I would have gone on my merry way using settings in ACR once I got there but the complaint I have is that once I use the loupe on some images and not others, they are then all processed differently .. it's either all or nothing I guess to really 'compare' (yes I can turn off the fast preview but darn I like the way it looks and usually do end up close to it.. vs whatever is pulled in after the loupe is used)

                                      Ok.. guess we've thrashed this to death. My challenge is to find how to set defaults that are going to be good for previews.
                                      • 16. Re: using the loupe causes preview to change
                                        Level 1
                                        David.... THANK YOU. The info, some I've heard but needed to all be put together does pull it all together...

                                        Can I change the subject for a moment and ask an easy one for you I bet.. I updated from 5.0 to 5.2 and now I have what seems to be double camera profiles.. example I have DX2 Mode 1, 2, 3 but also Mode 1 beta 2 etc. Then now I also have Camera Neutral, Portrait, Standard, Vivid and under each the exact same thing ie Neutral beta 2 etc. Are those duplicates and should I have them?
                                        • 17. Re: using the loupe causes preview to change
                                          Ramón G Castañeda Level 4
                                          Laryl, <br />&gt;the "actual original image" is raw so how can you see it without applying something? <br /> <br /> By now both Eric and David, in an admirable display of patience approaching that of sainthood, have expanded on what I told you, so now you should know not only <i>"how"</i> but why. <br /> <br /> The beta duplicates you can safely delete now. You'll find them in: <br /> ROOT LEVEL (nameOfYourHardDisk)/ Library/ Application Support/ Adobe/ CameraRaw/ Camera Profiles/ . <br /> <br />c <a href="http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=1ElZy1klxbp1vjtH349R0BkFfqK2p0" /></a> <img alt="Picture hosted by Pixentral" src="http://www.pixentral.com/hosted/1ElZy1klxbp1vjtH349R0BkFfqK2p0_thumb.jpg" border="0" /> <br />c Click on thumbnail for full-size image, then scroll horizontally to follow the path. <br /> <br /> It is obvious to me that you don't really know what a raw image is (namely a very, very dark grayscale image devoid of anything that a human being could interpret as color, something you definitely don't want to look at), so I'm taking the liberty of recommending to you some <u> <b> <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Real-World-Camera-Adobe-Photoshop/dp/0321580133/ref=pd_bbs_sr _1?ie=UTF8&amp;s=books&amp;qid=1232659959&amp;sr=8-1">essential reading [CLICK HERE]</a> </b> </u>. Reading this book will save you potentially hundreds of hours trying to figure out and to learn how to use Camera Raw.
                                          • 18. Re: using the loupe causes preview to change
                                            Ramón G Castañeda Level 4
                                            Edited above post to include screen shot.
                                            • 19. Re: using the loupe causes preview to change
                                              Level 1
                                              What is obvious to you Ramon is in error. Your statement that we could see the "actual original image" was brought up because I DO understand raw and the original image can NOT be viewed as you say, without applying *something.* I was trying to figure out what was actually happening to that raw file in the bridge, because obviously two things were happening to it, both before and after the loupe... it wasn't the fact something was and HAD to happen it was WHAT was happening specifically and if there was a bridge feature I wasn't understanding in why it changed with the loupe. You seem to have missed my position on it from the get go.

                                              I am going to say my thank you's now to you and the others. I'm sorry if my questions to clarify things continued for too long to suit you and that it resulted in the comment it just did. To suggest it took nearly the patience of a saint to get through to me was a compliment to them, but hurtful to me.. but that's my problem. I'm thankful for those who have the patience to clarify things for grandma's like me who are having trouble pulling it all together. I do appreciate your help. Good night.
                                              • 20. Re: using the loupe causes preview to change
                                                Ramón G Castañeda Level 4
                                                You took one too many speed-reading course, Laryl. You are putting words in my mouth, and that comes from not reading my posts carefully.

                                                From my #9:

                                                You're going from a preview that has already been built by Bridge [based on the embedded JPEG preview] to accessing the actual original image to create the image you see through the loupe.


                                                Implied in that paragraph is accessing the actual original image through ACR to create the image you see through the loupe.

                                                From my #11:

                                                The only way of seeing a minimal change would be to actually open the image in ACR and come up with adjustment settings that mimic the conversion performed by the camera's built in software (firmware) to generate the embedded JPEG used by Bridge.


                                                and

                                                Why wouldn't you want to know what your raw image looks like when converted with whatever default settings you have in ACR? That's the sole purpose of the loupe as far as I can tell.

                                                [Emphasis added.]


                                                Of course you are absolutely free to disregard any advice I have to give, you don't even have to acknowledge it or express any appreciation at all, (as a matter of fact I couldn't care less about what you do with any advice or suggestions given to you) just don't attribute to me something I didn't write. I'm a grandfather myself, and can get as ornery as any geezer my age.
                                                • 21. Re: using the loupe causes preview to change
                                                  Ramón G Castañeda Level 4
                                                  Incidentally, you are correct in one thing: I would have been extra gentle if I had known you are a lady. I had never come across the name Laryl before, and mistakenly assumed it was a man's name like Daryl. My apologies. (English is not my first language, nor even my second or third but my eighth one.)
                                                  • 22. Re: using the loupe causes preview to change
                                                    Level 1
                                                    You are right. My stress level in trying to learn so many things at once and my desire to get these new versions (2 jumps at once) under control no doubt did cause me to not read carefully enough. If I had taken your words more slowly and repeatedly, and not moved ahead with the other posts that followed, I may have grasped what you said quicker. Some people do not learn with written words as well as others. I am one of those. I do not handle text learning as easily as others, and it sometimes causes me difficulty. Not that you care or need to hear it.

                                                    I understand it now and it was at your frustration and expense. I will try to not make this mistake in forums again. I apologized because I wanted to. Congrats on 8 languages, sorry I do so poorly with the only one I know. fyi I have never taken a speed reading course and understand fully that you "couldn't care less what *I* do with any advice or suggestions" you have given me.