15 Replies Latest reply on Dec 6, 2007 12:55 PM by (James_P._Jones)

    Fuji S5 use both photosites?

    Level 1
      I'm thinking of buying a Fuji S5 Pro and use Lightroom, which from what I understand uses the ACR engine (and vice-versa).

      I've heard that ACR isn't as good at S5 conversions as the Fuji HS-V3 converter, however given the workflow I'll probably use Lightroom for basic pictures anyway.

      The question I have, just because it would be better, is does the ACR converter actually take advantage of both the S and R pixel photosites to get the higher DR? Or does it say, just chuck the R pixels (I'd hope not but...)?

      Thanks in advance!
        • 1. Re: Fuji S5 use both photosites?
          ArrrBee Level 1
          I could be wrong but I believe Adobe and Lightroom and ACR fully supports
          the S5 Pro. What you maybe hearing is that some people feel that the raw
          processing software that comes from the cameras maker does a better job. I
          don't agree and even if their was a difference most of the software that
          comes with your camera is just horrible as far as the interface and ease of
          use goes.

          I have a friend with the S5 Pro and he uses Lightroom and has had no
          complaints. He does however shoot mostly JPG as the RAW files from this
          camera don't have the same drastic improvement over the JPGs that other
          cameras do. I guess that is a good thing on Fuji's part. Finally something
          different that isn't a joke.

          Robert
          • 2. Re: Fuji S5 use both photosites?
            Level 1
            For most other cameras, including even say the Fuji S2, what I've generally heard is ACR/Lightroom is a pretty close match to manufacturer's (it certainly looks so to me). However, specifically for Fuji S5 they say ACR isn't as good, particularly on high ISO stuff. So the negativity seems to be pretty directed and in most cases appears to be from people who already use ACR or Lightroom and would like to continue too. So, while I certainly run into the occasional blanket "ACR is worse", that's not my impression of these comments - it's specific to the S5 and ACR.

            Yes, I've also heard the JPEGs are amazingly tack on out of the box. What I may do is use the option for the "Fine JPEG/RAW" output and thus not convert most of the ones that look good, and convert the ones that don't.

            It does sound at lower ISOs the difference isn't so noticable, so I may also just use Lightroom for most conversions, but go back to Fuji's for the ones that really need the quality.

            I still would love to know if there is some "official" statement from Adobe that they use both pixels rather than chuck the highlight pixels (which is one mode that even the camera will do for smaller image sizes with lower DR).

            Thanks for your response Robert. Much appreciated!
            • 3. Re: Fuji S5 use both photosites?
              Thomas Knoll Level 2
              "I still would love to know if there is some "official" statement from Adobe that they use both pixels rather than chuck the highlight pixels"

              Camera Raw really does use BOTH the S and R pixels. Are you happy now?
              • 4. Re: Fuji S5 use both photosites?
                Level 1
                Yes, I am. Thank you very much Thomas!
                • 5. Re: Fuji S5 use both photosites?
                  ArrrBee Level 1
                  Come on Thomas don't be so ******... oh, hell having to constantly pull
                  apart all of the dumbas# camera companies propritary raw files would make
                  anyone snitty. :)

                  Robert
                  • 6. Re: Fuji S5 use both photosites?
                    Level 1
                    Glad I wasn't the only one who caught the snark, but having Thomas actually answer me personally was probably worth it (in fact I'm going to never clear my browser cache again!). ;-)

                    And yeah, if I was reverse engineering someone else's convoluted idea of what a bitmap should look like 24x7 I'd have my boxers in a bunch too!

                    I do think it's a pretty useful piece of information for S5 users though...

                    Thanks again Thomas (and Robert)
                    • 7. Re: Fuji S5 use both photosites?
                      Level 1
                      Ok, I shouldn't look a gift horse in the mouth, but now that I do in fact have a Fuji S5 I was wondering if someone from Adobe could maybe outline beyond the fact that both S and R photosites are used, how they are used? That is, how they are mixed in by ACR and Lightroom (particularly the later, though I know they are the same engine)?

                      What sort of adjustments actually yield the highlight R pixels being factored in? Adjusting the fill light? The recovery? Just the exposure? Does it just happen "magically" (ie: in some algorithmic way too complicated to explain)?

                      If someone were so inclined it would be really handy to know for us Fuji users!

                      Thanks in advance.
                      • 8. Re: Fuji S5 use both photosites?
                        Thomas Knoll Level 2
                        Exposure and/or Recovery.
                        • 9. Re: Fuji S5 use both photosites?
                          Level 1
                          Thank you very much Thomas! Much appreciated!
                          • 10. Re: Fuji S5 use both photosites?
                            I also thank you very much for this answer.

                            I have an additional question about the S and R photosites. Are they still used in:

                            A Compress RAF file?
                            A DNG file? (Under Preserve RAW and or Linear Image Conversion Methods)?
                            • 11. Re: Fuji S5 use both photosites?
                              Thomas Knoll Level 2
                              Yes and Yes (both).
                              • 12. Re: Fuji S5 use both photosites?
                                Level 1
                                As long as you're on the subject - it was asked on "dpreview" Fuji SLR forum if curves (in Lightroom) have any impact on the use of the S and R mix?

                                I said I would pass it on if you're feeling generous enough to answer it.

                                Thanks in advance.
                                • 13. Re: Fuji S5 use both photosites?
                                  Thomas Knoll Level 2
                                  Internally, the S&R images are first merged into a single HDR image. The S pixels are used for lower part of the tone range, and the R pixel are used top of the range, with a smooth transition between the two. This merging is completely independent of all the camera raw controls. The exposure and recovery sliders adjust the white clipping point in this merged HDR image. The other tone controls adjust the rendering of the values between zero and the white clipping point.
                                  • 14. Re: Fuji S5 use both photosites?
                                    Level 1
                                    That's a great answer and really clears thing up.

                                    Thank you very much Thomas.
                                    • 15. Re: Fuji S5 use both photosites?
                                      Is it possible to pull out just the R or S pixels in ACR? I believe DCRAW has this ability. The goal would be to create my own HDR images. Secondly, I had read that ACR only has 5 stops of manipulation, while the Fuji RAW has closer to 7 stops of data. I assume this is part of the internal HDR conversion. Is this accurate?

                                      Thank you