19 Replies Latest reply on Jul 30, 2008 8:48 AM by (David_G_Rosser)

    DNG Profile Editor (& new camera profiles)

    Level 1
      Anybody who thinks Camera Raw can't pretty much nail the colors of the camera makers colors should check out http://labs.adobe.com/wiki/index.php/DNG_Profiles

      You'll need Camera Raw 4.5 or Lightroom 2.0 to use the profiles...
        • 1. Re: DNG Profile Editor (& new camera profiles)
          Ramón G Castañeda Level 4
          Wow! This adds a whole new dimension to Camera Raw.

          It will take some time to digest, but the Camera Raw team has done a fantastic job with the documentation so far.

          Particularly encouraging is the fact that this is being introduced with ACR 4.5 rather than waiting for CS4.

          One prediction anyone can make already is that the Camera Raw team and other forum contributors are going to be very busy fielding questions from tomorrow on and into the foreseeable future. :D
          • 2. Re: DNG Profile Editor (& new camera profiles)
            Thank's a lot, I no longer have to become desperate, when LR makes a hash of my D200's colours. "Camera standard beta profile" and I'm almost there. Fantastic!

            Now it would be great if it was possible to take advantage of the ColorChecker SG target. And if there was a function to automatically create profiles for simulating different brand's colours and tones (e.g. based on their original JPEG Rendition) - or even better, someone do this for me. I want Fuji S5 or Olympus E-1 colours for my trusty D200 (or the nice way the SD-14 handles super-saturated stuff). :)

            Kind regards,
            Martin
            • 3. Re: DNG Profile Editor (& new camera profiles)
              MadManChan2000 Adobe Employee
              Martin, we're hoping a community will develop around folks using the DNG Profile Editor to create the 'looks' or 'visual styles' they want and then share such profiles. This will take some time of course.
              • 4. Re: DNG Profile Editor (& new camera profiles)
                Level 1
                >then share such profiles

                Or sell them :~)

                (not EVERYTHING about capitalism is bad ya know)
                • 5. Re: DNG Profile Editor (& new camera profiles)
                  The Profile Editor is just brilliant!
                  I have one problem though... many of my photos of the color chart are overexposed?! I have color charts shooting with Nikon D3, D300, D700... many of them the editor think is overexposed. My Canon ones are ok (1Ds MKIII/1DMKIII/5D), but the Nikon ones are all overexposed....? Shot with Matrix in Av mode.
                  • 6. Re: DNG Profile Editor (& new camera profiles)
                    Level 1
                    Maybe this is because of the raised midtones in the response curves of these 3 cameras.

                    @Jeff: If I can have a "simulator profile" for 5 a piece, I won't hesitate! :)
                    • 7. Re: DNG Profile Editor (& new camera profiles)
                      Level 1
                      Is there anyway for me to use these overexposed shots without reshooting them?
                      • 8. Re: DNG Profile Editor (& new camera profiles)
                        MadManChan2000 Adobe Employee
                        Unfortunately no. You'll need to reshoot the targets. My suggestion is to bracket your exposure when shooting the targets.
                        • 9. Re: DNG Profile Editor (& new camera profiles)
                          Rags Gardner
                          All,

                          This looks fantastic. Congratulations Adobe team.

                          I have not used it yet, but I will sometime soon. I will be happy to see the calibration scripts depreciated. I read through the tutorials, very impressive. But I have a few questions I hope someone here can answer. First, I do not currently use DNG and there is no need to debate this.

                          It does look like the new profiles can be employed with CS3 and ACR 4.5, without DNG. But to edit the profiles it seems that the DNG tool is absolutely required. Is this correct?

                          It also appears that the DNG Profile Editor can only open a DNG CC24 target image. So a Nikon, Canon, or other image first has to be converted. Is this correct?

                          I am happy to install and use DNG for profile editing. I would just like to know if it is absolutely necessary.

                          Cheers, Rags :-)
                          • 10. Re: DNG Profile Editor (& new camera profiles)
                            Thomas Knoll Level 2
                            You can save DNG files directly out of Camera Raw by pressing the save button. So if you have Camera Raw 4.5 installed, you don't need to install anything else.
                            • 11. Re: DNG Profile Editor (& new camera profiles)
                              Panoholic Level 2
                              > I have one problem though... many of my photos of the color chart are overexposed?!

                              Are you sure they are overexposed? The option Show Clipping does not indicate factual overexposure. Just like in ACR, the clipping depends on the WB (in ACR it also depends on the contrast, brightness, etc.)

                              If you pick WB on different patches, different areas appear clipped. The only way I know of to verify if you can use an area is trying to pick WB on it. If is is truly overexposed (pixel saturation occured), you receive a message about it.
                              • 12. Re: DNG Profile Editor (& new camera profiles)
                                Rags Gardner Level 1
                                OK,

                                Call me stupid. I updated CS3 to ACR 4.5 (normal update, no beta download). I did a quick test with a Nikon D3 image. For anyone that cares, my existing calibration scripts still run fine. There was a very minor settings change, leading to a very minor numeric improvement. OK so far.

                                But the Camera Calibration tab did not show any new profiles (just 4.3 or 4.4). It did confirm the new level and the clarity range did change. So I will assume that the new profiles are not in the basic 4.5 update. Ill install them and the DNG Profile Editor later.

                                I converted the image to DNG but still no menu changes. I did notice that the bridge did not recognize the DNG image preview until I purged folder cache. This surprised me because it was a new file. Just FYI. For anyone that cares, the DNG calibration and NEF calibration yielded exactly the same results as we should expect.

                                I guess ACR 4.5 is GA but the new profile support is still Beta?

                                Cheers, Rags :-)
                                • 13. Re: DNG Profile Editor (& new camera profiles)
                                  Level 1
                                  >So I will assume that the new profiles are not in the basic 4.5 update.

                                  Correct you actually have to DOWNLOAD the new (and still beta) DNG profiles from Lab.Adobe.com and install them...
                                  • 14. Re: DNG Profile Editor (& new camera profiles)
                                    MadManChan2000 Adobe Employee
                                    The DNG Profile Editor plays it safe with overexposure: in other words, the Chart Wizard will sometimes give you the overexposure complaint as the lighter patches approach clipping. This is similar to CR / LR not letting you do a click-WB on a patch that is too light.

                                    > But to edit the profiles it seems that the DNG tool
                                    > is absolutely required. Is this correct?

                                    Yes, the DNG Profile Editor will only open DNG raw files. It is technically possible to use the editor to edit an existing profile without opening an image, but that is useless in practice because ... well, you can't see what you're doing. ;-)

                                    > It also appears that the DNG Profile Editor can
                                    > only open a DNG CC24 target image.

                                    No, the DNG Profile Editor can open any DNG raw file. It does not have to be a shot of a 24-patch ColorChecker Chart.

                                    However, if you wish to use the Chart Wizard feature, then yes, only the 24-patch CC is supported.
                                    • 15. Re: DNG Profile Editor (& new camera profiles)
                                      Bill_Janes Level 2
                                      WS Lam wrote:

                                      >I have one problem though... many of my photos of the color chart are overexposed?! I have color charts shooting with Nikon D3, D300, D700... many of them the editor think is overexposed. My Canon ones are ok (1Ds MKIII/1DMKIII/5D), but the Nikon ones are all overexposed....? Shot with Matrix in Av mode.

                                      ACR and DNG assign a baseline exposure of +0.5 EV to Nikon D3 raw files, and I think does the same with the D300 and D700. This causes the image to appear over exposed when rendered in ACR. Many Nikon users use a default negative exposure correction of -0.5 EV in ACR to negate this baseline exposure. See the DNG specification for a description of the baseline exposure offset.

                                      I don't know how this affects the new calibration procedure.

                                      http://www.adobe.com/products/dng/pdfs/dng_spec.pdf

                                      For my observations on this baseline exposure and comments by Eric Chan and others, see this thread:

                                      http://www.adobeforums.com/webx/.59b4d54f
                                      • 16. Re: DNG Profile Editor (& new camera profiles)
                                        I would love to try the new profiles but the link on the beta web site has not been working since 08:30 BST (GMT+1) this morning. Is there a fault or is the beta only available in USA?
                                        • 17. Re: DNG Profile Editor (& new camera profiles)
                                          Level 1
                                          > Is there a fault or is the beta only available in USA?

                                          Should be available world-wide...it ain't US only. Hang in there, there's often server burps when a lot of people are trying to get the same download.
                                          • 18. Re: DNG Profile Editor (& new camera profiles)
                                            Yammer Level 4
                                            David, I'm in the UK and I found it hard but not impossible to get it all installed. I think the servers are proably snowed under with requests.

                                            I got CR 4.5 from http://www.adobe.com/downloads/
                                            I got the profiles from http://labs.adobe.com/wiki/index.php/DNG_Profiles
                                            • 19. Re: DNG Profile Editor (& new camera profiles)
                                              Level 1
                                              All things come to he who has patience. I have now downloaded the profiles. Thanks