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1. Re: More TypeStyling capability
BobLevine Aug 31, 2008 1:10 PM (in response to Big Jimm)You'd be far better off making a feature request for Illustrator on
something like this.
Bob -
2. Re: More TypeStyling capability
(peterpica) Sep 3, 2008 4:50 PM (in response to Big Jimm)Check out Art Text... a poor man's version of TypeStyler that works in Leopard:
http://www.belightsoft.com/products/arttext/overview.php -
3. Re: More TypeStyling capability
(Phos±four_dots) Sep 13, 2008 9:52 PM (in response to Big Jimm)ArtText does some cool stuff, but it doesn't come within a mile of what TypeStyler could do...10 years ago. -
4. Re: More TypeStyling capability
sandeecohen Sep 14, 2008 6:59 AM (in response to Big Jimm)Have you looked at the Warp features in Illustrator. It does everything TypeStyler did and more! -
5. Re: More TypeStyling capability
(peterpica) Sep 14, 2008 6:50 PM (in response to Big Jimm)Do not disagree but neither does it's price either.
For one-time, Q&D needs, Art Type as well as Cool Type on the web serve many needs at prices hard to beat. -
6. Re: More TypeStyling capability
(Phos±four_dots) Sep 14, 2008 10:17 PM (in response to Big Jimm)> "It does everything TypeStyler did and more!"
No, it doesn't.
Full stop. -
7. Re: More TypeStyling capability
sandeecohen Sep 14, 2008 10:23 PM (in response to Big Jimm)> No, it doesn't.
I'm referring to the original TypeStyler.
And yes, if you know how to use Illustrator, it does do what TS did. -
8. Re: More TypeStyling capability
(Phos±four_dots) Sep 14, 2008 11:02 PM (in response to Big Jimm)We were talking about the newest version of TypeStyler...3.7.2. <br /> <br />While there are surely things that AI CS3 can do that TS 3.7.2 couldn't (meshes being the main thing) below is a composite screenshot of two of the biggies that AI CS3 left out that make its text warping/envelope distortion features seem less-than-fully-baked by comparison. Surely Adobe's engineers/designers know all about TS, and understand how usefuland, dare I say, <b> <i>necessary</i> </b>having the ability to link and mirror controls is. <br /> <br />It's just this sort of incompleteness of implementation that is a good example of what a lot of people complain about when the new whiz-bangs are added to Adobe's apps. <br /> <br />I'd sure like to see what could have become of TypeStyler if it had been enjoying regular development boosts over the past 10 years, like AI has. It would've made AI's warp/envelope look positively medieval. <br /> <br /> <a href="http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=1BwEpcbhaNpx7Atnp1UMiP3u3vqbO0" /></a> <img alt="Picture hosted by Pixentral" src="http://www.pixentral.com/hosted/1BwEpcbhaNpx7Atnp1UMiP3u3vqbO0_thumb.jpg" border="0" /> -
9. Re: More TypeStyling capability
sandeecohen Sep 15, 2008 1:05 AM (in response to Big Jimm)Yes, I agree that TS does more things "easily" but here's something I whipped up in Illustrator that I have far more control of than TS gives:
http://vectorbabe.com/warp.gif
It's a question of target market.
TS was always positioned for the non-artist, non-designer, who wanted a quick and easy way to create warp effects.
When Illustrator added its warp tools it gave a few pre-made warps and envelopes (hence the fish which was a direct nod to TS) but it left the majority of warping to be done by custom shapes.
I worked closely with the Illustrator product managers and gave them input that the "gold standard" of warping would be to be able to create the "Monkees" logo of text inside a guitar shape.
This, indeed is something they accomplished. But you have to be able to draw the guitar.
TS went more with the mirrored commands and automatic squaring of warp shapes.
It's not that the Adobe engineers can't accomplish the TS features. It's that their audience is above it.
However, the real point is that InDesign should NEVER have such features.
They are illustration features, not layouts ones. -
10. Re: More TypeStyling capability
[Jongware] Sep 15, 2008 1:08 AM (in response to Big Jimm)>It's not that the Adobe engineers can't accomplish the TS features. It's that their audience is above it.
Ooof! (Glad
i someone
finally said it! Someone else than "just me" ;-) ) -
11. Re: More TypeStyling capability
sandeecohen Sep 15, 2008 3:33 AM (in response to Big Jimm)> Glad someone finally said it! Someone else than "just me"
Oh I've been saying similar things for years. I just never say it here in the ID forum as it has nothing to do with Illustrator.
Actually one of the deep differences between Illustrator and FreeHand, back in the days they were neck and neck rivals, was that FreeHand always made it slightly easier to do things.
For instance, with FreeHand there was a command that instantly converted a corner point to curve and set the handles automatically to be equal. With Illustrator you had to do it manually.
Similarly FreeHand had some really cool mirror effects for creating kaliedescope effects. Illustrator never did.
Ever wonder why there isn't an "Illustrator Elements" product? I do. -
12. Re: More TypeStyling capability
(Phos±four_dots) Sep 15, 2008 6:09 AM (in response to Big Jimm)> "However, the real point is that InDesign should NEVER have such features. "
I agree, and my apologies if I seem to have suggested it should. I'm here, in this thread, because I followed Jim Graham's post over from a similar one he made in the Illustrator forum's Feature Request section.
> "It's that their audience is above it."
I'm afraid, my dear, that for me that statement carries the whiff of elitist attitude B.S. that I loathe so much. It's the same attitude many traditional artists expressed when computer applications started boldly and ably treading on their hallowed ground. I personally don't care one bit about the vehicle that gets me where I wanna go. Sometimes, only a Crayola will do what you need.
It's never about the tools. It's always about the person wielding them. -
13. Re: More TypeStyling capability
[Jongware] Sep 15, 2008 6:27 AM (in response to Big Jimm)>It's never about the tools. It's always about the person wielding them.
But don't you think we would see even
i more
persons wielding a tool like this inexpertedly?
Since this is the InDesign forum (I can vividly imagine similar discussions on the Illustrator counterpart), I have had people come over to our office, proudly presenting a document they created "with an industrial strength tool" -- InDesign -- "so it's technically perfect" -- images with screen resolution and in RGB, mixed spot and process colours, 'missing character' squares used as squares -- "as well as visually a professional job" -- ... you fill in the gory details. -
14. Re: More TypeStyling capability
(Phos±four_dots) Sep 15, 2008 7:50 AM (in response to Big Jimm)><B>"But don't you think we would see even more persons wielding a tool like this inexpertedly?"</B><br /><br />Who cares? People will always do that, no matter what the software.<br /><br /><fascist sarcasm><br />In a perfect world, everyone would be schooled from birth on the fine points of using major software applications and barred from using them until they were duly tested, accredited and licensed. That way we oh-so-brilliant muckety-mucks wouldn't have to deal with the great unwashed masses of people who don't meet out high standards of error-free expertise and artistic sensibilities.<br /></fascist sarcasm><br /><br />8/<br /><br />The point is, if a tool makes it possible to perform a desired outcome more easily, or offers functions unavailable elsewhere, why dismiss it because it's something anyone could use? The dilettante user has far more omissions in their education about putting together flawless files than having access to a more robust "type-styling" tool could cure. We need to be careful not to conflate these two disparate issues. -
15. Re: More TypeStyling capability
Michael Witherell Sep 15, 2008 10:20 AM (in response to Big Jimm)Yeah, I hate it when I conflate my disparate issues. It really hurts!
Pardon me for chiming in with my rambling 2 cents worth, but...
I will always vote for simplicity in interface when it comes to the tools we use. For example, the simplicity of color correcting a picture in Adobe Camera Raw is so much more understandable than learning to use Levels or Curves inside Photoshop image adjustments.
The concept of eager educational tools jumping out at the user is a helpful concept (something seen in Photoshop Elements).
Illustrator could learn a new trick or two about simplicity. It should expand its notion of simple presets along with full control editability. So on the subject of type styling, I think there should be more features added to Illustrator, too. If we can have the ease of use of layer styles and effects, we should allow typestyling effects in, too.
Still, if you give the simplest of tools to any novice, they will still mess them up. Even experienced trained graphic artists never run out of new and novel ways to mess up a file.
Mike Witherell in Maryland -
16. Re: More TypeStyling capability
(Phos±four_dots) Sep 15, 2008 10:28 AM (in response to Big Jimm)> "Even experienced trained graphic artists never run out of new and novel ways to mess up a file. "
A'yup. And that dovetails exactly with the last 2 sentences in my reply #12. -
17. Re: More TypeStyling capability
Kath-H Sep 16, 2008 1:29 PM (in response to Big Jimm)Round of applause for Phos!




