16 Replies Latest reply: Nov 2, 2008 8:05 PM by (japchap) RSS

    [CS4] Gradient Panel a waste of space

    Michael_H._Phillips-25llKp Community Member
      Whoever designed the Gradient Panel must have no concept of economy of space.
      Why aren't the Opacity and Location fields arranged horizontally rather than
      vertically?

      --
      Michael

      mhphillips at gmail dot com
        • 1. Re: [CS4] Gradient Panel a waste of space
          Mordy Golding CommunityMVP
          I don't know. But I do know that a lot more goes into an interface element than we normally think. Especially when you consider that Adobe has to localize each application in more than 13 different languages. Sometimes, things that appear spacious in the English version aren't so in the Japanese or German versions.

          :) Mordy
          • 2. Re: [CS4] Gradient Panel a waste of space
            NotInUse Community Member
            Isn't "farhrfegnuegen" German for Opacity? :)
            • 3. Re: [CS4] Gradient Panel a waste of space
              Wade S Zimmerman Community Member
              I wonder why the approach to the criticism has to be so strongly directed.

              How about just saying what you think is wrong and perhaps showing what you think would be better. Then offer it as as suggestion and see maybe you might get people to agree with you?
              • 4. Re: [CS4] Gradient Panel a waste of space
                Michael_H._Phillips-25llKp Community Member
                On Thu, 30 Oct 2008 02:51:15 +0000, Wade_Zimmerman@adobeforums.com wrote:

                > How about just saying what you think is wrong and perhaps showing what you
                > think would be better. Then offer it as as suggestion and see maybe you might

                > get people to agree with you?

                I thought that was what I had done : "Why aren't the Opacity and Location
                fields arranged horizontally rather than vertically?"

                Here's an image of the Panel:



                --
                Michael

                mhphillips at gmail dot com
                • 5. Re: [CS4] Gradient Panel a waste of space
                  Mordy Golding CommunityMVP
                  Ånd I thought my response just pointed out something else to think about. I don't think it was either Michael's or my own intention was to try to rally support to gain agreement. Michael had a wonderment and I added yet another avenue to continue that wonderment.

                  :) Mordy
                  • 6. Re: [CS4] Gradient Panel a waste of space
                    Community Member
                    > "...showing what you think would be better."

                    That's a key phrase for dissection, right there.

                    Whenever anyone speaks about UI decisions that could be made more effective or efficient, or who have a suggestion for something that could be added or "fixed" somehow, I'm of a mind to suggest that it's kind of incumbent upon that person to at least try to create a mock-up of how they think it could be done better, with annotations where necessary.

                    After all...the people who make these sorts of declarations are the same people who use the applications enough to notice and think deeply about the changes they'd like to see. And if you have the applications, why not use them to visually make your case for why you think the changes would benefit the app, and a lot of other users?

                    This may not be the hottest idea to come down the pike (I created it almost two years ago, and I see much room for improvement), but it does show that I practice what I preach.
                    • 7. Re: [CS4] Gradient Panel a waste of space
                      Community Member
                      >I thought that was what I had done : "Why aren't the Opacity and Location
                      fields arranged horizontally rather than vertically?"

                      There are lots and lots of UI gizmos that waste space, in my opinion. I'd like all the panels to just include the elements that I use. The Gradient panel does seem to have considerable blank space. But to answer your question, if the Gradient panel is reduced to its smallest width, there just isn't enough room to put Opacity and Location horizontally.
                      • 8. Re: [CS4] Gradient Panel a waste of space
                        Community Member
                        I have my Gradient Panel extended the full width of my monitor (minus the width of my Toolbox), and only call it up when I need it.

                        Problem solved...for me and my workflow needs, anyway.

                        :)
                        • 9. Re: [CS4] Gradient Panel a waste of space
                          Chris Cox Adobe Employee
                          Another answer is: we don't yet have the technology in all of our applications to automatically re-layout the panels when you change their size. (or when the localization prevents a certain layout)

                          In English, the minimum size prevents the horizontal layout - and other languages make it even worse.

                          We go through a lot of this when designing our applications - because they do have to work in many languages (some of which have long words, and some of which require huge type sizes for labels). Until we have the perfect auto layout technology in place, it will always involve some small tradeoffs.
                          • 10. Re: [CS4] Gradient Panel a waste of space
                            Wade S Zimmerman Community Member
                            Well I think actually the complaint in this case is in error! Though you can cram elements together there are times this is really unwise especially on a computer screen seen at any distance.

                            Put these elements side to side and see what happens everyone will be telling you I keep mixing u which one is on the left and which one is on the right. Easy mistake to make especially as you get older or you are young and if you are even a little dyslexic.

                            Top and bottom, very unlikely mistake to make even if you are very dyslexic.

                            This is a very good beginning to improve the interface and find a way around the panel error factor.

                            For instance everything should be close but then you put the collapse symbol next to the drop down menu and everyone is confused or can't hit the right place.

                            Squeezing things together is a bad idea a more consistent layout design is a better answer and perhaps even one that warps between one function to another. The Control Panel does that and maybe eventually the panels can be replaces with the Bridge and more important functionality.

                            But the gradient panel in this section is the right way to go it is clearly a cleaner and easier to read visual.

                            Who ever did this was thinking straight.
                            • 11. Re: [CS4] Gradient Panel a waste of space
                              Community Member
                              Scott_Weichert@adobeforums.com schrieb:
                              > Isn't "farhrfegnuegen" German for Opacity? :)

                              Almost. :)

                              Usually I'd say "Deckkraft", but Adobe's translators might as well end
                              up with "Durchsichtigkeitssteuerungswert"
                              • 12. Re: [CS4] Gradient Panel a waste of space
                                Nini Tjäder Community Member
                                Well... the Swedish localized version has had huge dialogboxes all the way back many versions back - with plenty of empty space in them. They are also bigger than the English version dialogs. Much bigger. Particularly in Illustrator but partly also in InDesign. There you can really talk about waste of space...

                                I personally never use localized versions for various reasons (one of them being the huge dialogs that covers most of a 13" MacBook screen and previously a 12" PBG4 when you don't have your large display at hand) but I do see them as our users use the localized versions. I've wished since long before the first CS version that somebody would make an overhaul of the Swedish localized dialog boxes and not waste that much space.
                                • 13. Re: [CS4] Gradient Panel a waste of space
                                  Community Member
                                  Actually, "opacity" and "location" can be reduced to just a<br />few characters in Japanese, §¾x (toumeido) and Êu (ichi).<br />My experience as a technical translator from English to Japanese<br />and vice versa has shown me that Japanese tends to be shorter<br />than English in general, because there are often kanji<br />compounds that can be used. The problem with localizing<br />products for the Japanese market is that even though you may<br />use less characters to say the same thing, you can't expect to<br />use the same font size and retain legibility. Chinese Kanji<br />characters (also used heavily in Japanese) tend to be very<br />dense information-wise. A single character may contain<br />more than 20 separate strokes. So there is a balance to be<br />reached there as well, between character legibility and<br />information density.<br /><br />Jeff<br /><br /><br />On 08/10/30 6:11, in article 59b6e173.0@webcrossing.la2eafNXanI,<br />"Mordy_Golding@adobeforums.com" <Mordy_Golding@adobeforums.com> wrote:<br /><br />> I don't know. But I do know that a lot more goes into an interface element<br />> than we normally think. Especially when you consider that Adobe has to<br />> localize each application in more than 13 different languages. Sometimes,<br />> things that appear spacious in the English version aren't so in the Japanese<br />> or German versions.<br />> <br />> :) Mordy
                                  • 14. Re: [CS4] Gradient Panel a waste of space
                                    Community Member
                                    Oops... so much for the Japanese characters on that last mail.<br />I encoded the message in Shift_JIS so that they wouldn't<br />get garbled, but somewhere along the line, the message got<br />converted to ISO-8859-1. Yet another issue with "localization". :-p<br />C'est la vie.<br /><br />Jeff<br /><br /><br />On 08/11/03 17:21, in article C5347324.53AA%japchap@hotmail.com,<br />"japchap@adobeforums.com" <japchap@adobeforums.com> wrote:<br /><br />> Actually, "opacity" and "location" can be reduced to just a<br />> few characters in Japanese, ³§34³x (toumeido) and ʹu (ichi).<br />> My experience as a technical translator from English to Japanese<br />> and vice versa has shown me that Japanese tends to be shorter<br />> than English in general, because there are often kanji<br />> compounds that can be used. The problem with localizing<br />> products for the Japanese market is that even though you may<br />> use less characters to say the same thing, you can't expect to<br />> use the same font size and retain legibility. Chinese Kanji<br />> characters (also used heavily in Japanese) tend to be very<br />> dense information-wise. A single character may contain<br />> more than 20 separate strokes. So there is a balance to be<br />> reached there as well, between character legibility and<br />> information density.<br />> <br />> Jeff<br />> <br />> <br />> On 08/10/30 6:11, in article 59b6e173.0@webcrossing.la2eafNXanI,<br />> "Mordy_Golding@adobeforums.com" <Mordy_Golding@adobeforums.com> wrote:<br />> <br />>> I don't know. But I do know that a lot more goes into an interface element<br />>> than we normally think. Especially when you consider that Adobe has to<br />>> localize each application in more than 13 different languages. Sometimes,<br />>> things that appear spacious in the English version aren't so in the Japanese<br />>> or German versions.<br />>> <br />>> :) Mordy<br />>
                                    • 15. Re: [CS4] Gradient Panel a waste of space
                                      Community Member
                                      JapChap...

                                      It's the convention of these forums for newsreader/NNTP users to TURN OFF their auto-quote feature, and to only mnually quote the bits that are relevant to the reply you're composing. It helps cut down on the visual clutter. If you'll look at the design of the forum layout, you can see we appreciate a rather spartan environment here.

                                      Generallyand just like with any conversationso long as what your reply refers to didn't occur a long time ago, or many posts back, you often don't have to quote anything, so long as you're able to weave a half decent sentence that speaks to what you're commenting on.

                                      And you obviously have a good handle on that already.

                                      :)
                                      • 16. Re: [CS4] Gradient Panel a waste of space
                                        Community Member
                                        Phos-four dots:

                                        Thanks for the tip. I just turned off the
                                        "Include entire message in reply" feature in Entourage,
                                        which is the newsreader I'm using for this group.

                                        Look forward to communicating with all of you more
                                        here about Illustrator!

                                        Jeff