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>I think part of the problem is that i upped the saturation in camera, and the raw converters have been stripping this away to desaturate colours
The main problem is that you don't understand what a raw file is...the ONLY raw converter that can read settings set on the camera (other than exposure and ISO) are those that use the camera SDKin your case, DPP. A raw file has no real rendering and the raw converter must give it one. What you are seeing change is the difference between the Canon SDK and the Camera Raw default. And note that the Camera Raw "default" is just that, a default rendering. If you don't like it, you can change it and make the changes based on camera serial number and capture ISO as well.
What you need to do is forget the camera settings (except exposure and ISO) and concentrate on learning how to use Camera Raw to get the renderings you want...
> the ONLY raw converter that can read settings set on the camera (other than exposure and ISO) are those that use the camera SDKin your case, DPP
This is not correct. ACR and the DNG converter are making heavy use of the camera maker's proprietory information. As such, it would not cost a cent for ACR to take the in-camera specification.
I can only speculate on this, but I think the reason that ACR does not support the in-camera settings is, that there are no equivalent specifications in DNG. I.e. ACR is not doing anything, what can not be replicated on pure DNG bases. Think of white balance: that too is a setting, which needs to be extracted, but that can be converted in DNG.
The saturation, sharpness, contrast are defined in Exif, but those specifications are too simplicistic to be of practical use.
>This is not correct. ACR and the DNG converter are making heavy use of the camera maker's proprietory information. As such, it would not cost a cent for ACR to take the in-camera specification.
Not true at all. The ONLY metadata CR parses is white balance...an then applied the Camera Raw default, not the camera maker's default. Camera Raw uses neither the SDK nor the demosaicing of the camera makers.
The rest of the metadata is transfered and stored, but not used by Camera Raw (nor Lightroom).
As far as walking down the road of trying to use camera settings that would NEVER match, that's a fool's errand.
Hi Jeff, I follow what your saying. I understand that Camera Raw starts out processing a RAW file with just the white temp, ISO and exposure taken at the time of capture (assuming there are no "auto" settings or develop preferences being applied). My question to you is why, while initially opening a raw file in Lightroom or selecting a thumbnail to view in the preview pane in bridge, there occurs a noticeable color shift and a brightening of the shadow areas. I'm curious because when I viewed some headshots (from my 1ds mk2) I noticed red blotchy areas in the deep shadows while the initial thumbnails in Lightroom and Bridge seemed to have a more natural transition to black. Where does this blotchy color in the shadows come from and how do I make go away?
Mark, I believe that when you first see a thumbnail as it comes into Bridge it is displaying the embedded JPG thumbnail and then Bridge uses Camera Raw to generate a new thumbnail based on the raw content instead of the JPG.
You can really test/see this if you set your camera to B&W mode but shoot in raw. When the file first comes into Bridge it will be in B&W for a second and then will switch to color.
I can confirm your B&W sightings. I shoot with a Nikon D2Xs. so its not a camera-thing.
I had an additional problem with skin-tones in Lightroom 1.3.1 where the image thumbnails (that think might be embedded into the raw file) get replaced by the Lightroom thumbnails it renders in its database. Reading from the same file on disk, this problem only exists in Lightroom though - not in ACR/Bridge or Photoshop. for whatever reason.
i did a whole process of elimination thing with colour spaces and camera settings and still no change. I have also done the lightroom camera profile sync by serial number thing, but my skintones still look bad (like over exposed JPEG skintones, but even preview.app on my iMac renders the RAW data perfectly.
Since there is no standard skin color there is no standard calibration, often shot under different light conditions makes it more difficult. Use the HSL sliders in ACR, mainly the luminance and saturation magenta purple and yellow (but that is my experience using Canon), to fine tune the skin tone. Its reasonable easy and fast with amazing results.