11 Replies Latest reply on Jun 13, 2007 9:54 AM by (Barry_Clive_Pearson)

    Camera RAW 4.1 Blur Issue

      I updated to the new version of Camera RAW as soon as I learned it was available. I am running Windows Vista Business, and Photoshop Extended. My RAW files are generated by a Canon 20D camera. Right away I noticed that, even with sharpening Amount turned to Zero, I am getting a weird rippling effect in the areas where my images go out of focus. It's almost like the effect you would get with the Glass filter with a small amount of distorion. The areas where the image is in focus, there doesn't seem to be a problem, it's in the transition to blur where I really see the effect. I reverted back to my previous version of Camera RAW and the problem goes away. This effect, whatever it is, is unacceptable, and I certainly hope it is a bug, not a feature. Has anyone else seen this or have a comment?
        • 1. Re: Camera RAW 4.1 Blur Issue
          Level 1
          What ISO? What noise reduction setting? What zoom in CR?
          • 2. Re: Camera RAW 4.1 Blur Issue
            Level 1
            As far as ISO, it doesn't seem to matter. I saw it in images at 100, and also at 400. Naturally I was viewing at 100% in Camera RAW. I have the Color Noise Reduction setting at a default of about 30, but I also played around with that it it didn't seem to make a difference. I also played around with Luminance - again to no avail. I forgot to mention in the original post that I tried using sharpening with various settings, and it just got worse. As I mentioned, this problem also occurs with Amount set to 0.
            I would also like to point out that I use Canon 'L' Series Lenses, the best glass they provide for the EOS line of cameras.
            • 3. Re: Camera RAW 4.1 Blur Issue
              PECourtejoie Adobe Community Professional
              Could you post a screenshot? are you viewing images at 100% magnification?
              • 4. Re: Camera RAW 4.1 Blur Issue
                Level 1
                I don't know how to, or if I can, submit a screenshot. However what I have done is put a sample file on my web server here:

                http://www.eclecticimagery.com/composite.tif

                I recommend downloading the file and view at 200% to really see the effect, although it is visible at 100%, and becomes more pronounced if you attempt to sharpen the image. For this example, I did a small amount of sharpening, and I have also included a comparison of the exact same image having used RAW 4.0. The settings I used to sharpen each one were:

                Camera RAW 4.0
                Amount 30
                Luminance 40
                Color 29
                ________________________________
                Camera RAW 4.1
                Amount 38
                Radius .9
                Detail 8
                Mask 0
                Luminance 40
                Color 29

                Adjusting the Color Noise filter slider back and forth seems to have the greatest effect on this phenomenon, however it's always there regardless of the setting.
                • 5. Re: Camera RAW 4.1 Blur Issue
                  PECourtejoie Adobe Community Professional
                  Mike, Are you using a mac or a PC? on a PC, hit the Print Screen button, create a new document and Paste the image.
                  The print screen shortcut on a mac is Shift-Apple-3 you'll hear a shutter sound, and a file is placed on your desktop.
                  • 6. Re: Camera RAW 4.1 Blur Issue
                    Level 1
                    Create a new document where? Paste it where? I can't paste an image inside this text box. And I don't need to create a new document within Photoshop. I've already been through all that. I'm not sure what you're getting at.
                    • 7. Re: Camera RAW 4.1 Blur Issue
                      PECourtejoie Adobe Community Professional
                      You do the print screen operation, then create a new document in Photoshop, paste the image (on a pc) on a mac; you open the PNG file, then crop it to show the issue, and reduce slightly the image size, and post the image on a free image hosting site (flickr, etc.) and insert a link in you post here.
                      • 8. Re: Camera RAW 4.1 Blur Issue
                        Level 1
                        I did all that. If you read the post I left after your post about leaving a screen shot, I did exactly that. I created a sample image and left it on my web site. Here's the address again:

                        http://www.eclecticimagery.com/composite.tif

                        Read the post I left previsouly for the sharpening settings I used for each one.
                        • 9. Re: Camera RAW 4.1 Blur Issue
                          Mike, you're not alone with this problem. I noticed the same rippling effect on my photos taken with Canon EOS 400D. At first I thought it must be 4.0 and 4.1 producing different renderings of the image with the same sharpening settings, but as your findings suggest, it may not be that simple.
                          • 10. Re: Camera RAW 4.1 Blur Issue
                            Level 1
                            Thanks, Jack, for sounding off on this topic. Jeff Schewe was the first to respond to this thread (as you may already know, he was totally involved in the creation of the new version of Camera RAW), so hopefully he's working on it.
                            • 11. Re: Camera RAW 4.1 Blur Issue
                              Level 1
                              > "I am getting a weird rippling effect in the areas where my images go out of focus".

                              I downloaded the TIFF image http://www.eclecticimagery.com/composite.tif
                              and superimposed the ACR 4.0 and ACR 4.1 versions as separate layers on top of one-another, pixel-aligned. I then spent some time clicking the visibility of the top layer.

                              Even at 200% and 400%, all I can see it that ACR 4.1 appears to be very slightly sharper, and has slightly less noise.

                              I can't detect the "weird rippling effect" that the original poster mentioned. I think there was a very slight amount of small-scale posterisation in the ACR 4.1 image, perhaps resulting from a reduction in the amount of "dither" that was present in ACR 4.1 because of the reduced amount of noise.

                              I converted the ACR 4.1 layer ready for Smart Filters, and applied Noise at 1 (I would have prefered less) and Gaussian Blur at 0.3, to try to get a match between them (Noise below Gaussian Blur). When I toggle between them, the effect is far less, although not exactly the same.

                              But this does suggest that one way of making ACR 4.1 look like ACR 4.0 is to add a combination of noise & blur!