10 Replies Latest reply on Apr 21, 2006 2:51 PM by (Richard_Cooper)

    AdobeRGB* VS Adobe RGB

      When I open an image in PSE3 it shows RGB/8* and another image opens and shows RGB/8 with no asterick.
      The first image is shot in sRGB and the second is shot in AdobeRGB.
      Is this why the asterick appears?
      Thanks
      Richard Cooper
        • 1. Re: AdobeRGB* VS Adobe RGB
          Level 1
          It indicates your document colour profile does not match your work space profile.

          Colin
          • 2. Re: AdobeRGB* VS Adobe RGB
            Level 1
            So, PSE3 workspace is set to RGB and any image that is not RGB would be astericked.
            Correct?
            Thanks
            Richard
            • 3. Re: AdobeRGB* VS Adobe RGB
              Level 1
              To be correct, if your workspace is set to sRGB and the document you open is in another colour space then you get the *.

              Similarly, if you have Elements set for AdobeRGB and the image you open is in some other colour space, you'll get the *

              These are the only two options you have. It's just for information only.

              Colin
              • 4. Re: AdobeRGB* VS Adobe RGB
                Level 1
                Is there a plugin for PSE3 or a stand alone application that can convert RGB images to sRGB for the web?
                Thanks
                Richard
                • 5. Re: AdobeRGB* VS Adobe RGB
                  Richard,

                  Colin is correct, "RGB/8*" does indicates your document colour profile does
                  not match your work space profile. PSE4 works as Colin said. However, you
                  said you have PSE3. PSE3 works a little differently -- you can only get
                  "RGB/8*" when you have your color settings set to "Full Color Management".
                  If you have your color settings anything else, you won't see that.

                  You asked "So, PSE3 workspace is set to RGB and any image that is not RGB
                  would be astericked.
                  Correct?"

                  No, not quite. First of all, let's go over what "RGB/8" means. The "8" part
                  is easy. This is just the bit depth of the color channels. In this case 8
                  bits per channel. The "RGB" part is the color mode of the image. If the
                  mode were Grayscale this would read "Gray", Indexed mode would read
                  "Indexed" and so forth. Since yours says "RGB", the image is in RGB mode.

                  PSE3 only supports a few color modes. RGB is one and Grayscale, Bitmap, and
                  Indexed are the others. If you try to open an image in an unsupported mode
                  such as CMYK or LAB, you'll get a popup message saying the mode is
                  unsupported and there will be a button to allow you to convert to RGB mode.

                  The "*" on the end has to do with the color profile associated with the
                  image. Profile and Mode are not the same thing. The mode describes how
                  colors are represented (RGB says that each color will be represented by a
                  Red value, a Green value, and a Blue value). By themselves, these are just
                  numbers in the range of 0 to 255. Determining what those numbers mean is
                  the role of the profile which decribes how these color values are to be
                  interpreted. There can be many profiles for the same mode. Adobe RGB and
                  sRGB are both RGB profiles and are probably the most common. There are
                  other RGB profiles as well.

                  When you set your color settings to "Full Color Management", you told PSE3
                  that you wanted it to use Adobe RGB for the default internal working color
                  space. However, this setting will also attempt to retain any color space
                  profile which may be embedded in the image. The "*" tells you that PSE3 did
                  just that. Your default color space is Adobe RBG but your working color
                  space is something else -- most likely sRGB, but other RGB profiles could
                  have been embedded instead. When you see the "*" in PSE3, your work space
                  profile is not Adobe RGB, you are using the embedded profile.

                  PSE4 is improved over PSE3 in how it handles color management and profiles
                  and can do limited conversions between sRGB and Adobe RGB. You might want
                  to consider upgrading to it if you need to convert Adobe RGB to sRGB often.

                  Bob
                  • 6. Re: AdobeRGB* VS Adobe RGB
                    Level 1
                    Bob, you have been very helpful and I appreciate this information which I have saved.
                    My Sony DSC R1 assigns the RGB color space and PSE3 opens the image with out questioning when PSE3 is set to full color management.
                    If I shoot in sRGB PSE3 works the same in the full color management setting.
                    When I compare the RGB and sRGB image in PSE3 the histograms are slightly different.
                    The sRGB has a wider spread of the dynamic range (0-256) but the height of the pixels in the histrogram are not as high. When you look at the two images the sRGB image is a bit (no pun intended) brighter especially the greens.
                    PSE3 shows "*" for the sRGB but not the RGB. Overall I think I got it.
                    Thanks for your help.
                    Richard Cooper
                    • 7. Re: AdobeRGB* VS Adobe RGB
                      Level 1
                      Richard.....

                      Some additional clarification.

                      You need to understand that the the Working Space setting has no affect on your image if it has a profile associated with it. The Working Space is for new images created within Photoshop or images that do not have any tagged profile.

                      What is important is that you calibrate and profile (if possible) your display. It is the display profile that is used in the translation of the colours from your image colour space to the display.

                      As AdobeRGB and sRGB have a different gamut it is possible to see shifts in some of the colours.

                      Colin
                      • 8. Re: AdobeRGB* VS Adobe RGB
                        Level 1
                        Richard,

                        Your camera has three color modes: standard (sRGB), vivid (sRGB but distorts
                        range by decreasing brightness and boosting saturation), and Adobe RGB. It
                        also supports RAW mode. PSE3 will process your raw mode images if you
                        download and install the latest camera raw plugin (version 3.3) from the
                        Adobe web site (http://www.adobe.com/products/photoshop/cameraraw.html).

                        "Full Color Management" will use the embedded profile in your images instead
                        of the default color profile established by your color setting. If you
                        shoot in sRGB you will work in sRGB. Likewise, if you shoot in Adobe RGB,
                        you will work in Adobe RGB. This is exactly what you want it to do.

                        Adobe RGB and sRGB are both RGB color spaces but they differ in terms of the
                        gamut and representation of the colors. They both have their place. From
                        your description of the differences you are seeing, it almost sounds like
                        you set your camera to "vivid". The camera setting you choose will write
                        out the color settings to the jpg image to match the profile so you will see
                        differences in the histogram. That's normal.

                        You might want to consider shooting in RAW. When you do so, you are
                        capturing the raw sensor values unprocessed and you can defer the selection
                        of a color space until you actually process it in Elements. The camera raw
                        plugin in Photoshop will let you choose the color space in the plugin.
                        Elements doesn't do that in the plugin (at least PSE3 doesn't, I don't know
                        about PSE4) -- it uses the default color space as established by your color
                        settings. "Full color management" will result in an Adobe RGB image and
                        "Limited color management" will result in an sRGB image.

                        Be careful with the color management settings when processing images that
                        were not shot in RAW. In PSE3, "Limited color managment" will always assign
                        an sRGB profile ignoring any embedded profile (unlike PSE4 which honors the
                        profile). This is not good. For an example, take an image you shot using
                        Adobe RGB and open it while the color setting is "Limited color managment".
                        The colors will appear less saturated and less contrasty by comparison with
                        the original Adobe RGB image. The same thing happens when you view an
                        Adobe RGB image on a web site with a browser that doesn't support color
                        management (most of them don't). This is why you want to use sRGB for
                        viewing on the web.

                        Bob
                        • 9. Re: AdobeRGB* VS Adobe RGB
                          Barbara B. Level 7
                          >at least PSE3 doesn't, I don't know
                          about PSE4

                          No difference in PE 4.
                          • 10. Re: AdobeRGB* VS Adobe RGB
                            Level 1
                            Bob, thank you for the information.
                            I have saved it for reference.
                            It's great to have a forum that explains issues and more that you can't find in the owners manual.
                            Richard