26 Replies Latest reply on Jun 15, 2008 6:17 PM by (Hector_A._Parayuelos)

    Camera Raw 4.4.1 has bug with Canon 40D raw files

      I shoot with the Canon 20D, 30D, 40D, 1DMII, and the Rebel XTI. The Raw processor is showing an anomaly only with the 40D files. When I load raw images, and when the image is displayed, it is shown at one setting. Then in 3 seconds, its updated again at about 1/2 stop brighter. Each time I click on another image on the left column, same thing. The new image is displayed, then 3 seconds later, updated at about 1/2 stop brighter. The histogram reflects the changes showing the data moving to the right. This only happens with the 40D raw files. Obviously Camera Raw is making two passes on the data.

      Whats up with that?

      It happens regardless if "Auto" or "Default" is selected. I use "default" as a norm, never letting PS do an auto correction.

      This is unacceptable because it changes our modifications. We can't afford to wait 3 seconds per photo for ACR when there's 15k images to work through. This has got to stop.

      ...Doug
        • 1. Re: Camera Raw 4.4.1 has bug with Canon 40D raw files
          Level 1
          >This only happens with the 40D raw files. Obviously Camera Raw is making two passes on the data.

          If the actual Camera Raw settings are being changed, then it's doing so because you've altered the Camera Raw Default for that camera...open an image and double check that when selecting Camera Raw Default, the changes occur, if so then you or somebody with access to your computer have changed the Defaults...

          Go to the main Camera Raw flyout menu and select "Reset Camera Raw Defaults" which will change the defaults back to what they were before being altered...
          • 2. Re: Camera Raw 4.4.1 has bug with Canon 40D raw files
            Level 1
            Didn't work.

            Loaded 350 raw images from one media card folder into ACR 4.4.1, click on "Select All" to select the whole set. Then executed, "Reset Camera Raw Defaults" on the flyout, then clicked on the next image on the left hand side. After 3 seconds, another kick up of 1/2 stop.

            Note: No changes have been made to these images. This is the first time loading into PS ACR.

            Next suggestion?

            ...Doug
            • 3. Re: Camera Raw 4.4.1 has bug with Canon 40D raw files
              Level 1
              I did go back and test this with 1DMII raw images. Seems the 3 second update does happen there, but no 1/2 stop kick up in brightness. I see the histogram tweak some, but the peaks all stay aligned. 40D histogram peaks actually shift to the right by a measurable amount. Doesn't happen on 30D or 20D raw images.

              ..Doug
              • 4. Re: Camera Raw 4.4.1 has bug with Canon 40D raw files
                Thomas Knoll Level 2
                Purge the Camera Raw cache and the problem will go away.
                • 5. Re: Camera Raw 4.4.1 has bug with Canon 40D raw files
                  Level 1
                  Nope, same thing.

                  Purged the cache.

                  Loaded 153 raw images.

                  3 seconds, 1/2 stop up...

                  clicked on the next image,

                  3 seconds, 1/2 stop up...

                  again..

                  and again..

                  no fix there..

                  another suggestion?

                  ..Doug
                  • 6. Re: Camera Raw 4.4.1 has bug with Canon 40D raw files
                    Level 1
                    Do you guys work at adobe? I'm literally right down the street and can bring the machine in for you to look at.

                    ..Doug
                    • 7. Re: Camera Raw 4.4.1 has bug with Canon 40D raw files
                      Level 1
                      After the image comes up brighter, what EXACTLY are the Camera Raw settings in Basic and any other panels? Are all the other panels set to the regular defaults?

                      And to be accurate, I said load ONE image from your 40D (not a ton of them) and double check WHAT THE SETTINGS WERE and WHAT HAPPENS if you reset the Camera Raw defaults...

                      And no, house calls wouldn't work...
                      • 8. Re: Camera Raw 4.4.1 has bug with Canon 40D raw files
                        Panoholic Level 2
                        BaselineExposure for the 40D has been changed to 0.24 in 4.4.1 from 0 in earlier versions.
                        • 9. Re: Camera Raw 4.4.1 has bug with Canon 40D raw files
                          Ramón G Castañeda Level 4
                          Doug,

                          Just to make sure, did you purge the Camera Raw cache? (NOT the Bridge Cache.)
                          • 10. Re: Camera Raw 4.4.1 has bug with Canon 40D raw files
                            Thomas Knoll Level 2
                            Doug: Purge the Camera Raw cache, NOT the Bridge cache.
                            • 11. Re: Camera Raw 4.4.1 has bug with Canon 40D raw files
                              Level 1
                              -------------------
                              >After the image comes up brighter, what EXACTLY are the
                              >Camera Raw settings in Basic and any other panels?

                              All settings are camera defaults.

                              -------------------
                              >Are all the other panels set to the regular defaults?

                              Yes.

                              -------------------
                              >And to be accurate, I said load ONE image from your 40D
                              >(not a ton of them) and double check WHAT THE SETTINGS WERE
                              >and WHAT HAPPENS if you reset the Camera Raw defaults...

                              CHeck out this video. I recorded loading one raw image into ACR and show
                              the histogram shifting.

                              www. bayareaeventphotography. com /users/bayareaeventphotography/docs/images/40dacr441.3g2

                              You'll have to cut/paste the URL, and remove the spaces. Did this to avoid any forum filters...

                              --------------------
                              >Just to make sure, did you purge the Camera Raw cache? (NOT the Bridge Cache.)

                              Yes, the camera raw cache was flushed.

                              I even opened a windows explorer window in the the Camera Raw cache folder, then clicked "Purge Cache", and watched the files disappear. So, yes, the cache has been purged.

                              ---------------------
                              >And no, house calls wouldn't work...

                              Bummer, would be very helpful. Had one adobe tech make a housecall once few months ago, that could work too...

                              ---------------------
                              >BaselineExposure for the 40D has been changed to 0.24 in 4.4.1 from 0 in earlier versions.

                              Is this a variable in the ACR code and indicating the problem?

                              ...Doug
                              • 12. Re: Camera Raw 4.4.1 has bug with Canon 40D raw files
                                Thomas Knoll Level 2
                                The problem in your video looks EXACTLY like a known bug that is caused by using Camera Raw cache entries generated by an older version of Camera Raw when updating to Camera Raw 4.4.1, with raw files from the Canon 40D only.

                                Purging the Camera Raw cache always clears up this issue (unless you keep switching back to older versions of Camera Raw and generating more entries in the Camera Raw cache).

                                So, just to humor me, and you create a video of you purging the Camera Raw cache, and then opening a 40D image?
                                • 13. Re: Camera Raw 4.4.1 has bug with Canon 40D raw files
                                  Panoholic Level 2
                                  > Is this a variable in the ACR code and indicating the problem?

                                  It is an automatic "exposure" adjustment (increasing by 0.24 EV), without any explicite indication, i.e. you don't see it on the slider. Consequently, all 40D images appear 1/4 EV brighter with this version than with the former versions.

                                  In other words, if you want to work with the original exposure, you have to start out with -0.25 EV.

                                  Exceptions: ISO 100 remains unchanged, and the 2/3 stop ISOs (160, 320, etc.) get *reduced* by 0.11 EV. However, the 1/3 and 2/3 ISO steps are for JPEG shooters anyway.

                                  Add 1 EV with HTP On. For example at ISO 800, HTP On, the automatic adjustment will be +1.24 EV. (Note: this +1 EV is not new in 4.4.1.)

                                  On the other hand, a former error has been corrected with 4.4.1: the previous versions caused clipping indication due to incorrect assumption of the saturation levels; this is now corrected.

                                  See http://www.adobeforums.com/webx/.3c055802

                                  This automatic "exposure adjustment" is nonsensical, but it is easier to deal with than the incorrect clipping levels were.
                                  • 14. Re: Camera Raw 4.4.1 has bug with Canon 40D raw files
                                    Level 1
                                    Hi Thomas

                                    Here's the video clip showing the cache being cleard, then the problem showing up on loading camera raw images:

                                    www. bayareaeventphotography. com/users/bayareaeventphotography/docs/images/40dacr441.v2.mov

                                    Again, cut, paste, and take the spaces out of the URL.

                                    * * * Warning * * *
                                    The movie is 90mb, so will take a while to download.

                                    What is this msg above about the 40D being 1/4EV brighter in this version? Guys, I have 15165 raw images from last week to process. This is a big time problem that will add 3 seconds of time to each of these images. This can't happen. I need a fix.

                                    ...Doug
                                    • 15. Re: Camera Raw 4.4.1 has bug with Canon 40D raw files
                                      Thomas Knoll Level 2
                                      OK, I've finally tracked down the root cause of the brightness jump while loading. It will be fixed in the next dot release.

                                      The message about the required exposure values changing by 1/4EV is wrong, BTW. There where two changes compensating changes, so a given exposure slider setting will resulting in the same appearance as previous versions.
                                      • 16. Re: Camera Raw 4.4.1 has bug with Canon 40D raw files
                                        Panoholic Level 2
                                        > There where two changes compensating changes, so a given exposure slider setting will resulting in the same appearance as previous versions

                                        Yes, that's just the problem. The original processing was incorrect, and now the correction of the saturation levels is mitigated by the exposure adjustment. The result is, that an ISO 200, 400, 800 and 1600 image appears brighter than is should be.
                                        • 17. Re: Camera Raw 4.4.1 has bug with Canon 40D raw files
                                          Level 1
                                          Thomas, I have a question.

                                          When the image bumps up in brightness, is that sticky, to be applied when the JPG is generated? Or is it just visible on the screen during ACR editing?

                                          ...Doug
                                          • 18. Re: Camera Raw 4.4.1 has bug with Canon 40D raw files
                                            Thomas Knoll Level 2
                                            The image is correct after it is fully loaded, and will match how it will look when opened in Photoshop.
                                            • 19. Re: Camera Raw 4.4.1 has bug with Canon 40D raw files
                                              I have also noticed that every time I open my RAW images up in Camera Raw, there is a color shift from the color I see on my display on the back of the camera, and from when it is opened in Bridge or previewed in Bridge, it will change. I have a Canon 40D, CS3, and have an adjusted the picture style in the camera itself (saturation is low).
                                              Also, I have the latest RAW plugin.
                                              :-)
                                              Help!
                                              • 20. Re: Camera Raw 4.4.1 has bug with Canon 40D raw files
                                                Ramón G Castañeda Level 4
                                                Carie,

                                                This has been covered and explained here ad nauseam. Please read existing threads. The titles should be enough to steer you in the right direction.

                                                For instance:

                                                Ramón G Castañeda, "Camera Raw Loses Saturation, Especially Reds" #3, 21 Nov 2007 8:53 pm

                                                Bottom line, ACR is not designed to emulate the Canon (or Nikon) software results.
                                                • 21. Re: Camera Raw 4.4.1 has bug with Canon 40D raw files
                                                  Level 1
                                                  That is not my problem Ramon. I intentionally De-saturate in camera and want CS3 to keep it like I have it in camera and NOT change ANYTHING.
                                                  • 22. Re: Camera Raw 4.4.1 has bug with Canon 40D raw files
                                                    Dennis 1111 Level 2
                                                    Carie,

                                                    The first problem is that ACR MUST re-create its own version of the raw file. Raw files always must be interpreted by the raw processor. You are comparing the camera's interpretation against ACR's version. They are never going to match exactly. You can get somewhat close by creating a "New Camera Raw Default" that adjusts the ACR parameters to come close to the Canon version. Turning Auto-tone adjustments off also helps.

                                                    Secondly, about the only in-camera parameter that ACR uses is white balance. It ignores everything else (sharpness, saturation, tint, picture styles, etc.). If you want a raw processor that checks those other in-camera settings, you will need to use Canon's DPP software. The only other alternative is create various pre-sets in ACR that roughly correspond to the different in-camera settings you like to use. You will have to apply those pre-sets manually though since ACR ignores the in-camera parameters.
                                                    • 23. Re: Camera Raw 4.4.1 has bug with Canon 40D raw files
                                                      Doug, did you found the solution?
                                                      Convert the CR2 files to dng files with the Adobe DNG Converter first. Then ACR works well.
                                                      • 24. Re: Camera Raw 4.4.1 has bug with Canon 40D raw files
                                                        Ramón G Castañeda Level 4
                                                        >Obviously Camera Raw is making two passes on the data.

                                                        Nope.

                                                        Bridge shows you first an approximation based on the JPEG preview embedded in the file by your camera while ACR builds a High Quality preview from the RAW image.
                                                        • 25. Re: Camera Raw 4.4.1 has bug with Canon 40D raw files
                                                          Level 1
                                                          I've been having a similar situation to the two mentioned here. This NEVER happened with my same exact photoshop setup, with shots taken on my 30D, but with my 40D I have it all the time.

                                                          When I go to a folder in bridge, the quick thumbnails thumbnails load, and look accurate against the image in the camera, and the raw image when opened in Picassa (i downloaded to check, and make sure this wasn't just a case of "end result photo looks diff than in camera).

                                                          When I click the thumbnail, the "high quality thumbnail" loads, and has what I deem to be incorrect color informatiom. If I open the file, into Camera Raw/Photoshop, the incorrect color version loads.

                                                          This is not a case of "the software interprets the raw files differently" from what I can tell, because I have shot the same type of intensely colored shots at a local music club (due to their lighting and my use of available light, many photos have a strong color cast) when I had my 30d, and had NO issue with bridge changing the color. With the shots taken on my 40D, the color completely shifts and saturates at a different degree than how I shot it.

                                                          It is not a matter of white balance, because none of the white balance settings bring the photo back to how it was shot. The closest thing I do to come close bringing the photo back to its original color info, is the "Camera Calibration" section in CR. But even with that, it's a hit or miss...it doesn't always work.

                                                          Here is an example of the shift:
                                                          http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3016/2581978859_29646652dd_o.jpg
                                                          Here is another example..this time it's less of a color shift, and more of an exposure shift (that might be related to color):
                                                          http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3132/2582806522_4a727ca066_o.jpg
                                                          • 26. Re: Camera Raw 4.4.1 has bug with Canon 40D raw files
                                                            Level 1
                                                            Oh, and I forgot to mention, that the original issue listed in this post (the 3 second brightening, after opening in ACR) is also happening. I don't know if the issues are related or not.

                                                            (I'm using CS3 on a Vista computer, with all the updates installed on both Vista and CS.)