27 Replies Latest reply on Nov 8, 2009 12:30 PM by Lotokomo

    camera support

      I need to order a camera asap, and am considering the panasonic hg-avx200 dvcpro. Will this cam be supported directly in Adobe, or will I need some sort of thrid party app/hardware? I currently have the rt.x2 capture board with premiere pro.
        • 1. Re: camera support
          Harm Millaard Level 7
          It is not yet supported. An OT question, why consider to invest in outdated technology?
          • 2. Re: camera support
            Jim_Simon Level 8
            The camera will work with DV material from tape, and the RT.X2 might very well include support for the various DVCPro shooting modes on P2, but you'll have to check with Matrox on that.

            And don't listen to Harm. The HVX200 is still an excellent camera, and Adobe is hard at work on adding full native P2 support.
            • 3. Re: camera support
              Level 1
              P2 will die.
              • 4. Re: camera support
                Jim_Simon Level 8
                As must all things. Bot not soon enough to make the camera a bad investment.
                • 5. Re: camera support
                  Harm Millaard Level 7
                  > And don't listen to Harm. The HVX200 is still an excellent camera, and Adobe is hard at work on adding full native P2 support.

                  Jim,

                  I agree with you that it is an excellent camera. The only drawbacks are that it is absurdly overpriced, due to P2, and it has seriously lacking ingest possibilities.

                  For around $ 795 you get around 16 minutes recording time in 1080i. So if you need 2 hours of recording time while out in the field, you start out with a storage investment of around $ 6360, apart from the camera. Then you have the problem that a recent notebook can not ingest the MXF files, due to the use of ExpressCard connections and no longer a PCMCIA card. So you have to use your last century's notebook or at least one without Core2Duo technology.
                  • 6. Re: camera support
                    Jim_Simon Level 8
                    >The only drawbacks are that it is absurdly overpriced

                    Well, value is often a subjective thing. But I will say that when the camera first came out, many reviewers were pleased to see a professional HD camera (HDV being widely though of as consumer) for under $10,000.

                    >it has seriously lacking ingest possibilities.

                    Only with Premiere. The other three NLEs - Avid, FCP and Edius - have had support for quite a while now. And like I said, that ingest for Premiere is being worked on, mainly because so many folks have been asking Adobe for it.

                    >So you have to use your last century's notebook or at least one without Core2Duo technology.

                    I suppose some might find that a drawback. Personally, I never even think about editing on a laptop. For me, only a full workstation will suffice. And I suspect that holds true for the vast majority of HD editors. Plus, there are ways to transfer the files without directly plugging in the P2 card, so this is really a very small win for this argument in my book.

                    Now if you want to talk about drawbacks for that camera, for me that would be the less than full HD resolution chips, the insufficient range of zoom speeds (slow is too fast, and fast is too slow), and no AVC-Intra recording, which is where I think the future of professional HD recording lies.
                    • 7. Re: camera support
                      Harm Millaard Level 7
                      > Personally, I never even think about editing on a laptop. For me, only a full workstation will suffice. And I suspect that holds true for the vast majority of HD editors. Plus, there are ways to transfer the files without directly plugging in the P2 card, so this is really a very small win for this argument in my book.

                      Neither am I. However, I do not consider it feasible to carry my workstation around in the field for a full day shoot, so the balance is either to invest in more P2 cards or carry a notebook where you can copy the MXF files to, in order te re-use your P2 card. Otherwise you may have to invest in six hour storage capability, bringing the storage investment up to $ 20K.

                      > Well, value is often a subjective thing. But I will say that when the camera first came out, many reviewers were pleased to see a professional HD camera (HDV being widely though of as consumer) for under $10,000.

                      If you add the additional $ 20 K for P2 cards, this does not hold true. When you then add that it only has 540 pixels vertical resolution on the chips, a Sony 330 is a much more attractive deal.
                      • 8. Re: camera support
                        Jim_Simon Level 8
                        >I do not consider it feasible to carry my workstation around in the field for a full day shoot

                        Panasonic agrees with you.

                        >When you then add that it only has 540 pixels vertical resolution on the chips, a Sony 330 is a much more attractive deal.

                        I disagree. The Sony still uses Intraframe recording and records in the 4:2:0 color space. Those are very real limitations you just can't avoid with the XDCAM HD format.

                        I think the similarly priced AG-HPX500 from Panasonic is the better deal. It has larger 2/3" chips, compared to the Sony's 1/2" chips. And in August will get an upgrade to record AVC-Intra, thereby doubling the record time on P2 media.

                        But all this is moot (unless you can spot me the 15 grand so we can have a shoot out.) I only wanted to point out to Ben that the HVX200 is a very good investment, for now and into the near future.
                        • 9. Re: camera support
                          does anyone know if premiere cs3 will work better with my new Canon HV20 camera. Premiere pro 2.0 works, but the images have wierd lines. The camera is not listed in the compatible camera list in the capture part of premiere 2. Also, I am considering returning the canon for the new sony hard disk 100gig hd. Any advice???
                          • 10. Re: camera support
                            Harm Millaard Level 7
                            Depends on what you want, a camera or a hard disk. If the latter, why use PremPro?
                            • 11. Re: camera support
                              To edit .mxf files (P2) I use Raylight. This allows me to edit directly off the .mxf file without any encoding. The best part is that Raylight allows me to adjust the playback quality to match my system, so when I'm in the field I can still get smooth playback on my laptop.

                              I do a lot of run and gun style shooting so I keep my workflow simple thanks to P2 Genie and Raylight. I have a Dell D620 Intel Core Duo T2400(1.83GHz) with a PCMCIA Slot that I carry with me. I dump the P2 cards to an external Seagate Agent 160 GB USB powered drive ($99) using P2 Genie to execute the transfer. P2 Genie validates the footage transferred and then erases the P2 card (this is a configurable option), so it's ready to roll as soon as I put it back in the HVX200. Another cool feature of P2 Genie is that it allows me to select a "2'nd Destination", so I can have two 160 GB USB drives attached and get backup of all my footage (just keep in mind that it takes twice as long because you are coping to 2 locations)

                              The P2 workflow did take some getting used to and I would love to see NATIVE support in Adobe!! Regardless, I love the P2 workflow and by day's end I have all my footage captured and ready to edit. No more logging from tapes in real time.

                              Make sure to also check out Cineform.. Though more expensive it's another alternative.
                              • 12. Re: camera support
                                I can't test de HDV with the trial version of CS3. Does anyone know if premiere cs3 will work with the Canon HV10 camera ? Is the HV10 compatible ?

                                Thanks.
                                • 13. Re: camera support
                                  pmasters8941 Level 1
                                  Wait a sec. DVRack HD 2.0 came with a DVCPro HS Batch converter and I know OnLocation says something about a decoder being installed. Wouldnt this work?
                                  • 14. Re: camera support
                                    Jim,

                                    From your comment that Adobe is hard at work to provide native support for the P2 MXF files, may I assume that Premiere Pro CS3 does not provide this support and that Raylight or something similar must still be used?

                                    Dave
                                    • 15. Re: camera support
                                      Level 1
                                      You are correct Dave.
                                      • 16. Re: camera support
                                        i just wanted to add a few msg for those who argu about P2 and the HVX200 in general.
                                        i've been shooting animal documentaries with this cam' and i just wanted to say that it was awesome!!!
                                        i spent 7000E in the camcorder plus a firestore, (actually when i bought it the P2 were absolutely unaffordable).
                                        if you want to have enough recording time, harm use an external HDD, it provides you 111minutes in 1080, with a pre record extended to 6 seconds.(just the time to wake up and shot)

                                        as i was beginning with that equipment ithougt that less than two hours of recordding time on a field would be a handicap... but after many days spent following dolphins you learn how to use the pré-rec function and finally you spend much less time shooting useless picture. since you push rec', you're nearly sure to have a good rush.

                                        that work also for P2 cards, prices are decreasing, and as you know you've a short recording time, use the prerec' function to spend this time in good rushes.

                                        regards Paul
                                        • 17. Re: camera support
                                          Level 1
                                          Will the hvx200 export directly (stream) into premiere (via firewire)in 1080? I know this can be done with firestore, but will it go to a pc or other external drive? I did it in tape mode with no problem.

                                          BTW, I bought the hvx200, and love it. The image quality is worth the price, even at 480.

                                          I am going to keep my eye on the p2 cards will probably get a few within the next few months.

                                          Thanks for the info (good and bad). I am pleased thus far with the HVX200.

                                          Ben Watson
                                          • 18. Re: camera support
                                            I"ll throw in my two cents here...

                                            Having used EVERY SINGLE FORM OF HD OUT THERE, The F350 XDCam HD is the most attractive right now. I have owned an F900 Sony Cine Alta & a Panasonic VariCam. Both are very expensive to purchase. Even more expensive in post production.

                                            I recently SOLD BOTH for the F350. Yes it has intraframe, long GOP recording. However, the P2 format is SO UNSTABLE. I have lost footage several times. Footage too valuable to lose, and have in turn lost clients. I haven't had a single problem integrating the XDCam HD footage into my Adobe HD, fully uncompressed Matrox system. My clients love it! They are so surprised at what I can offer them over the other systems such as AVID or FCP. They love the clipnotes. Everything WORKS!

                                            The XDCam discs are VERY cheap when compared to a P2 Card. You can AFFORD to archive on them as well. I've had clients drop their own P2 cards only to damage them, and lose "percentages" of usable space on the card. Also, I've dumped material, let them leave and re-used the P2 cards, only to find out they have problems with the drive that we dumped the media to. I can't afford 12K worth of cards! So, I have completely abandoned the P2 format, for the MUCH more reliable and cost effective XDCam HD.

                                            Yes, it's a 1/2" chip, but on scopes, you can't tell the difference. believe me, I've done my homework, and Band Pro in LA helped do a test of the two cameras, and the Sony came out well ahead, long GOP or not.

                                            Hey budgets are tight, and the P2 workflow is just too expensive.
                                            • 19. Re: camera support Canon HV10
                                              winnithedevil

                                              Hello,

                                               

                                              I have the same problem capturing HDV Video with trial version of CS3 . You need many trails before you can capture with this camera.

                                               

                                              The result is bad.  Green and red stripes appears in the window preview  if you play the video later from the timeline.

                                               

                                              regards,

                                              W.Hering

                                              • 20. Re: camera support Canon HV10
                                                Harm Millaard Level 7

                                                The trial does not support anything MPEG, including HDV as is clearly stated on the Adobe site.

                                                • 21. Re: camera support Canon HV10
                                                  winnithedevil Level 1

                                                  Thank you,

                                                   

                                                  but I cannot find my Camera in the capture device list of Premiere Pro CS3 ..............?

                                                   

                                                  so I cannot believe that the full version fits that problem...

                                                   

                                                  Next I will try a trial version of  CS4.......... I hope I can capture a  HDV Video from my camera.

                                                   

                                                   

                                                  regards,

                                                  W.Hering

                                                  • 22. Re: camera support Canon HV10
                                                    Harm Millaard Level 7

                                                    No go. The same MPEG limitations apply to CS4.

                                                    • 23. Re: camera support
                                                      Lotokomo

                                                      The P2 are very much discussed in many forums and also Sony stated that they found the P2 card an overprized item. But Sony did find the idea of such a card very good and came with there own SxS card. And the prize of teh SxS card is even higher than the P2 card. So teh prize is high but will fall. The technic and idea are perfect, Sony would like they had this idea first.

                                                      • 24. Re: camera support
                                                        Harm Millaard Level 7

                                                        Then you probably never heard of the KxS cards.

                                                        • 25. Re: camera support
                                                          Lotokomo Level 1

                                                          O yes I did. But this is not a Sony development and only works with 35 Mbit/sec . It is discovered that it works by someone who was just trying it. Did they try the same with P2 camcorders? Fact is that were Sony first gave comment on an axpensive card, they themselves come with an even more expensive one.

                                                          • 26. Re: camera support
                                                            Harm Millaard Level 7
                                                            But this is not a Sony development and only works with 35 Mbit/sec .

                                                             

                                                            What other rates woudl you want on the EX series?

                                                            • 27. Re: camera support
                                                              Lotokomo Level 1

                                                              For the moment the max bitraye on EX camera's is 35 Mbit indeed. Sony developed it for higher bitrates and those camera's are still to come. The Sony card can do bitrates up to 800 Mbit., and of course they did not make such cards  to use it only on 35 Mbit. My point is that Sony's own cards are still more expensive than the P2 cards. That others discovered that there is a less expensive way was not Sony's goal.