32 Replies Latest reply on Jan 30, 2009 7:02 AM by Newsgroup_User

    div/php alignment

    Level 7
      I have a single div that is 100% width at the top of a page. On the left is
      to be html links, on the right I am going to insert the current time/date
      using php.

      Would it be easier/better to simply create another div tag to sit next to
      the original one (50/50), or would it be better to align the php in the
      original tag... and if so, how do I accomplish that latter?


        • 1. Re: div/php alignment
          Level 7
          "GPaul" <gwpaul@ptd.net> wrote in message
          news:glgdqs$24h$1@forums.macromedia.com...
          >I have a single div that is 100% width at the top of a page. On the left
          >is to be html links, on the right I am going to insert the current
          >time/date using php.
          >
          > Would it be easier/better to simply create another div tag to sit next to
          > the original one (50/50), or would it be better to align the php in the
          > original tag... and if so, how do I accomplish that latter?

          If I understand your question correctly...
          Try this:
          Wrap what you call "PHP" into a SPAN or something (within the same DIV
          containing the links) and then float that element right (give it a width
          too).
          That should do it.


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          • 2. Re: div/php alignment
            Level 7
            I did try that with this..

            <span style="align:right;"><?php
            date_default_timezone_set('America/New_York');
            echo date('l F jS, o, h:i A');?></span>

            but it did not work. And it sounds like you did understand the question
            correctly.

            Thanks for your help.


            "Thierry" <thierry@invalid.com> wrote in message
            news:glgg2t$4k5$1@forums.macromedia.com...
            > "GPaul" <gwpaul@ptd.net> wrote in message
            > news:glgdqs$24h$1@forums.macromedia.com...
            >>I have a single div that is 100% width at the top of a page. On the left
            >>is to be html links, on the right I am going to insert the current
            >>time/date using php.
            >>
            >> Would it be easier/better to simply create another div tag to sit next to
            >> the original one (50/50), or would it be better to align the php in the
            >> original tag... and if so, how do I accomplish that latter?
            >
            > If I understand your question correctly...
            > Try this:
            > Wrap what you call "PHP" into a SPAN or something (within the same DIV
            > containing the links) and then float that element right (give it a width
            > too).
            > That should do it.
            >
            >
            > --
            > Thierry | Adobe Community Expert | Articles and Tutorials ::
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            • 3. Re: div/php alignment
              Level 7
              "GPaul" <gwpaul@ptd.net> wrote in message
              news:glgg9a$4r3$1@forums.macromedia.com...
              >I did try that with this..
              >
              > <span style="align:right;"><?php
              > date_default_timezone_set('America/New_York');
              > echo date('l F jS, o, h:i A');?></span>

              That's not how we float elements.
              Back in the day, "align" was used as an attribute to "float" elements, but
              here you use it as if it was a CSS property, which it is not.

              So try this instead:

              <span><?php date_default_timezone_set('America/New_York'); echo date('l F
              jS, o, h:i A');?></span>

              Assuming this is the *only* SPAN you have in your DIV and that that DIV has
              an ID, you'd go:

              #yourDivId span {float:right;width:15em;}

              Change the EM value to whatever works better.

              > Thanks for your help.

              You're welcome



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              • 4. Re: div/php alignment
                Level 7
                Thanks much...however now I have developed an horizonal alignment problem.

                Here is the link, what did I do wrong?

                http://www.siddonslaw.com/Untitled-14.php


                "Thierry" <thierry@invalid.com> wrote in message
                news:glggn6$5c3$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                > "GPaul" <gwpaul@ptd.net> wrote in message
                > news:glgg9a$4r3$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                >>I did try that with this..
                >>
                >> <span style="align:right;"><?php
                >> date_default_timezone_set('America/New_York');
                >> echo date('l F jS, o, h:i A');?></span>
                >
                > That's not how we float elements.
                > Back in the day, "align" was used as an attribute to "float" elements, but
                > here you use it as if it was a CSS property, which it is not.
                >
                > So try this instead:
                >
                > <span><?php date_default_timezone_set('America/New_York'); echo date('l F
                > jS, o, h:i A');?></span>
                >
                > Assuming this is the *only* SPAN you have in your DIV and that that DIV
                > has an ID, you'd go:
                >
                > #yourDivId span {float:right;width:15em;}
                >
                > Change the EM value to whatever works better.
                >
                >> Thanks for your help.
                >
                > You're welcome
                >
                >
                >
                > --
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                • 5. Re: div/php alignment
                  Level 7
                  "GPaul" <gwpaul@ptd.net> wrote in message
                  news:glghpk$6j6$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                  > Thanks much...however now I have developed an horizonal alignment problem.
                  >
                  > Here is the link, what did I do wrong?

                  The SPAN needs to come *first* in the DIV

                  Also, you should get rid of the #spacer DIV and use margin on one of the
                  other container instead

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                  • 6. Re: div/php alignment
                    Level 7
                    Thanks again

                    For whatever reason, none of the margins are working. The top div has a
                    bottom margin of 30px, the spacer div is set adn 25px height with a 25px
                    bottom margin...and the spacing looks like it is about 5 px


                    "Thierry" <thierry@invalid.com> wrote in message
                    news:glgise$7pn$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                    > "GPaul" <gwpaul@ptd.net> wrote in message
                    > news:glghpk$6j6$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                    >> Thanks much...however now I have developed an horizonal alignment
                    >> problem.
                    >>
                    >> Here is the link, what did I do wrong?
                    >
                    > The SPAN needs to come *first* in the DIV
                    >
                    > Also, you should get rid of the #spacer DIV and use margin on one of the
                    > other container instead
                    >
                    > --
                    > Thierry | Adobe Community Expert | Articles and Tutorials ::
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                    • 7. Re: div/php alignment
                      Level 7
                      "GPaul" <gwpaul@ptd.net> wrote in message
                      news:glgkkv$9o2$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                      > Thanks again
                      >
                      > For whatever reason, none of the margins are working. The top div has a
                      > bottom margin of 30px, the spacer div is set adn 25px height with a 25px
                      > bottom margin...and the spacing looks like it is about 5 px

                      That's because you are using "position:fixed" on #topline (are you aware
                      that this fails in IE?).
                      So use top margin on #wrapper to create the space you want (because no
                      bottom margin on #topline will change anything).
                      In any case, no matter what you do: *REMOVE* #spacer ;-)


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                      • 8. Re: div/php alignment
                        Level 7
                        Again, thank you for your help and your time, and I was aware that when I
                        validated the page it warned that the fixed position of the topline was
                        supposed to be an issue with ie, however it is not on my machine.

                        All of the alternatives I tried have not seemed to work, so the spacer div
                        is still in there. What is the problem with having a spacer div?

                        Thanks again.

                        Gary

                        "Thierry" <thierry@invalid.com> wrote in message
                        news:glgmgt$bqa$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                        > "GPaul" <gwpaul@ptd.net> wrote in message
                        > news:glgkkv$9o2$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                        >> Thanks again
                        >>
                        >> For whatever reason, none of the margins are working. The top div has a
                        >> bottom margin of 30px, the spacer div is set adn 25px height with a 25px
                        >> bottom margin...and the spacing looks like it is about 5 px
                        >
                        > That's because you are using "position:fixed" on #topline (are you aware
                        > that this fails in IE?).
                        > So use top margin on #wrapper to create the space you want (because no
                        > bottom margin on #topline will change anything).
                        > In any case, no matter what you do: *REMOVE* #spacer ;-)
                        >
                        >
                        > --
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                        >


                        • 9. Re: div/php alignment
                          Level 7
                          GPaul" <gwpaul@ptd.net> wrote in message
                          news:glhr8v$ngh$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                          > Again, thank you for your help and your time, and I was aware that when I
                          > validated the page it warned that the fixed position of the topline was
                          > supposed to be an issue with ie, however it is not on my machine.
                          >
                          > All of the alternatives I tried have not seemed to work, so the spacer div
                          > is still in there. What is the problem with having a spacer div?

                          The probel is that the spacer DIV is totally unecessary.
                          Among the other alternatives you already tried, did you try my suggestion?
                          Remove the spacer div and then use top margin on #container to create the
                          space you want.
                          This is may be the third time I'm asking you to do this, so there won't be a
                          fourth ;)


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                          • 10. Re: div/php alignment
                            Level 7
                            Thierry

                            I did try that, it did not work, I removed the spacer div, added bottom
                            margin to the topline div, didnt work. I removed and added top margin to
                            the container div, didnt work. I appled both top and bottom margins to the
                            respcetive divs, still didnt work. I also added clear:both to the container
                            and topline div, still no. I spent about an hour trying differnt
                            combination of margins to make it work without the spacer div. I dont have
                            any affinty for a spacer div, in fact I cant recall ever using one in the
                            past... and I would be very happy to not use it, but so far, that is the
                            only thing that works.

                            Thanks again for your help.

                            "Thierry" <thierry@invalid.com> wrote in message
                            news:gli6n7$7gv$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                            > GPaul" <gwpaul@ptd.net> wrote in message
                            > news:glhr8v$ngh$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                            >> Again, thank you for your help and your time, and I was aware that when I
                            >> validated the page it warned that the fixed position of the topline was
                            >> supposed to be an issue with ie, however it is not on my machine.
                            >>
                            >> All of the alternatives I tried have not seemed to work, so the spacer
                            >> div is still in there. What is the problem with having a spacer div?
                            >
                            > The probel is that the spacer DIV is totally unecessary.
                            > Among the other alternatives you already tried, did you try my suggestion?
                            > Remove the spacer div and then use top margin on #container to create the
                            > space you want.
                            > This is may be the third time I'm asking you to do this, so there won't be
                            > a fourth ;)
                            >
                            >
                            > --
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                            • 11. Re: div/php alignment
                              Level 7
                              GPaul" <gwpaul@ptd.net> wrote in message
                              news:gli7in$8gb$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                              > Thierry
                              >
                              > I did try that, it did not work, I removed the spacer div, added bottom
                              > margin to the topline div, didnt work.

                              That's normal behavior

                              > I removed and added top margin to the container div, didnt work.

                              That's not normal behavior. The only explanation here is that you think the
                              margin to be applied is to meet the bottom of your topline div when in fact
                              it is to meet the TOP of the viewport, because topline is out of the flow.
                              So try this:

                              #container {margin-top:2000em;}

                              and tell me if you can still see the main container ;)



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                              • 12. Re: div/php alignment
                                Level 7
                                This is the result

                                http://www.siddonslaw.com/Untitled-7.php


                                "Thierry" <thierry@invalid.com> wrote in message
                                news:gli9q3$b67$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                > GPaul" <gwpaul@ptd.net> wrote in message
                                > news:gli7in$8gb$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                >> Thierry
                                >>
                                >> I did try that, it did not work, I removed the spacer div, added bottom
                                >> margin to the topline div, didnt work.
                                >
                                > That's normal behavior
                                >
                                >> I removed and added top margin to the container div, didnt work.
                                >
                                > That's not normal behavior. The only explanation here is that you think
                                > the margin to be applied is to meet the bottom of your topline div when in
                                > fact it is to meet the TOP of the viewport, because topline is out of the
                                > flow.
                                > So try this:
                                >
                                > #container {margin-top:2000em;}
                                >
                                > and tell me if you can still see the main container ;)
                                >
                                >
                                >
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                                • 13. Re: div/php alignment
                                  Level 7
                                  "GPaul" <gwpaul@ptd.net> wrote in message
                                  news:gliadb$bv8$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                  > This is the result
                                  >
                                  > http://www.siddonslaw.com/Untitled-7.php

                                  Best proof it works then ;-)
                                  You said adding margin top to #container didn't do anything, here it shows
                                  that it does...
                                  So adjust the value to your needs (i.e. 7em) and also add "top:0" to your
                                  #topline rule.


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                                  • 14. Re: div/php alignment
                                    Level 7
                                    Ok... I think see the problem...you say it is working

                                    This is what I see..

                                    http://www.siddonslaw.com/Untitled-2.png


                                    "Thierry" <thierry@invalid.com> wrote in message
                                    news:glib6t$cr6$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                    > "GPaul" <gwpaul@ptd.net> wrote in message
                                    > news:gliadb$bv8$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                    >> This is the result
                                    >>
                                    >> http://www.siddonslaw.com/Untitled-7.php
                                    >
                                    > Best proof it works then ;-)
                                    > You said adding margin top to #container didn't do anything, here it shows
                                    > that it does...
                                    > So adjust the value to your needs (i.e. 7em) and also add "top:0" to your
                                    > #topline rule.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > --
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                                    • 15. Re: div/php alignment
                                      Level 7
                                      "GPaul" <gwpaul@ptd.net> wrote in message
                                      news:glibg0$d2r$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                      > Ok... I think see the problem...you say it is working
                                      >
                                      > This is what I see..
                                      >
                                      > http://www.siddonslaw.com/Untitled-2.png

                                      hehe, you're looking at it in IE7, I was looking at it in everything else.
                                      If your spacer makes it "work" it is because IE7 is broken and kills the
                                      margin on this container as it follows a fixed positioned element.
                                      In IE6 the margin would work like in any other browsers, but as I said
                                      earlier position:fixed does not work in IE6

                                      What you could use to make it work across the board while at the same time
                                      keeping your markup clean is to use a CSS expression, so add these two
                                      ruiles:

                                      * html {background:url(about:blank);}
                                      #topline
                                      {position:fixed;top:0;left:0;*position:absolute;*top:expression(eval(document.compatMode
                                      && document.compatMode=='CSS1Compat') ? documentElement.scrollTop :
                                      document.body.scrollTop);}

                                      But Google "CSS expressions are evil", first.

                                      Sorry you ran into that nasty bug. Best proof that explaining the issue well
                                      (mentioning link/browser/etc) help to save time ;-)


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                                      • 16. Re: div/php alignment
                                        Level 7
                                        As usual, thank you for your help, however I had tested it in IE7, FF3,
                                        Chrome and Safari. Chrome FF and Safari had pushed the main div(s) to the
                                        depths below...but had eliminated the topline div...IE of course did its own
                                        thing..

                                        I'll google the evil later on...

                                        Thanks again.
                                        "Thierry" <thierry@invalid.com> wrote in message
                                        news:glidav$fao$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                        > "GPaul" <gwpaul@ptd.net> wrote in message
                                        > news:glibg0$d2r$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                        >> Ok... I think see the problem...you say it is working
                                        >>
                                        >> This is what I see..
                                        >>
                                        >> http://www.siddonslaw.com/Untitled-2.png
                                        >
                                        > hehe, you're looking at it in IE7, I was looking at it in everything else.
                                        > If your spacer makes it "work" it is because IE7 is broken and kills the
                                        > margin on this container as it follows a fixed positioned element.
                                        > In IE6 the margin would work like in any other browsers, but as I said
                                        > earlier position:fixed does not work in IE6
                                        >
                                        > What you could use to make it work across the board while at the same time
                                        > keeping your markup clean is to use a CSS expression, so add these two
                                        > ruiles:
                                        >
                                        > * html {background:url(about:blank);}
                                        > #topline
                                        > {position:fixed;top:0;left:0;*position:absolute;*top:expression(eval(document.compatMode
                                        > && document.compatMode=='CSS1Compat') ? documentElement.scrollTop :
                                        > document.body.scrollTop);}
                                        >
                                        > But Google "CSS expressions are evil", first.
                                        >
                                        > Sorry you ran into that nasty bug. Best proof that explaining the issue
                                        > well (mentioning link/browser/etc) help to save time ;-)
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > --
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                                        • 17. Re: div/php alignment
                                          Level 7
                                          "GPaul" <gwpaul@ptd.net> wrote in message
                                          news:glie3s$gar$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                          > As usual, thank you for your help, however I had tested it in IE7, FF3,
                                          > Chrome and Safari. Chrome FF and Safari had pushed the main div(s) to the
                                          > depths below...but had eliminated the topline div...IE of course did its
                                          > own thing..
                                          >
                                          > I'll google the evil later on...

                                          If you want to make things work go through this thread again and read what
                                          to do and not to do and *why*.
                                          For example, if the main div is pushed "to the depths below" it is because
                                          we set a 2000em top margin so this is *normal*, no worries there. And if
                                          you've lost the topline DIV it is because you did not specify top/left
                                          properties (read my previous posts carefully it says to do that).

                                          Good luck.


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                                          • 18. Re: div/php alignment
                                            Level 7
                                            Thierry

                                            Im looking to remove the spacer div and use your solution, but there are a
                                            few things I dont understand.

                                            * html {background:url(about:blank);} What does this mean?

                                            In the second rule, you seem to have two postition rules, one being fixed
                                            and the other being absolute, plus you that beginning and ending *'s, and I
                                            dont know if this is just to point something out or if I was to C/P the
                                            entire part into the style sheet.

                                            Thanks again'
                                            Gary

                                            "Thierry" <thierry@invalid.com> wrote in message
                                            news:glidav$fao$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                            > "GPaul" <gwpaul@ptd.net> wrote in message
                                            > news:glibg0$d2r$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                            >> Ok... I think see the problem...you say it is working
                                            >>
                                            >> This is what I see..
                                            >>
                                            >> http://www.siddonslaw.com/Untitled-2.png
                                            >
                                            > hehe, you're looking at it in IE7, I was looking at it in everything else.
                                            > If your spacer makes it "work" it is because IE7 is broken and kills the
                                            > margin on this container as it follows a fixed positioned element.
                                            > In IE6 the margin would work like in any other browsers, but as I said
                                            > earlier position:fixed does not work in IE6
                                            >
                                            > What you could use to make it work across the board while at the same time
                                            > keeping your markup clean is to use a CSS expression, so add these two
                                            > ruiles:
                                            >
                                            > * html {background:url(about:blank);}
                                            > #topline
                                            > {position:fixed;top:0;left:0;*position:absolute;*top:expression(eval(document.compatMode
                                            > && document.compatMode=='CSS1Compat') ? documentElement.scrollTop :
                                            > document.body.scrollTop);}
                                            >
                                            > But Google "CSS expressions are evil", first.
                                            >
                                            > Sorry you ran into that nasty bug. Best proof that explaining the issue
                                            > well (mentioning link/browser/etc) help to save time ;-)
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > --
                                            > Thierry | Adobe Community Expert | Articles and Tutorials ::
                                            > http://www.TJKDesign.com/go/?0
                                            >
                                            > Spry Widgets | http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/spry/samples/ [click on
                                            > "Widgets"]
                                            > Spry Menu Bar samples |
                                            > http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/spry/samples/menubar/MenuBarSample.html
                                            > --
                                            >


                                            • 19. Re: div/php alignment
                                              Level 7
                                              "GPaul" <gwpaul@ptd.net> wrote in message
                                              news:glq6qg$b8i$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                              > Thierry
                                              >
                                              > Im looking to remove the spacer div and use your solution, but there are a
                                              > few things I dont understand.
                                              >
                                              > * html {background:url(about:blank);} What does this mean?
                                              >
                                              > In the second rule, you seem to have two postition rules, one being fixed
                                              > and the other being absolute, plus you that beginning and ending *'s, and
                                              > I dont know if this is just to point something out or if I was to C/P the
                                              > entire part into the style sheet.

                                              I'm glad you ask as I just noticed that I gave you rules with mixed CSS
                                              filters (IE 6 and 7) when it should only include IE 6 ones.
                                              So go with exactly this:

                                              * html {background:url(about:blank);}
                                              #topline
                                              {position:fixed;top:0;left:0;_position:absolute;_top:expression(eval(document.compatMode
                                              && document.compatMode=='CSS1Compat') ? documentElement.scrollTop :
                                              document.body.scrollTop);}

                                              The selector of the first rule is to make sure only IE 6 and below obey that
                                              rule (because they think html is not the root)
                                              The weird value in url() can be replaced with whatever you want (anything
                                              will do), this is to make sure the "fixed" element in IE6 will not jitter
                                              while the CSS expression does the work of increasing it's "Y" value (it's
                                              kind of non sense, but it works, so...).
                                              In the second rule, the "_" are used to make sure only IE 6 and below will
                                              see these declarations.



                                              --
                                              Thierry | Adobe Community Expert | Articles and Tutorials ::
                                              http://www.TJKDesign.com/go/?0

                                              Spry Widgets | http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/spry/samples/ [click on
                                              "Widgets"]
                                              Spry Menu Bar samples |
                                              http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/spry/samples/menubar/MenuBarSample.html
                                              --

                                              • 20. Re: div/php alignment
                                                Level 7
                                                Ok...here is what I have so far

                                                http://www.siddonslaw.com/testtheirry.php (I know, I misspelled your
                                                name...sorry)


                                                "Thierry" <thierry@invalid.com> wrote in message
                                                news:glq85m$cs7$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                                > "GPaul" <gwpaul@ptd.net> wrote in message
                                                > news:glq6qg$b8i$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                                >> Thierry
                                                >>
                                                >> Im looking to remove the spacer div and use your solution, but there are
                                                >> a few things I dont understand.
                                                >>
                                                >> * html {background:url(about:blank);} What does this mean?
                                                >>
                                                >> In the second rule, you seem to have two postition rules, one being fixed
                                                >> and the other being absolute, plus you that beginning and ending *'s, and
                                                >> I dont know if this is just to point something out or if I was to C/P the
                                                >> entire part into the style sheet.
                                                >
                                                > I'm glad you ask as I just noticed that I gave you rules with mixed CSS
                                                > filters (IE 6 and 7) when it should only include IE 6 ones.
                                                > So go with exactly this:
                                                >
                                                > * html {background:url(about:blank);}
                                                > #topline
                                                > {position:fixed;top:0;left:0;_position:absolute;_top:expression(eval(document.compatMode
                                                > && document.compatMode=='CSS1Compat') ? documentElement.scrollTop :
                                                > document.body.scrollTop);}
                                                >
                                                > The selector of the first rule is to make sure only IE 6 and below obey
                                                > that rule (because they think html is not the root)
                                                > The weird value in url() can be replaced with whatever you want (anything
                                                > will do), this is to make sure the "fixed" element in IE6 will not jitter
                                                > while the CSS expression does the work of increasing it's "Y" value (it's
                                                > kind of non sense, but it works, so...).
                                                > In the second rule, the "_" are used to make sure only IE 6 and below will
                                                > see these declarations.
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > --
                                                > Thierry | Adobe Community Expert | Articles and Tutorials ::
                                                > http://www.TJKDesign.com/go/?0
                                                >
                                                > Spry Widgets | http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/spry/samples/ [click on
                                                > "Widgets"]
                                                > Spry Menu Bar samples |
                                                > http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/spry/samples/menubar/MenuBarSample.html
                                                > --
                                                >


                                                • 21. Re: div/php alignment
                                                  Level 7
                                                  Ok... I've been tinkering and I may have your plan working.... the last post
                                                  it was not, but am adding more margin (in case you view it after and see the
                                                  after effect)


                                                  "GPaul" <gwpaul@ptd.net> wrote in message
                                                  news:glq9eq$efb$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                                  > Ok...here is what I have so far
                                                  >
                                                  > http://www.siddonslaw.com/testtheirry.php (I know, I misspelled your
                                                  > name...sorry)
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > "Thierry" <thierry@invalid.com> wrote in message
                                                  > news:glq85m$cs7$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                                  >> "GPaul" <gwpaul@ptd.net> wrote in message
                                                  >> news:glq6qg$b8i$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                                  >>> Thierry
                                                  >>>
                                                  >>> Im looking to remove the spacer div and use your solution, but there are
                                                  >>> a few things I dont understand.
                                                  >>>
                                                  >>> * html {background:url(about:blank);} What does this mean?
                                                  >>>
                                                  >>> In the second rule, you seem to have two postition rules, one being
                                                  >>> fixed and the other being absolute, plus you that beginning and ending
                                                  >>> *'s, and I dont know if this is just to point something out or if I was
                                                  >>> to C/P the entire part into the style sheet.
                                                  >>
                                                  >> I'm glad you ask as I just noticed that I gave you rules with mixed CSS
                                                  >> filters (IE 6 and 7) when it should only include IE 6 ones.
                                                  >> So go with exactly this:
                                                  >>
                                                  >> * html {background:url(about:blank);}
                                                  >> #topline
                                                  >> {position:fixed;top:0;left:0;_position:absolute;_top:expression(eval(document.compatMode
                                                  >> && document.compatMode=='CSS1Compat') ? documentElement.scrollTop :
                                                  >> document.body.scrollTop);}
                                                  >>
                                                  >> The selector of the first rule is to make sure only IE 6 and below obey
                                                  >> that rule (because they think html is not the root)
                                                  >> The weird value in url() can be replaced with whatever you want (anything
                                                  >> will do), this is to make sure the "fixed" element in IE6 will not jitter
                                                  >> while the CSS expression does the work of increasing it's "Y" value (it's
                                                  >> kind of non sense, but it works, so...).
                                                  >> In the second rule, the "_" are used to make sure only IE 6 and below
                                                  >> will see these declarations.
                                                  >>
                                                  >>
                                                  >>
                                                  >> --
                                                  >> Thierry | Adobe Community Expert | Articles and Tutorials ::
                                                  >> http://www.TJKDesign.com/go/?0
                                                  >>
                                                  >> Spry Widgets | http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/spry/samples/ [click on
                                                  >> "Widgets"]
                                                  >> Spry Menu Bar samples |
                                                  >> http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/spry/samples/menubar/MenuBarSample.html
                                                  >> --
                                                  >>
                                                  >
                                                  >


                                                  • 22. Re: div/php alignment
                                                    Level 7
                                                    "GPaul" <gwpaul@ptd.net> wrote in message
                                                    news:glq9na$epl$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                                    > Ok... I've been tinkering and I may have your plan working.... the last
                                                    > post it was not, but am adding more margin (in case you view it after and
                                                    > see the after effect)
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > "GPaul" <gwpaul@ptd.net> wrote in message
                                                    > news:glq9eq$efb$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                                    >> Ok...here is what I have so far
                                                    >>
                                                    >> http://www.siddonslaw.com/testtheirry.php (I know, I misspelled your
                                                    >> name...sorry)

                                                    ok, you have the fixed part working in IE6 too now< good job!
                                                    But you have some work to do there as the second menu appears broken in IE6.


                                                    --
                                                    Thierry | Adobe Community Expert | Articles and Tutorials ::
                                                    http://www.TJKDesign.com/go/?0

                                                    Spry Widgets | http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/spry/samples/ [click on
                                                    "Widgets"]
                                                    Spry Menu Bar samples |
                                                    http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/spry/samples/menubar/MenuBarSample.html
                                                    --

                                                    • 23. Re: div/php alignment
                                                      Level 7
                                                      It would appear that I was suffering from premature exhuberation when it
                                                      comes to this fix...

                                                      IE7 is still not fixed,....its better, the top line sets in place, but the
                                                      space inbetween the topline and the container is not there. So, not sure
                                                      what I did not do correctly.

                                                      My other question about this is what is the problem with a spacer div? The
                                                      page validated with it, so I am unsure what the issue with it is.

                                                      Thanks again for all your input.

                                                      Gary
                                                      "Thierry" <thierry@invalid.com> wrote in message
                                                      news:glqajm$fmo$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                                      > "GPaul" <gwpaul@ptd.net> wrote in message
                                                      > news:glq9na$epl$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                                      >> Ok... I've been tinkering and I may have your plan working.... the last
                                                      >> post it was not, but am adding more margin (in case you view it after and
                                                      >> see the after effect)
                                                      >>
                                                      >>
                                                      >> "GPaul" <gwpaul@ptd.net> wrote in message
                                                      >> news:glq9eq$efb$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                                      >>> Ok...here is what I have so far
                                                      >>>
                                                      >>> http://www.siddonslaw.com/testtheirry.php (I know, I misspelled your
                                                      >>> name...sorry)
                                                      >
                                                      > ok, you have the fixed part working in IE6 too now< good job!
                                                      > But you have some work to do there as the second menu appears broken in
                                                      > IE6.
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > --
                                                      > Thierry | Adobe Community Expert | Articles and Tutorials ::
                                                      > http://www.TJKDesign.com/go/?0
                                                      >
                                                      > Spry Widgets | http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/spry/samples/ [click on
                                                      > "Widgets"]
                                                      > Spry Menu Bar samples |
                                                      > http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/spry/samples/menubar/MenuBarSample.html
                                                      > --
                                                      >


                                                      • 24. Re: div/php alignment
                                                        Level 7
                                                        "GPaul" <gwpaul@ptd.net> wrote in message
                                                        news:glqn3g$1fq$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                                        > It would appear that I was suffering from premature exhuberation when it
                                                        > comes to this fix...
                                                        >
                                                        > IE7 is still not fixed,....its better, the top line sets in place, but the
                                                        > space inbetween the topline and the container is not there. So, not sure
                                                        > what I did not do correctly.

                                                        Dang! Now I remember why I gave you declarations for both IE 6 *and* 7. It
                                                        is because of the issue you have with IE 7 and your topline DIV being fixed.
                                                        IE 7 does do "fixed" positioning that's why this mroning I modified the
                                                        "hacks" replacing the "*" with a "_", but in fact you need them to kill that
                                                        bug.
                                                        In short you have two solutions:
                                                        - use the spacer DIV as you found out that it foxes your issue
                                                        - serves "position:absolute" to both IE 6 and 7

                                                        > My other question about this is what is the problem with a spacer div?
                                                        > The page validated with it, so I am unsure what the issue with it is.

                                                        Because you want to keep the markup of your document *clean*. Markup is
                                                        what's important.


                                                        --
                                                        Thierry | Adobe Community Expert | Articles and Tutorials ::
                                                        http://www.TJKDesign.com/go/?0

                                                        Spry Widgets | http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/spry/samples/ [click on
                                                        "Widgets"]
                                                        Spry Menu Bar samples |
                                                        http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/spry/samples/menubar/MenuBarSample.html
                                                        --

                                                        • 25. Re: div/php alignment
                                                          Level 7
                                                          Thierry

                                                          I really do appriciate all the attention you have given this, very kind of
                                                          you. There is another fellow that posts here on the board that has a fixed
                                                          top div that seems to work fine. I tried to emulate his code, but it did
                                                          not take.

                                                          http://makowiec.net/ is the site I am talking about...

                                                          I just dont see the difference.

                                                          Thanks again.

                                                          Gary

                                                          "Thierry" <thierry@invalid.com> wrote in message
                                                          news:glqrv7$6ul$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                                          > "GPaul" <gwpaul@ptd.net> wrote in message
                                                          > news:glqn3g$1fq$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                                          >> It would appear that I was suffering from premature exhuberation when it
                                                          >> comes to this fix...
                                                          >>
                                                          >> IE7 is still not fixed,....its better, the top line sets in place, but
                                                          >> the space inbetween the topline and the container is not there. So, not
                                                          >> sure what I did not do correctly.
                                                          >
                                                          > Dang! Now I remember why I gave you declarations for both IE 6 *and* 7. It
                                                          > is because of the issue you have with IE 7 and your topline DIV being
                                                          > fixed.
                                                          > IE 7 does do "fixed" positioning that's why this mroning I modified the
                                                          > "hacks" replacing the "*" with a "_", but in fact you need them to kill
                                                          > that bug.
                                                          > In short you have two solutions:
                                                          > - use the spacer DIV as you found out that it foxes your issue
                                                          > - serves "position:absolute" to both IE 6 and 7
                                                          >
                                                          >> My other question about this is what is the problem with a spacer div?
                                                          >> The page validated with it, so I am unsure what the issue with it is.
                                                          >
                                                          > Because you want to keep the markup of your document *clean*. Markup is
                                                          > what's important.
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > --
                                                          > Thierry | Adobe Community Expert | Articles and Tutorials ::
                                                          > http://www.TJKDesign.com/go/?0
                                                          >
                                                          > Spry Widgets | http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/spry/samples/ [click on
                                                          > "Widgets"]
                                                          > Spry Menu Bar samples |
                                                          > http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/spry/samples/menubar/MenuBarSample.html
                                                          > --
                                                          >


                                                          • 26. Re: div/php alignment
                                                            Level 7
                                                            Difference is that you are not Joe! 8)

                                                            --
                                                            Murray --- ICQ 71997575
                                                            Adobe Community Expert
                                                            (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
                                                            ==================
                                                            http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                                            http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                                            ==================


                                                            "GPaul" <gwpaul@ptd.net> wrote in message
                                                            news:glqsob$7rf$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                                            > Thierry
                                                            >
                                                            > I really do appriciate all the attention you have given this, very kind of
                                                            > you. There is another fellow that posts here on the board that has a
                                                            > fixed top div that seems to work fine. I tried to emulate his code, but
                                                            > it did not take.
                                                            >
                                                            > http://makowiec.net/ is the site I am talking about...
                                                            >
                                                            > I just dont see the difference.
                                                            >
                                                            > Thanks again.
                                                            >
                                                            > Gary
                                                            >
                                                            > "Thierry" <thierry@invalid.com> wrote in message
                                                            > news:glqrv7$6ul$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                                            >> "GPaul" <gwpaul@ptd.net> wrote in message
                                                            >> news:glqn3g$1fq$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                                            >>> It would appear that I was suffering from premature exhuberation when it
                                                            >>> comes to this fix...
                                                            >>>
                                                            >>> IE7 is still not fixed,....its better, the top line sets in place, but
                                                            >>> the space inbetween the topline and the container is not there. So, not
                                                            >>> sure what I did not do correctly.
                                                            >>
                                                            >> Dang! Now I remember why I gave you declarations for both IE 6 *and* 7.
                                                            >> It is because of the issue you have with IE 7 and your topline DIV being
                                                            >> fixed.
                                                            >> IE 7 does do "fixed" positioning that's why this mroning I modified the
                                                            >> "hacks" replacing the "*" with a "_", but in fact you need them to kill
                                                            >> that bug.
                                                            >> In short you have two solutions:
                                                            >> - use the spacer DIV as you found out that it foxes your issue
                                                            >> - serves "position:absolute" to both IE 6 and 7
                                                            >>
                                                            >>> My other question about this is what is the problem with a spacer div?
                                                            >>> The page validated with it, so I am unsure what the issue with it is.
                                                            >>
                                                            >> Because you want to keep the markup of your document *clean*. Markup is
                                                            >> what's important.
                                                            >>
                                                            >>
                                                            >> --
                                                            >> Thierry | Adobe Community Expert | Articles and Tutorials ::
                                                            >> http://www.TJKDesign.com/go/?0
                                                            >>
                                                            >> Spry Widgets | http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/spry/samples/ [click on
                                                            >> "Widgets"]
                                                            >> Spry Menu Bar samples |
                                                            >> http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/spry/samples/menubar/MenuBarSample.html
                                                            >> --
                                                            >>
                                                            >
                                                            >

                                                            • 27. Re: div/php alignment
                                                              Level 7
                                                              "GPaul" <gwpaul@ptd.net> wrote in message
                                                              news:glqsob$7rf$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                                              > Thierry
                                                              >
                                                              > I really do appriciate all the attention you have given this, very kind of
                                                              > you. There is another fellow that posts here on the board that has a
                                                              > fixed top div that seems to work fine. I tried to emulate his code, but
                                                              > it did not take.
                                                              >
                                                              > http://makowiec.net/ is the site I am talking about...

                                                              This does not work in IE6 (the top bar is not fixed). Which is no big deal
                                                              if you ask me (I'm all for progressive enhancement).

                                                              > I just dont see the difference.

                                                              I think it shows a workaround for that bug.

                                                              So try this now (as it is):

                                                              * html {background:url(about:blank);}
                                                              body {margin-top:10em;}
                                                              #topline
                                                              {position:fixed;top:0;left:0;_position:absolute;_top:expression(eval(document.compatMode
                                                              && document.compatMode=='CSS1Compat') ? documentElement.scrollTop :
                                                              document.body.scrollTop);}


                                                              Play with the margin value on body to keep the main container away from
                                                              topline.
                                                              With the above you should have things working across the board


                                                              --
                                                              Thierry | Adobe Community Expert | Articles and Tutorials ::
                                                              http://www.TJKDesign.com/go/?0

                                                              Spry Widgets | http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/spry/samples/ [click on
                                                              "Widgets"]
                                                              Spry Menu Bar samples |
                                                              http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/spry/samples/menubar/MenuBarSample.html
                                                              --

                                                              • 28. Re: div/php alignment
                                                                Level 7
                                                                That did it...Again, thank you for your help and patience... I feel like I
                                                                should almost list your name at the bottom for credits... (Murray gets none
                                                                though 8)
                                                                "Thierry" <thierry@invalid.com> wrote in message
                                                                news:glqtcl$8i1$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                                                > "GPaul" <gwpaul@ptd.net> wrote in message
                                                                > news:glqsob$7rf$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                                                >> Thierry
                                                                >>
                                                                >> I really do appriciate all the attention you have given this, very kind
                                                                >> of you. There is another fellow that posts here on the board that has a
                                                                >> fixed top div that seems to work fine. I tried to emulate his code, but
                                                                >> it did not take.
                                                                >>
                                                                >> http://makowiec.net/ is the site I am talking about...
                                                                >
                                                                > This does not work in IE6 (the top bar is not fixed). Which is no big deal
                                                                > if you ask me (I'm all for progressive enhancement).
                                                                >
                                                                >> I just dont see the difference.
                                                                >
                                                                > I think it shows a workaround for that bug.
                                                                >
                                                                > So try this now (as it is):
                                                                >
                                                                > * html {background:url(about:blank);}
                                                                > body {margin-top:10em;}
                                                                > #topline
                                                                > {position:fixed;top:0;left:0;_position:absolute;_top:expression(eval(document.compatMode
                                                                > && document.compatMode=='CSS1Compat') ? documentElement.scrollTop :
                                                                > document.body.scrollTop);}
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                > Play with the margin value on body to keep the main container away from
                                                                > topline.
                                                                > With the above you should have things working across the board
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                > --
                                                                > Thierry | Adobe Community Expert | Articles and Tutorials ::
                                                                > http://www.TJKDesign.com/go/?0
                                                                >
                                                                > Spry Widgets | http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/spry/samples/ [click on
                                                                > "Widgets"]
                                                                > Spry Menu Bar samples |
                                                                > http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/spry/samples/menubar/MenuBarSample.html
                                                                > --
                                                                >


                                                                • 29. Re: div/php alignment
                                                                  Level 7
                                                                  GPaul" <gwpaul@ptd.net> wrote in message
                                                                  news:glqu29$9d0$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                                                  > That did it...Again, thank you for your help and patience... I feel like I
                                                                  > should almost list your name at the bottom for credits... (Murray gets
                                                                  > none though 8)


                                                                  Great! I'm glad I was able to help
                                                                  Good luck


                                                                  --
                                                                  Thierry | Adobe Community Expert | Articles and Tutorials ::
                                                                  http://www.TJKDesign.com/go/?0

                                                                  Spry Widgets | http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/spry/samples/ [click on
                                                                  "Widgets"]
                                                                  Spry Menu Bar samples |
                                                                  http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/spry/samples/menubar/MenuBarSample.html
                                                                  --

                                                                  • 30. Re: div/php alignment
                                                                    Level 7
                                                                    Bah! 8)

                                                                    --
                                                                    Murray --- ICQ 71997575
                                                                    Adobe Community Expert
                                                                    (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
                                                                    ==================
                                                                    http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                                                    http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
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                                                                    "GPaul" <gwpaul@ptd.net> wrote in message
                                                                    news:glqu29$9d0$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                                                    > That did it...Again, thank you for your help and patience... I feel like I
                                                                    > should almost list your name at the bottom for credits... (Murray gets
                                                                    > none though 8)
                                                                    > "Thierry" <thierry@invalid.com> wrote in message
                                                                    > news:glqtcl$8i1$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                                                    >> "GPaul" <gwpaul@ptd.net> wrote in message
                                                                    >> news:glqsob$7rf$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                                                    >>> Thierry
                                                                    >>>
                                                                    >>> I really do appriciate all the attention you have given this, very kind
                                                                    >>> of you. There is another fellow that posts here on the board that has a
                                                                    >>> fixed top div that seems to work fine. I tried to emulate his code, but
                                                                    >>> it did not take.
                                                                    >>>
                                                                    >>> http://makowiec.net/ is the site I am talking about...
                                                                    >>
                                                                    >> This does not work in IE6 (the top bar is not fixed). Which is no big
                                                                    >> deal if you ask me (I'm all for progressive enhancement).
                                                                    >>
                                                                    >>> I just dont see the difference.
                                                                    >>
                                                                    >> I think it shows a workaround for that bug.
                                                                    >>
                                                                    >> So try this now (as it is):
                                                                    >>
                                                                    >> * html {background:url(about:blank);}
                                                                    >> body {margin-top:10em;}
                                                                    >> #topline
                                                                    >> {position:fixed;top:0;left:0;_position:absolute;_top:expression(eval(document.compatMode
                                                                    >> && document.compatMode=='CSS1Compat') ? documentElement.scrollTop :
                                                                    >> document.body.scrollTop);}
                                                                    >>
                                                                    >>
                                                                    >> Play with the margin value on body to keep the main container away from
                                                                    >> topline.
                                                                    >> With the above you should have things working across the board
                                                                    >>
                                                                    >>
                                                                    >> --
                                                                    >> Thierry | Adobe Community Expert | Articles and Tutorials ::
                                                                    >> http://www.TJKDesign.com/go/?0
                                                                    >>
                                                                    >> Spry Widgets | http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/spry/samples/ [click on
                                                                    >> "Widgets"]
                                                                    >> Spry Menu Bar samples |
                                                                    >> http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/spry/samples/menubar/MenuBarSample.html
                                                                    >> --
                                                                    >>
                                                                    >
                                                                    >

                                                                    • 31. Re: div/php alignment
                                                                      Level 7
                                                                      Thierry

                                                                      Everything is working fine with the topline fixed DIV, well, almost
                                                                      everything. Last night, in design view, the topline DIV dropped down about
                                                                      60px, and I now have 60px of background showing above the topline. It is
                                                                      only in DV, and does not affect it in any of the browsers when published.

                                                                      I removed the body {margin-top:4em;}, and it looked fine in DV, but not when
                                                                      published (the container went up into the topline DIV). I closed and
                                                                      reopened DW, but did not fix.

                                                                      It's not critical, but a tad disconcerting to work on a page out of
                                                                      alignment. Is there something you can think of that would cause this
                                                                      behavior?

                                                                      Thank again.

                                                                      Gary
                                                                      "Thierry" <thierry@invalid.com> wrote in message
                                                                      news:glqtcl$8i1$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                                                      > "GPaul" <gwpaul@ptd.net> wrote in message
                                                                      > news:glqsob$7rf$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                                                      >> Thierry
                                                                      >>
                                                                      >> I really do appriciate all the attention you have given this, very kind
                                                                      >> of you. There is another fellow that posts here on the board that has a
                                                                      >> fixed top div that seems to work fine. I tried to emulate his code, but
                                                                      >> it did not take.
                                                                      >>
                                                                      >> http://makowiec.net/ is the site I am talking about...
                                                                      >
                                                                      > This does not work in IE6 (the top bar is not fixed). Which is no big deal
                                                                      > if you ask me (I'm all for progressive enhancement).
                                                                      >
                                                                      >> I just dont see the difference.
                                                                      >
                                                                      > I think it shows a workaround for that bug.
                                                                      >
                                                                      > So try this now (as it is):
                                                                      >
                                                                      > * html {background:url(about:blank);}
                                                                      > body {margin-top:10em;}
                                                                      > #topline
                                                                      > {position:fixed;top:0;left:0;_position:absolute;_top:expression(eval(document.compatMode
                                                                      > && document.compatMode=='CSS1Compat') ? documentElement.scrollTop :
                                                                      > document.body.scrollTop);}
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Play with the margin value on body to keep the main container away from
                                                                      > topline.
                                                                      > With the above you should have things working across the board
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      > --
                                                                      > Thierry | Adobe Community Expert | Articles and Tutorials ::
                                                                      > http://www.TJKDesign.com/go/?0
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Spry Widgets | http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/spry/samples/ [click on
                                                                      > "Widgets"]
                                                                      > Spry Menu Bar samples |
                                                                      > http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/spry/samples/menubar/MenuBarSample.html
                                                                      > --
                                                                      >


                                                                      • 32. Re: div/php alignment
                                                                        Level 7
                                                                        "GPaul" <gwpaul@ptd.net> wrote in message
                                                                        news:gluqci$71u$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                                                        > Thierry
                                                                        >
                                                                        > Everything is working fine with the topline fixed DIV, well, almost
                                                                        > everything. Last night, in design view, the topline DIV dropped down
                                                                        > about 60px, and I now have 60px of background showing above the topline.
                                                                        > It is only in DV, and does not affect it in any of the browsers when
                                                                        > published.
                                                                        >
                                                                        > I removed the body {margin-top:4em;}, and it looked fine in DV, but not
                                                                        > when published (the container went up into the topline DIV). I closed and
                                                                        > reopened DW, but did not fix.
                                                                        >
                                                                        > It's not critical, but a tad disconcerting to work on a page out of
                                                                        > alignment. Is there something you can think of that would cause this
                                                                        > behavior?


                                                                        Look in DW help files for "Design Time Styles Sheets". These are styles
                                                                        sheets that only DW will "see".


                                                                        --
                                                                        Thierry | Adobe Community Expert | Articles and Tutorials ::
                                                                        http://www.TJKDesign.com/go/?0

                                                                        Spry Widgets | http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/spry/samples/ [click on
                                                                        "Widgets"]
                                                                        Spry Menu Bar samples |
                                                                        http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/spry/samples/menubar/MenuBarSample.html
                                                                        --