1 2 Previous Next 55 Replies Latest reply on Apr 15, 2010 2:05 PM by Stacy Rosenstock

    ACR to Jpg discards file corrections

      Windows XP, Photoshop and Bridge CS3, ACR 4.4.1, monitor freshly calibrated with SpyderPro. Files captured with Nikon D300 in RAW.

      When importing a RAW file to ACR, I make adjustments to white balance, exposure, brightness, etc., then attempt to save the file as a jpg and the jpg file does not retain the edits I made in ACR. Saving to Adobe RGB or sRGB has no effect. 16 bit or 8 bit, no effect. In addition, if I save as a PSD or DNG file, the edits are retained. But, if I convert that PSD or DNG from ACR to a jpg, I lose my edits and the file reverts to its original form as captured from the camera.

      Folks, I'm stumped. I can't seem to locate a solution. And so far it seems others are having similar troubles but not just like mine. I thought it might be monitor calibration but have ruled that out. I thought it might be color space related but modifying color space doesn't seem to have any impact.

      I'm hoping for some help. Right now I'm unable to fulfill any client orders because I don't have confidence that my file edits are being retained.

      Thanks in advance.

      Greg Smith
        • 1. Re: ACR to Jpg discards file corrections
          Level 1
          >When importing a RAW file to ACR, I make adjustments to white balance, exposure, brightness, etc., then attempt to save the file as a jpg and the jpg file does not retain the edits I made in ACR.

          And exactly HOW are you saving the file? From Camera Raw's Save function?
          • 2. Re: ACR to Jpg discards file corrections
            JimHess-8IPblY Level 3
            How are you trying to convert the images to JPEG? There are several ways that it does work for me:

            1. Open the images in ACR and use the Save button.
            2. Create an action that processes the images through ACR and then saves the JPEG.
            3. Use Dr. Brown's 1-2-3 Processor.

            If you are trying to convert the images in some process that bypasses ACR then you will not have your changes. Photoshop will not read the metadata. The images must be passed to Photoshop through ACR in order for those changes to be included.
            • 3. Re: ACR to Jpg discards file corrections
              Level 1
              I'm opening files in Adobe Bridge, selecting the batch to work on and then opening them in Adobe Camera Raw. When I've finished with my corrections, I select all, and then try to use the save button to save the images as jpgs in a separate folder. But the save function is not saving the jpg images with the corrections that I've just made. They're jpgs, alright - just not corrected ones.

              Let me know what else I can tell you to help with this diagnosis.

              Greg
              • 4. Re: ACR to Jpg discards file corrections
                JimHess-8IPblY Level 3
                That just doesn't make sense. I'm no expert, but I have never run into a problem like that. Now I'm just going to grab at a couple of straws. I don't know if anything I say will help.

                Could this possibly be a color space mismatch? What are you viewing the JPEGs with? If not Photoshop, is the viewer a color managed program? Are you saving the JPEGs in the sRGB color space? Since I don't know your workflow, I realize these questions could be way out of line. Just looking for some possibilities.
                • 5. Re: ACR to Jpg discards file corrections
                  Ramón G Castañeda Level 4
                  Greg,
                  >When I've finished with my corrections, I select all, and then try to use the save button to save the images as jpgs in a separate folder.

                  If you want to retain your ACR adjustments made to a JPEG file you HAVE to open the file first in Photoshop and SAVE it within Photoshop.

                  The Batch process of closed files bypasses ACR.
                  • 6. Re: ACR to Jpg discards file corrections
                    DavidRitch-BPYbxw Level 1
                    Ramón,

                    Is the Save button in ACR really *supposed* to bypass ACR? If it does, that sounds like a bug to me. It's certainly counter-intuitive behavior. When I edit a file in any tool and click Save, I generally expect the saved version of the file to reflect the modifications I just made.

                    Greg,

                    Try adding one additional step. Instead of clicking the Save button, click Done. This should save your edits with the raw files. Then, highlight the files in Bridge, and select Tools->Photoshop->Image Processor. You can select a destination directory, an action to run, to convert to sRGB colorspace, and such. Then click run.

                    I believe that will avoid the problem you're seeing.

                    David
                    • 7. Re: ACR to Jpg discards file corrections
                      Level 1
                      That just doesn't make sense. I'm no expert, but I have never run into a problem like that. Now I'm just going to grab at a couple of straws. I don't know if anything I say will help.

                      Could this possibly be a color space mismatch? What are you viewing the JPEGs with? If not Photoshop, is the viewer a color managed program? Are you saving the JPEGs in the sRGB color space? Since I don't know your workflow, I realize these questions could be way out of line. Just looking for some possibilities.

                      Jim - it doesn't make sense to me either. I've actually viewed the jpgs in several other programs. The windows and word picture viewers, plus Photo Illustration, and Photoshop and Bridge. I've also had others view them on their machines. It's not a monitor calibration issue, and doesn't appear to be a color space mismatch. I've saved as Adobe RGB and as sRGB, and that doesn't seem to influence the problem.

                      David - I believe I've tried adding the "Done" step as you suggest, but because I'm not sure, I'll give that a shot. Unfortunately, I won't be able to try that until tomorrow afternoon as I'm traveling away from my studio right now.

                      Thanks all for your thoughts and suggestions. I agree, this doesn't make sense, but it's what's happening. I'll try adding David's step, but in the meantime, other suggestions welcome.

                      Greg
                      • 8. Re: ACR to Jpg discards file corrections
                        rasworth Level 1
                        I did the experiment, opened three raw files in ACR, made a significant edit to each, then saved as jpegs from ACR. Worked fine, not only included ACR edits but converted to selected colorspace, in my case ProPhoto. I opened the jpegs in PhotoShop, honoring the embedded profile, all images showed the edit.

                        However, if I tried to open the new jpegs with a non-color managed viewer, such as Internet Explorer, then the images looked very dull and unedited, viewing app IE was not color managed.

                        Richard Southworth
                        • 9. Re: ACR to Jpg discards file corrections
                          Level 1
                          Thanks, Richard. That's where I'm stumped. I've done exactly what you've done, and doesn't really matter whether it's a color managed or non-color managed viewer, the edits made in ACR don't take. In addition, if I save to PSD the edits take, but when I convert that PSD to jpg, I lose the edits.

                          It feels like a defective version of Bridge. I've tried removing and reinstalling, I've updated to the latest version, I've purged the cache, and still have the same problem.

                          Greg
                          • 10. Re: ACR to Jpg discards file corrections
                            JimHess-8IPblY Level 3
                            Greg,

                            Have you tried Dr. Brown's image processor? One of the options is to include the color profile in the converted image. It works with my images regardless of what I am converting from or converting to. It wouldn't hurt to give it a try.
                            • 11. Re: ACR to Jpg discards file corrections
                              rasworth Level 1
                              Greg,

                              I wouldn't think it's a Bridge issue, the save occurs within ACR. If you open a raw file in PS, so that ACR is hosted by PS, should do the same thing.

                              Just to be sure, we are talking about using the "Save Image" Button at the bottom left of the ACR window?

                              Richard Southworth
                              • 12. Re: ACR to Jpg discards file corrections
                                John_Cornicello_Photo Level 2
                                I just want to make sure I'm following along correctly, and I'm going to try a radical adjustment in raw so the edits should be immediatlely noticeable. I'm typing this up as I go through the steps...

                                1. go to Bridge and select a batch of raw files.
                                For my test I'm selecting 4 .CR2 files from a Canon camera (I don't have a Nikon to test with)

                                2. Open the four files in Camera Raw 4.4.1

                                3. Click on Select All

                                4. Set the color temp to 2300 to make them radically blue (these were daylight/outdoor images)

                                5. Click on Save Images in the lower left corner of Camera Raw

                                6. Select save in New Location and select a folder.

                                7. Under File Naming, leave the document name at the default. Set file extension to .jpg.

                                8. under Format select JPG and a quality level (I'm selecting eight).

                                9. Click Save

                                Spinning arrows next to the save images button show the progress.

                                When done I click Cancel so I don't save the color temp setting.

                                10. Go back to bridge and to the folder I saved the JPGs in.

                                The JPGs are all blue (as expected). Opening them shows them blue, too.

                                I repeated the above, but in step #4 I set the Saturation to -100 instead of changing the color temp so the images are b&w.

                                Again, all the jpg files are b&w.
                                • 13. Re: ACR to Jpg discards file corrections
                                  JimHess-8IPblY Level 3
                                  Just as strange as the problem with ACR is the fact that he says PSD->JPEG conversions lose the changes too.
                                  • 14. Re: ACR to Jpg discards file corrections
                                    John_Cornicello_Photo Level 2
                                    Does it happen if you just process one file? Or only when processing multiple files? If it happens with one, could you put a sample raw file on a web page or a file sharing site so one of us could try a test with that file?
                                    • 15. Re: ACR to Jpg discards file corrections
                                      John_Cornicello_Photo Level 2
                                      I repeated the test with Bridge completely out of the picture. Closed bridge, went into Photoshop > File > Open and ctl-clicked on 4 raw files to open them together in Camera Raw. And went through the above again, converting to black and white. All appear to have processed correctly.
                                      • 16. Re: ACR to Jpg discards file corrections
                                        Dennis 1111 Level 2
                                        Hi guys. I was trying to help Greg with this over on Fred Miranda's site and ended up as stumped as he was. I ended up recommending he post here and see what the folks here could come up with.

                                        Here is a link to the dialogue over on FM:

                                        http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/636064

                                        Want a real head-scratcher? He says that he can take a TIFF file (that he succesfully created with ACR and HAS the edits applied correctly) and when he converts THAT to Jpeg, the colors revert back to the original. ?!?!?

                                        I almost wonder if he is looking at the same Jpeg, maybe one he shot as Raw+Jpeg, instead of the "new" one. I think you guys are on the right track in trying to pin him down to a particular chain of actions to limit the variables and make sure he is hitting the buttons we think he is.
                                        • 17. Re: ACR to Jpg discards file corrections
                                          Ramón G Castañeda Level 4
                                          My post was misread and misinterpreted, perhaps because I misconstrued the OP.

                                          What I wrote (or tried to write, anyway) was that JPEGs that have had adjustments applied to them and have not been opened in Photoshop, will not retain the adjustments if batch-opened bypassing ACR.

                                          What I seem to be reading now points to a seriously messed up system.

                                          So, please disregard my post in this thread. :/
                                          • 18. Re: ACR to Jpg discards file corrections
                                            Ramón G Castañeda Level 4
                                            Dennis S,

                                            > almost wonder if he is looking at the same Jpeg, maybe one he shot as Raw+Jpeg, instead of the "new" one.

                                            That would make sense for RAW+JPEG shots, but not for TIFFs, as you point out.
                                            • 19. Re: ACR to Jpg discards file corrections
                                              Level 1
                                              All-
                                              Thank you for your wealth of suggestions. I apologize for being unresponsive this afternoon - I'm attending a conference out of town. I'll be back on my photo computer tomorrow around noon and will try to take your suggestions in order and see if there is some resolution there.

                                              Greg Smith
                                              • 20. Re: ACR to Jpg discards file corrections
                                                Level 1
                                                Richard,
                                                Yes, we are talking about the save image button in the lower left of the ACR window.

                                                Greg
                                                • 21. Re: ACR to Jpg discards file corrections
                                                  Level 1
                                                  John,
                                                  Thank you. I repeated the same test that you spelled out, step for step, changing the white balance to 2300 to produce a radically blue file. When I went back to bridge and opened the jpg files, they are the same blue color as they appeared in their RAW file format in bridge prior to saving. When I go to another application, like the Windows Picture viewer, to view the jpgs, they are the same blue color. So across applications, the change has stayed consistent.

                                                  However, here's the challenge I'm finding.

                                                  If I follow your same process on a daytime shot of a baseball player, for instance, and make a less radical correction to exposure (say, -.75), add some fill (+9), adjust the blacks (+8) and set the brightness at +44, the RAW file I produce is slightly darker, the highlights more distinct, and the player's eyes underneath his helmet more visible. When I save that RAW file as a jpg using your steps, and then return to bridge to view the jpg, the color is consistent with what appeared in the RAW file, but when I go to any other application than bridge, the jpg file has reverted to its original capture condition sans edits.

                                                  Why is there this difference - a radical color change to the file is saved, while a more minor adjustment is discarded for some reason? What am I missing here?

                                                  Someone suggested providing a file that could be worked on by others here. Let me know where or how would make sense to post that and I'll do so. I'm appreciating all your help.

                                                  Also, someone speculated this was a case of shooting RAW+jpg. I shoot only RAW and then process the RAW files to the computer.

                                                  Greg
                                                  • 22. Re: ACR to Jpg discards file corrections
                                                    Dennis 1111 Level 2
                                                    > When I save that RAW file as a jpg using your steps, and then return to bridge to view the jpg, the color is consistent with what appeared in the RAW file, but when I go to any other application than bridge, the jpg file has reverted to its original capture condition sans edits.

                                                    Greg,

                                                    When you say "any other application than bridge", what application exactly?
                                                    Is that application fully color-managed?
                                                    Are you sure "the jpg file has reverted to its original capture condition sans edits" or does it just look a little different in those "other applications" than it does in an Adobe app? (one way to check this would be to generate a Jpeg from ACR with no changes and compare it in the "other app" alongside the Jpeg with changes)

                                                    I have come full-circle now and suspect that you are seeing a color-managed vs. non-color-managed situation or you are writing the Jpeg with a profile (AdobeRGB, for example) that is not supported by the non-Adobe app.
                                                    • 23. Re: ACR to Jpg discards file corrections
                                                      JimHess-8IPblY Level 3
                                                      Greg,

                                                      I haven't gone back and read all of the previous messages, but it seems to me that this is the first time you have clarified that it is a different application that is not displaying the appropriate color. This sounds to me like a color profile problem. In my workflow I always work in Photoshop/ACR in the ProPhoto color space. But when I am through with all of my editing I always convert the profile to sRGB because it is the most universal color space. Do not use the Assign Color Profile option because that will change all of the colors. But if you use the Convert to Profile option Photoshop will convert the colors to the narrower sRGB color space, and will match them to the original as closely as possible.

                                                      There are many applications that are not color profile aware. Almost without exception these applications are expecting images in the sRGB color space. So give this conversion to try and see if that fixes the problem.
                                                      • 24. Re: ACR to Jpg discards file corrections
                                                        Level 1
                                                        Jim and Dennis,

                                                        I don't doubt that this is color management related. My goal very simply is this - when I'm done processing an image for uploading to my web site, I want to have the confidence that the file will appear on the web site as it appeared to me in Bridge just before I saved it.

                                                        I don't know if I altered a color setting, or if something changed when I installed the CS3 version of Bridge and PS, but images that I thought were purple changed to blue when they were posted to the web or when they were sent through email.

                                                        That didn't used to happen to me, so something is different. I shoot in RAW and shoot in Adobe RGB. My process has been to open the files in Camera RAW. Adjust white balance if necessary, adjust levels, do some cropping, select all, and click on the "Save Images" button in the lower left corner of camera RAW. I have saved those files as Jpgs using the document name and into a new folder.

                                                        Until recently, I was able to view those jpg images either as thumbnails on the desktop, or using Windows Picture Viewer, Quicktime Picture Viewer, Microsoft Office picture viewer, Photoshop, PhotoImpact or Microsoft Powerpoint, and the images looked the same no matter what application. My purples stayed purple, in other words.

                                                        But now, after I click save, the purples I thought I created are blue. And it is only in ACR that they appear purple. In PS they are blue. If color management is my issue, which I agree makes sense, then I think either in ACR or Photoshop I must not have a setting establshed correctly. And I may need a step by step walk through to find it as admittedly I've only 10 months using Photoshop.

                                                        Everyone here has been great about helping me work through this so let me also say a big thank you. But it's really because this was all working for me well, and now doesn't seem to be, that I'm perplexed. I've read through other postings in the forum that sound similar to mine, but haven't been able to implement suggestions and have them solve my issues.

                                                        Jim, I've not worked in ProPhoto before, but will give that a shot to see how that goes. Maybe that'll prove to be the answer.

                                                        Where I want to finish up from my editing in ACR, is to be able to view my processed images before uploading and know with confidence that they'll appear on the web as I intend. What process gets me there, and what viewing application can I use to know that what I see is what everyone will see?

                                                        I'm hoping to resolve this this weekend and will be online a fair amount. any additional suggestions are most welcome.
                                                        • 25. Re: ACR to Jpg discards file corrections
                                                          Level 1
                                                          I don't have a sharing site to post this, but want to have someone look at it.

                                                          I imported a photo from Bridge to Photoshop that shows the purples I see when I save the image. I opened the color settings dialog. Then took a screen shot of that photoshop page showing the color image and the color settings. Then I saved a jpg from photoshop of that image, not from ACR.

                                                          I imported that screen shot into MS Word, then also imported the corresponding Jpg. Photoshop images shows purple, Jpg imported into word, does not.

                                                          If you have an email or a site where I can put this, let me know and I'll do so as that might help take this to the next step.

                                                          Greg
                                                          • 26. Re: ACR to Jpg discards file corrections
                                                            Dennis 1111 Level 2
                                                            Greg,

                                                            When you create the Jpeg directly from ACR using "Save Image", ACR will create the Jpeg using the colorspace you have selected in ACR in Workflow Options (you get there with the hyperlink-like link at the bottom of the ACR window).

                                                            When you followed John's steps, what colorspace was selected when you created the Jpeg? AdobeRGB?

                                                            If so, only color-managed applications are going to read the AdobeRGB profile embedded in the Jpeg and interpret it correctly. Most Windows apps will not detect and interpret AdobeRGB and that includes Internet Explorer.

                                                            Please verify this carefully as it could very well be the cause of your problems. It is possible that the reason things changed is that before you were writing Jpegs in sRGB and now you are writing them in AdobeRGB or some other colorspace.

                                                            If that's not it, have you re-calibrated/profiled your monitor recently?
                                                            • 27. Re: ACR to Jpg discards file corrections
                                                              Level 1
                                                              Dennis,

                                                              When I have created the jpg directly from the ACR using "Save Image" i have tried both - I've done it changing the hyperlink setting to sRGB, and I've done it using AdobeRGB. It has not seemed to make a difference. whether I save them in sRGB or in AdobeRGB, I don't seem to be producing images with the colors I've intended.

                                                              Also yes, recalibrated the monitor as soon as I noticed this was a problem and I typically recalibrate monthly.

                                                              Greg
                                                              • 28. Re: ACR to Jpg discards file corrections
                                                                Dennis 1111 Level 2
                                                                OK but you verfied that when you create a Jpeg using John's steps the Jpeg looks fine when using Adobe apps, correct?

                                                                When you use John's steps and write the Jpeg in sRGB, the Jpeg looks OK in Adobe apps but still looks funky in non-Adobe apps?

                                                                If the answer to both of the above is Yes, then the difference may by due to your monitor and possibly the calibration/profiling settings you are using.

                                                                Even when you are absolutely sure that everything is in the sRGB colorspace, there can still be visible differences between a fully color-managed application like PS and a non-color-managed application like IE. Sometimes you can reduce this variance by using Native Gamma and Native White Point when you calibrate/profile your monitor.

                                                                If you are depending on your calibration/profiling software to adjust the display to a particular Gamma and White Point, this can increase the differences between how the image looks in the color- and non-color-managed application.
                                                                • 29. Re: ACR to Jpg discards file corrections
                                                                  Dennis 1111 Level 2
                                                                  By the way, you should be able to host your Jpeg for free on www.flickr.com, imageshack.us, or photobucket.com.
                                                                  • 30. Re: ACR to Jpg discards file corrections
                                                                    JimHess-8IPblY Level 3
                                                                    Switching to ProPhoto by itself isn't going to solve the problem. In fact, it will probably only make things worse. I think what you need to do is a look at your Photoshop commerce settings and get those set properly. You can set your working color space, and you can tell Photoshop what to do when it encounters a different color space. I have mine set to preserve the embedded profile. It works for me, but you will have to decide what works best for you.

                                                                    I suspect what has happened is that somewhere along the way those color settings have been changed. You are probably aware of this but it is under Edit/Color Settings.
                                                                    • 31. Re: ACR to Jpg discards file corrections
                                                                      Level 1
                                                                      "Photoshop commerce settings"

                                                                      I didn't know that Photoshop had any COMMERCE settings? Jeeesh, can I set mine to MILLIONAIRE?

                                                                      Did you perhaps mean COLOR settings?

                                                                      :~)
                                                                      • 32. Re: ACR to Jpg discards file corrections
                                                                        JimHess-8IPblY Level 3
                                                                        I use one of these "you talk, it types" programs because I am such a slow typist. And I didn't proofread the message very well. Of course I meant "color settings". I'm embarrassed, and I apologize.
                                                                        • 33. Re: ACR to Jpg discards file corrections
                                                                          Level 1
                                                                          :~)

                                                                          Not a problem...too bad there isn't a "Photoshop commerce setting"...
                                                                          • 34. Re: ACR to Jpg discards file corrections
                                                                            Omke Oudeman Level 5
                                                                            >too bad there isn't a "Photoshop commerce setting"...

                                                                            You mean the version "You look, it generates cash..." :-)

                                                                            Hope it does a better job then Jim's program but by the look of Jim's post 32 he raised his voice and looked angry, it now does a perfect job!

                                                                            Hope you can this with the commerce setting too Jim ;-)
                                                                            • 35. Re: ACR to Jpg discards file corrections
                                                                              Edward McCain Level 1
                                                                              I am having the same exact problem using ACR 4.4.1 on a Mac Quad-Core running OS 10.5.2 and using cr2 RAW files from my Canon EOS 1 Ds Mk II. I make the corrections in ACR and then us the "Save Image..." button at lower left corner of ACR. If I save the images as JPEGs, the corrections will be ignored. I can save them as TIFF or PSD and then save them as JPEGS, but to me, this just creates massive space problems when I just need JPEGs. Anyone come up with a fix for this?

                                                                              Edward McCain
                                                                              www.mccainphoto.com
                                                                              Tucson, AZ
                                                                              • 36. Re: ACR to Jpg discards file corrections
                                                                                Level 1
                                                                                Gsmith

                                                                                I would try some "radical" adjustment to the RAW file in ACR before saving it as jpeg. Maybe very very over exposure. Or radical WB adjust. Then view the jpeg.

                                                                                If these adjustments show up in the jpeg, then maybe you have a color space problem like Jim was referring to.

                                                                                Ed
                                                                                • 37. Re: ACR to Jpg discards file corrections
                                                                                  Ramón G Castañeda Level 4
                                                                                  If you just use the Save button in ACR, the adjustments to a JPEG file are saved to the xmp sidecar file as metadata only.

                                                                                  To actually apply the adjustments to a JPEG, you MUST open the file in ACR, bring it into Photoshop and save it there. A batch process presumably bypasses ACR and processes the JPEG without being able to apply the ACR adjustments.
                                                                                  • 38. Re: ACR to Jpg discards file corrections
                                                                                    John_Cornicello_Photo Level 2
                                                                                    This does not hold true to my experience with files in Camera Raw.

                                                                                    I have taken a raw file (.cr2), opened it in Camera Raw (both hosted by Photoshop and hosted by Bridge), dragged the saturation down to -100 (monochrome), clicked on the Save Image button, selected to save as JPG in the same folder, and the image is converted to black and white. It shows as b&w in Bridge and also if I open the file in Firefox (to test to see if Bridge might have been reading the sidecar).

                                                                                    I've repeated the above opening a JPG file in Camera Raw, making the same adjustments, and saving as a new JPG.

                                                                                    Both seem to take the adjusment and apply it to the new saved JPG without having to go through Photoshop.
                                                                                    • 39. Re: ACR to Jpg discards file corrections
                                                                                      Ramón G Castañeda Level 4
                                                                                      John,

                                                                                      Please read my post again.

                                                                                      You talk about RAW files. I'm talking about opening JPEGs in Camera Raw, not raw files. I'm pretty sure I'm right. The thumbnail and the preview may reflect the adjustments, but if you re-open the JPEG bypassing ACR alltogether , the adjustments will NOT be applied.

                                                                                      Repeat: bypassing ACR alltogether
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