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Well Posted A Kirk,,, I feel the same way about this subject too, especially the way a person gets treated when asking about his subject.
I too bought the 40D knowing that there would be a slight wait for Camera Raw support.
That depends on whether the question you're asking can be answered by spending a couple of minutes perusing a strange place called "Google".
Well I've Googled till my fingers bleed, and anyway I'm old enough to be able to handle rudeness from strangers. So I'll ask...
Would someone from Adobe please give an indication as to when support for the Canon EOS 40D Raw may be released? I won't hold you to it, I know schedules can change etc. etc. etc. but any reasonable expectation would be better than me having to come back to the site twice daily just to check.
Right now my workflow is less than optimal with this camera :-)
Adobe policy is to not pre-announce release dates or information.
However, ACR is updated three or four times a year, so you could work out an approximate time frame based on when the last version was released.
(edited for grammar/clarity)
Thanks Klaas. Now I can work it out. For the benefit of other readers, 4.1 was released May 30th. So three or four times a year implies a window of August 30th to September 30th so we are half way through that period. I'll keep checking every day then!
If your camera doesn't make it to the next release, then there's always the next one to look forward to. And the next one after that, and so on and so forth
All of which is addressed in the FAQs of this forum.
PECourtejoie, "+++ Camera Raw - Frequently Asked Questions +++" #1, 15 Aug 2005 1:30 am
Q: When will the new update of Adobe Camera Raw be released?
A: Adobe cannot comment on unannounced products, however, they expect to update ACR 3 or 4 times per year.
There are rumors of an impending update to ACR and LR any day now. The adobe website even had a leak for a few hours that showed support for the 40D in LR 1.2. The same thing happened a day before the 1.1 update. Of course, this is just reading tea leaves.
P.S. this forum is like any other on the internet - lots of uncivilized behaviour and impatience (where do those people get the time to respond - I don't know). Don't let the uncivilized people deter you from asking questions, no matter how dumb some people think they are. You'll learn a lot, even if it is just about human nature.
Thanks Jao! I always hope that even what appears to be boorish rude uncivilised behavior is really just someone with limited communication skills and that behind that disability they are still a nice person.
I've been using the internet for nearly thirty years and I have gotten used to it. I don't take it personally and I don't judge the other person based on a poor piece of communication.
Anyway if you look back over this thread you'll see half a dozen people cooperating to get a good outcome, which has not been effected by a little bit of static.
You may give some folks too much credit but that's a good attitude. My 40D should be in the mail soon and I'm guessing from an email by an Adobe manager that RAW support may be here before my camera. Hopefully it will at least be a close race. The email I received indicated support is "very close". Take that as you will.
A few observations about responses to questions like this:
1. I wouldn't expect an FAQ to be able to answer a question about a specific camera, so I am not surprised when people don't consult the FAQ. (It is easy to overlook it anyway). FAQs are normally for answering more generic questions. (I once maintained an FAQ for a newsgroup, and I suspect that it was mostly used by the regulars for copy-&-paste for fast responses!)
2. The FAQ here isn't as helpful as some responses have been in other threads:
- It might be more useful to say "about every 3 or 4 months" rather than "3 or 4 times a year". I doubt if people will really think that all 4 releases are during one month, but people want to know when the next release may be, not how many they can expect in the coming year.
- While it may well be official Adobe policy not to give dates, in practice Adobe, and people close to Adobe, sometimes give clues. So it is probably worth asking the question anyway "just in case".
- The FAQ doesn't give the date of the last release, so doesn't enable people to guess the date of the next release without further information.
3. In nearly every thread like this, here and elsewhere, while there may be some criticisms of the question, there are nearly always helpful answers too. Therefore, the most effective policy is to ask the question anyway and simply ignore the unhelpful responses.
That won't change, because this policy is reinforced by the helpful responses! And the people who ask the question next time may not be the ones who saw the criticisms this time.
4. It is misleading to imply that people here have no idea when the support for a particular camera will be, or that if it isn't supported in the next version it also may not be supported in the one after that either.
We all know that Adobe will support a major camera as soon as it can be fitted into the development cycle, and if it misses the next release it WILL make the one after that. That may be a useful response.
I think the immediate posting of why does't Adobe support such and such a
camera is a very limited case. Overall, I think the people on this forum do
a pretty good job of helping with all levels of questions.
The problem with the camera support one is that it happens everytime a new
camera with raw support is released. It is hacked to death so often all over
the net that I find it hard to hear a reason why people have to keep asking
this. It isn't like Adobe isn't going to support a new Canon or Nikon or
Pentax camera unless a ton of people ask about why Adobe doesn't currently
Raw files and Adobe's support there of have been around long enough now that
anyone should no how it all works. Adobe isn't the only one either most raw
programs have to be updated.
This I think is the exception and by and large the people on here do a
pretty good job with the "there is no such thing as a stupid question"
edict. However we are all humans (for the most part) and so we do have good
days and bad days.
Of course what you say makes sense. The only thing that you've left out is how this all looks from the casual user's perspective.
This event (lack of 40D support today) is the first time I have cause to visit the forums. It may be the last. So from the perspective of someone for whom this may be the first and last visit to the forums, I'd add something to your comments. I write also as someone whose profession is helping IT organisations improve their customer service, so I'm kinda giving Adobe some free consulting here ;-)
First, the casual users who have been rudely flamed didn't deserve it. They have no reason to visit 800 other threads where everyone has been helpful, they will only remember this one negative customer experience. That is human nature. You say
i "anyone should no how it all works"
but I do not believe this is true of the casual user. The very fact that they are asking the question should tell you that.
Second, Adobe could provide more information in the FAQ that would have reduced the number of questions. Maybe Adobe could even have been proactive and started a Canon 40D thread on day zero with more information in it. Maybe the details are wrong, but something like:
b Canon 40D Support
We can't give an exact date for release of support for this camera, but we can tell you:
* We intend to release a new version of Camera Raw every three or four months
* The current version of Camera Raw (V4.1) came out at the end of May 2007
* Cameras such as the 40D are in our "tier 1" for support, in that we prioritise tier 1 cameras ahead of some more esoteric models.
* In the past, we have provided support for new tier 1 cameras in the very next release 95% of the time. The remaining 5% made the following release.
* If you subscribe to this thread you'll get email notification as soon as the next version of Camera Raw is released.
* New versions of Camera Raw will not work with some older versions of Photoshop. Visit <<url here>> for more information.
You live in a dream world, Patrick. Get real.
[As if Adobe or any other company had an obligation to keep track of every single model that appears on the market to publish a note for each one, rather than rely on the common sense of the bloke who buys such a model.]
Ramon seems so authoritative. Now I'm all worried. Maybe Adobe are always in react mode, not talking to the other important players in their market space.
Can someone from Adobe please confirm that they knew that the 40D was coming?
Don't bother, I'm only kidding.
Knowing a model is coming and actually receiving the necessary data and a production copy from the camera manufacturer are two entirely different things.
There is such a thing as proactive.
On all the players!
> There is such a thing as proactive.
I'm surprised you would stoop to using that term, Lawrence.
That word is my pet peeve in the English language. Steve Covey coined its misuse out of ignorance.
"Proactive" as opposed to "anti-active"? If preventive is meant, then "pro" is the wrong suffix. Do you "pro-plan" or pre-plan?
Actually, you plan. Period. You don't "plan ahead" either, as it's impossible to plan backwards.
The opposite of passive is active. It requires no suffix.
The opposite of reactive is either causative or unreactive (chemistry).
Yes, the camera manufacturers should plan properly and make sure their products are properly supported when they hit the shelves.
Here we go again, the ******** has started, and yes it started from the same person again.
Two lousy posts on all these forums. You chose this second post of yours to contribute the extent of your acumen, miklas?
English is not a frozen language. Many words have become part of the vernacular even as they seem improbable or a misuse at the time. It was John Ciardi as I recall that did short radio interludes exploring the way this happens and some of the resulting words.
My pets are Inflammable, and...gad, I can't remember it! My mother used it all the time. Drove me nuts!
Time has erased it. :-)
I suppose the opposite of proactive might be conactive.
You are right. It's stupid.:D
I surely do not know all your pet peeves Ramon, but give me time.:-)
Off to Chicago tomorrow!
You can all relax now while you download the updated ACR4.2. It's out now and works like a dream with 40D files :)
Thanks again, Adobe.
Thanks guys :)
>I surely do not know all your pet peeves Ramon, but give me time.
Actually, you donow: Velvia and "proactive". :D
4.2 is working wonders..
From Patrick Keogh:
> "The only thing that you've left out is how this all looks from the casual user's perspective. This event (lack of 40D support today) is the first time I have cause to visit the forums. It may be the last".
I think that is what is important. After all, presumably a casual user uses user-to-user forums to discussion topical things with other users! Why else do user-to-user forums exist?
> "First, the casual users who have been rudely flamed didn't deserve it".
Users who simply ask questions seeking information don't. Users who wrongly criticise Adobe and mislead others as a result of their own lack of knowledge can expect criticial responses. So "any idea when ...?" is OK; but "Adobe needs to deliver support the day a camera is released" is not.
> "Second, Adobe could provide more information in the FAQ that would have reduced the number of questions".
I doubt if anything done to the FAQ would make much difference; my own experience with maintaining an FAQ is that many people simply don't read them, even when they know about them!
But, when I read the FAQ here, I do feel that, while the questions are indeed typical ones, the answers are not. The answers tend to look "official", "hygienic" answers, not that sort of more informative answers that often get posted.
> "Maybe Adobe could even have been proactive and started a Canon 40D thread on day zero with more information in it. Maybe the details are wrong, but something like:"
These are user-to-user forums, and perhaps regulars here could exploit your text. Something like your text posted early on in a thread might bring it to a halt quite quickly. A useful feature of your text is that, while it doesn't actually refine the date much compared with the FAQ, it gives background information that might give users confidence that something is being done.
(In DPReview forums, some people actually thought Adobe needed prompting to support the 40D, and were suggesting to others that they make formal requests to Adobe. This arose because of what looked like an automated response from Adobe themselves that suggested that this was needed for new features. Users don't always know the background processes that regulars here know).
Patrick's idea seems a sensible one. It might be useful to calm down the ire of some users, both newcomers, and some longtime users of this forum ;) A sticky thread, where the title is edited to add major cameras should do the job.
Patrick, the only caveat to your suggestion (sorry for all the nitpicking) is that this forum is a user-to-user forum, and
Adobe Enginners post here in their free time, so you are not adressing "Adobe" directly.
Edit: Barry, ah, DPreview's forums... If Zalman Stern and very few others would not visit it, it would be almost useless(knowledge-wise) to visit it, besides to try to clear the vast amount of FUD (or have fun with the "creative" new models leak). Note:
I do not speak about the retouching forum, but about the "cameras" forum.
To Barry Clive Pearson and PECourtejoie : thank you for your positive feedback. Like I said early on in this thread, giving this kind of advice is what I do for a living so I hope I can do it sensibly after all these years :-)
As to this being user-to-user : in my experience there are two sorts of product support forums, those where the vendor is visible and those where the vendor is just lurking ;-)
I'm sure Adobe got the message, it is just a matter of where they place this kind of improvement in terms of their overall priorities. Many technology companies think that the technology is the only thing and forget about customer service basics. I'm not saying that Adobe is like that, I don't really know.
In any event the technology is important, and I have it and it works! Have a great weekend wherever you are on planet earth.
I'm out of here now and may never be back.
Does anyone know it 40D support will be available in a Camera Raw update for CS2 users, i.e. an update to 3.7, or will CS users have to upgrade to CS3 and ACR 4.2?
Mike, sorry, there will be no update to ACR3.7.
BUT the camera is supported in version 2.4 and later of ACR
you convert your CR2 files to DNG, thanks to the free and just released DNG converter, in V4.2, thus you do not need to update Photoshop to get the support of your new camera body. (But you will not get all the numerous improvements, including those for Camera Raw)
Ah, thanks for that.
I'm about to head off to the USA for a holiday in a couple of hours so I give some thought to DNG and / or PS3 on the trip. Meanwhile I've just grabbed the 1.2 update to Lightroom which has 40D support
then you are good to go, if you export to DNG from Lightroom
I ran the CS3 update and now can open my Canon 40D RAW files.
But.............now any .jpg, large or small, from any source, takes 20 seconds to come into view. Before the update it was almost instant.
Have anyone tried out 40D's sRAW (small RAW) format files import to Lightroom 1.2 or Camera Raw 4.2? I have not managed to make it work, have you?
sRAW isn't currently supported.
I know this may be a stupid question, but from the posts I've read here, I haven't found a straight-forward answer.
I recently purcahsed a 40D and currently have CS2 with cameraraw 3.7
Now, is there going to be an update to 3.7 that is going to allow me to open up 40D raws in Photoshop CS2?
>is there going to be an update to 3.7 that is going to allow me to open up 40D raws in Photoshop CS2?
ACR 3.7 is the last version of ACR to run in CS2, and CS2 is no longer supported. There will be no further updates to 3.x or CS2.
Your choices are:
1. Download the stand-alone Adobe DNG Converter 4.2 to convert your 40D raw files to DNG raw files that you can then open in ACR 3.7 under CS2;
2. Upgrade to CS3 so you can update ACR to 4.2 (which plug-in does not work in CS2); or
3. Use the Canon software.