1 2 Previous Next 77 Replies Latest reply on Dec 19, 2007 11:42 PM by SiliconPixel

    Reasons for PPCS3 not to be 64bit

    Level 1
      I'm trying to think of a logical reason why Premiere has not been compiled for XP/Vista 64bit. As we all know PP3 is a true resource hog, and would make more sense to me to release 64bit only version rather than 32bit version. Since anyone really working with PP3 probably has computer pretty much dedicated for video editing (meaning no bunch of icons in task bar, no anti virus/adware/spyware..)

      Only reason I think could be is the fact that no codec has really been ported to 64bit yet. Is this it?

      Thanks
        • 1. Re: Reasons for PPCS3 not to be 64bit
          Jim_Simon Level 8
          My guess would be it just hasn't been done yet. Other things have taken priority, like the Mac port.
          • 2. Re: Reasons for PPCS3 not to be 64bit
            Level 1
            > Only reason I think could be is the fact that no codec has really been
            > ported to 64bit yet. Is this it?

            The problem is getting *all* the necessary drivers and applications ported
            and stable. If PPro is ported to 64 bits and crashes due to missing or
            unstable video drivers, who gets the blame? Which company support lines are
            clogged with calls for assistance? If a company is early to the party, they
            will take a hit, even if it's not their fault.

            Best,
            Christopher
            • 3. Re: Reasons for PPCS3 not to be 64bit
              Harm Millaard Level 7
              Apart from that 80% still uses 32 bit OS, not 64 bit, so why limit your potential customer base by 400%?
              • 4. Re: Reasons for PPCS3 not to be 64bit
                Jim_Simon Level 8
                To force people to update their OS to the 21st century?
                • 5. Re: Reasons for PPCS3 not to be 64bit
                  Harm Millaard Level 7
                  Maybe MS should first deliver a stable, reliable and efficient OS with full third party support first, capable of meeting 21-st century expectations.
                  • 6. Re: Reasons for PPCS3 not to be 64bit
                    Jim_Simon Level 8
                    Chicken?

                    Or do you prefer eggs?

                    I think in the end someone will have to bite the bullet and lay out some development cash. Microsoft and Adobe, being the world's number 1 and number 2 biggest software companies respectively, seem the right folks to do just that.
                    • 7. Re: Reasons for PPCS3 not to be 64bit
                      ArrrBee Level 1
                      Actually this whole 64-bit OS thing has been discussed and answered in
                      the Photoshop forum. It is not possible to do a port of a 32-bit application
                      to a 64-bit one. Adobe personal have stated that it can't be done it
                      requires at total rewrite of the program in question and that isn't a simple
                      or quick task and certainly not something Adobe is going to do for those
                      playing at 64-bit. Too many other things have to happen before they will do
                      it. Hardware support, driver support, consumer support, etc.

                      If it was just a simple matter of changing a few things in a 32-bit program
                      to make it 64-bit Adobe and many other companies would have done this
                      already. Companies are greedy and any way they can make a little more money
                      without a lot of work they would do.

                      Robert
                      • 8. Re: Reasons for PPCS3 not to be 64bit
                        Level 1
                        >Companies are greedy and any way they can make a little more money
                        without a lot of work they would do.

                        I'm not sure 'greedy' is the word I would use here (although I have no doubt its application is valid in other circumstances). If the creation of a 64bit version of the program will cost a considerable sum and take up large amounts of a finite pool of developer time, and the user base that has the necessary hardware and is going to fork out the money to pay for that is lacking, it makes good financial sense to wait.
                        • 9. Re: Reasons for PPCS3 not to be 64bit
                          Jim_Simon Level 8
                          But King, without the software, the user base will never grow. That's why I think it will take some serious outlay with the idea that it will eventually pay off. That's the way technology works. Sony and Phillips laid out plenty developing CDs, and it payed off big time. You take a chance, I know, but again, as the worlds second largest software company, Adobe is in a better position than anyone to take that chance.

                          Adobe should start now writing 64 bit versions of their entire lineup, with the idea that in the future, we'll all be using a 64 bit OS. The time for this has definitely come.
                          • 10. Re: Reasons for PPCS3 not to be 64bit
                            Curt Wrigley Level 4
                            How do you know they are not?

                            Certainly the base requirement for such a port would be a stable 64bit OS. Im in no hurry to install Vista, are you?

                            Curt
                            • 11. Re: Reasons for PPCS3 not to be 64bit
                              Jeron Coolman Level 1
                              I wonder how many people are out there, that are running Premiere Pro on computer that can't run a 64bit operating system?
                              • 12. Re: Reasons for PPCS3 not to be 64bit
                                Jim_Simon Level 8
                                CPUs and mobos have been ready for a 64 bit environment for quite a number of years now. I don't think you can buy a current computer or CPU that won't run a 64 bit OS. It seems unlikely that anyone is running CS3 on a system than can't be upgraded without changing hardware.

                                And if it meant 64 bit native versions of Adobe apps, you bet your *** I'd upgrade to Vista 64. One forum member already claims to be getting performance improvements in Vista 64 over XP 32 on a dual-boot system, where the hardware environments are as identical as you can get.
                                • 13. Re: Reasons for PPCS3 not to be 64bit
                                  Jeron Coolman Level 1
                                  I agree that you can't buy a current computer or CPU that won't run a 64 bit OS.

                                  At the very least, the minimum requirements would have to change to something higher than a Pentium 4 1.4 GHZ :)
                                  • 14. Re: Reasons for PPCS3 not to be 64bit
                                    h2ofun Level 1
                                    Well, I just dumped vista and have gone back to XP X64.
                                    Wonder how tests of xp vs Xp X64 would go.

                                    Dave
                                    • 15. Re: Reasons for PPCS3 not to be 64bit
                                      Level 1
                                      >It is not possible to do a port of a 32-bit application
                                      to a 64-bit one. Adobe personal have stated that it can't be done it
                                      requires at total rewrite of the program in question and that isn't a simple or quick task and certainly not something Adobe is going to do for those playing at 64-bit. Too many other things have to happen before they will do it. Hardware support, driver support, consumer support, etc.

                                      Programmers have done ports to 64 bit programs for the past several years in Windows. It does not require a "total rewrite". I'm estimating ~99% of the code doesn't require any changes. Getting 64 bit hardware drivers that work as well as their 32 bit equivalents (or even getting a 64 bit driver at all) seems to be the major hangup to 64 bit Windows. The 64 bit drivers are a Microsoft/hardware manufacturer problem.
                                      • 16. Re: Reasons for PPCS3 not to be 64bit
                                        Level 1
                                        Let me provide an analogy...

                                        Sony, as a company designs, builds and manufactures 'domestic' products. They sell these products to a very large number of people.

                                        Sony also designs, builds and manufactures very specialist products like HDCAM machines. They sell these to a very limited number of people. But they do it AND get their money back. Why?.... glad you asked...

                                        There is a market out there and they price accordingly. Now lets bring that perspective back to Adobe; make a 64 bit version of ALL their products and charge a 'professional rate'. People who want to use their software in a more efficient way would pay more to do so. Otherwise, returning to the earlier analogy, we would be mastering out to VHS tape and the broadcasters would be transmitting off VHS tape.

                                        And just changing back to an earlier mention of "total rewrite of the software" - it may be 'total' but it certainly doesn't include the need to think the whole process thru - thats already done; its just a matter of 'speaking a different language' whereas a poem is a poem in English and for it to be in French it doesn't have to be thought out, just translated.

                                        Baz
                                        • 17. Re: Reasons for PPCS3 not to be 64bit
                                          Jim_Simon Level 8
                                          Even Microsoft charges the same for 64 bit versions of their OS. It's a pricing model consumers, even professional consumers, have come to expect. I don't think a price premium for 64 bit versions is the answer.

                                          I still think Adobe needs to bite the bullet and, as Nike says, just do it.
                                          • 18. Re: Reasons for PPCS3 not to be 64bit
                                            ArrrBee Level 1
                                            <John_Uchida@adobeforums.com> wrote in message <br />news:3c058aaa.14@webcrossing.la2eafNXanI...<br />><br />><br />>      It is not possible to do a port of a 32-bit application to a 64-bit <br />> one.<br />>      Adobe personal have stated that it can't be done it<br />>      requires at total rewrite of the program in question and that isn't a<br />>      simple or quick task and certainly not something Adobe is going to do<br />>      for those playing at 64-bit. Too many other things have to happen <br />> before<br />>      they will do it. Hardware support, driver support, consumer support, <br />> etc.<br />><br />><br />><br />><br />><br />> Programmers have done ports to 64 bit programs for the past several years <br />> in Windows. It does not require a "total rewrite". I'm estimating ~99% of <br />> the code doesn't require any changes. Getting 64 bit hardware drivers that <br />> work as well as their 32 bit equivalents (or even getting a 64 bit driver <br />> at all) seems to be the major hangup to 64 bit Windows. The 64 bit drivers <br />> are a Microsoft/hardware manufacturer problem.<br /><br /><br />I can only tell what Adobe has said on the matter. To do it right it isn't a <br />port.<br /><br />Robert<br /><br />-- <br />If stupid was fruit, Washington D.C. would be an orchard!
                                            • 19. Re: Reasons for PPCS3 not to be 64bit
                                              Jim_Simon Level 8
                                              I can understand what Robert is talking about. Yes, 32 bit applications can be ported to work in a 64 bit environment, but that's not what I really want from Premiere. That's not what will really benefit an NLE.

                                              The whole code, from the ground up, needs to be able to work with and in a 64 bit environment, working with larger data chunks, getting more work done in the same amount of time. That kind of thing is probably more than few code tweaks here and there, and if done right would not be backwards compatible with a 32 bit OS.
                                              • 20. Re: Reasons for PPCS3 not to be 64bit
                                                (Redgum) Level 1
                                                Yes! Adobe will get there one day - like the giant sloth it is - cruise into port mumbling and grumbling that the opposition got two years start on them. Of course there is no need for them to port all their products to x64. The video stable are the main contenders with programs like Dreamweaver and other Net programs very content at x32.
                                                Maybe Adobe could borrow the Sony development team for a while. Sony has built 14 new cameras this year just in the Pro field and Adobe is still "bugging" around.
                                                I guess Adobe is trying to get their 32 bit stuff working first before attempting an upscale.
                                                • 21. Re: Reasons for PPCS3 not to be 64bit
                                                  Level 1
                                                  But isn't MAC OS 64bit, and if Adobe bothered to port to OSX + 64bit I'm sure they would easily ported PP3 to 64bit for windoze.
                                                  But just think logically. Nowdays you have hard time to even dig out XP, and for Vista you need 2Gb of RAM just to use your regular Office apps, and than you load APP3 and you can't even upgrade RAM any more (ok extra 500MBs works). I still believe that average APP user is rather advanced, and wouldn't be bothered using XP64 or Vista64, and has nothing to do with being pro user. 64bit in not pro its mainstream, just MS doesn't push it.
                                                  I tell you when they will push it. Soon, Very soon, as soon as they will want to sell more RAM to users, since 2Gb is standard nowdays, so next step it has to be 64bit (luckily)
                                                  Regarding bugs=> there are plenty in 32bit version of APP even if its very mature product.
                                                  I think it's pathetic (sorry) for promoting Xeons/Opterons/Phenoms... dual quad cores...bla.bla.bla. and who needs suchs computers CAD,Graphics designers and Video Editing, so you want to push your APP3 and buy dual quad core Xeon with 16Gb of RAM and install Vista32bit and APP3??? It looks in this case you probably need to migrate to OSX (you'd probably be fine now when Jobs finally invented right click :)))
                                                  • 22. Re: Reasons for PPCS3 not to be 64bit
                                                    Level 1
                                                    I bet that all you boys, defending "no need for 64bit" probably write these posts while waiting APP to encode your sequences.

                                                    You wait (5%completed), you wait (7%completed), you watch TV(34%completed, you go out for a beer(89%completed),oh no wait some more(91%completed), ok write some posts:)

                                                    No hard feelings :)

                                                    btw, there are many gadget guys who spend money on latest/greatest hardware and they pretend they need it for something more than playing games, so APP is perfect application to excuse your wife a need for such expense :), but you endup with "I'm sorry this application is not supported in 64bit..not supports more than 2.5Gb of RAM...suggested at least 2GB of RAM..2Core or more 3GHz or more processor..

                                                    well at least it works great/fast editing on the time line in native hdv format even on average laptop which is a +++
                                                    • 23. Re: Reasons for PPCS3 not to be 64bit
                                                      Level 1
                                                      > I think it's pathetic (sorry) for promoting Xeons/Opterons/Phenoms... dual quad cores...bla.bla.bla. and who needs suchs computers

                                                      Why is it pathetic to want faster export times, and faster decoding times and an all round faster PC?

                                                      Wanna try edit 2k on a 486?
                                                      • 24. Re: Reasons for PPCS3 not to be 64bit
                                                        ArrrBee Level 1
                                                        Here is an interesting post from Adobe on when 64-bit.

                                                        http://blogs.adobe.com/scottbyer/2006/12/64_bitswhen.html

                                                        It deals with Photoshop but the basics are going to be the same for a video
                                                        editor as well.

                                                        Robert
                                                        • 25. Re: Reasons for PPCS3 not to be 64bit
                                                          (Redgum) Level 1
                                                          Thanks Robert. That article answers many questions. Always good to have quality information. My level of understanding has increased substantially.
                                                          John
                                                          • 26. Re: Reasons for PPCS3 not to be 64bit
                                                            Level 1
                                                            > Here is an interesting post from Adobe on when 64-bit.
                                                            >
                                                            > http://blogs.adobe.com/scottbyer/2006/12/64_bitswhen.html

                                                            Thanks for posting this link. The information in this link addresses memory
                                                            bandwidth, QA testing, simultateous support for two binaries, and market
                                                            size, and is more informative and particularly more accurate than your
                                                            previous remarks, "It is not possible to do a port of a 32-bit application
                                                            to a 64-bit one. Adobe personal have stated that it can't be done it
                                                            requires at total rewrite of the program ...".

                                                            Best,
                                                            Christopher
                                                            • 27. Re: Reasons for PPCS3 not to be 64bit
                                                              ArrrBee Level 1
                                                              <christopherglaeser@adobeforums.com> wrote in message <br />news:4843C1E95C96B07FD50767E8C8121618@in.webcrossing.la2eafNXanI...<br />>> Here is an interesting post from Adobe on when 64-bit.<br />>><br />>> http://blogs.adobe.com/scottbyer/2006/12/64_bitswhen.html<br />><br />> Thanks for posting this link.  The information in this link addresses <br />> memory bandwidth, QA testing, simultateous support for two binaries, and <br />> market size, and is more informative and particularly more accurate than <br />> your previous remarks, "It is not possible to do a port of a 32-bit <br />> application to a 64-bit one. Adobe personal have stated that it can't be <br />> done it requires at total rewrite of the program ...".<br />><br />> Best,<br />> Christopher<br />><br />><br /><br />My earlier statements we from comments made by Chris Cox. He is very well <br />known in the Photoshop forum of being... basic with his posts. The link I <br />posted goes in to more information, but doesn't do a whole lot of change <br />what I said Adobe has said.<br /><br />Either way 64-bit applications will happen when Adobe feels there is a large <br />enough market to warrant the work needed. And, I do believe we can all agree <br />that we would like the 64-bit applications to be done right and not <br />half-assed.<br /><br />Robert<br /><br />-- <br />If stupid was fruit, Washington D.C. would be an orchard!
                                                              • 28. Re: Reasons for PPCS3 not to be 64bit
                                                                Jim_Simon Level 8
                                                                >64-bit applications will happen when Adobe feels there is a large
                                                                enough market to warrant the work needed.

                                                                Problem is there may never be a large enough market until Adobe makes the 64 bit apps. Having a 64 bit editing suite will be the very reason a lot of folks make the switch. But having problems running the current 32 bit suite on a 64 bit OS is very good reason not to switch first.
                                                                • 29. Re: Reasons for PPCS3 not to be 64bit
                                                                  (Redgum) Level 1
                                                                  Hi Jim, only some people have problems running 32x applications on 64x O/ses. Many others find it OK or even better. Depends a lot on setup.
                                                                  John
                                                                  • 30. Re: Reasons for PPCS3 not to be 64bit
                                                                    Level 1
                                                                    > doesn't do a whole lot of change what I said ...

                                                                    The link you posted includes this exchange:
                                                                    Jim Collier: "I'm getting pretty sick of paying for expensive upgrades
                                                                    seemingly every year with minimal new functionality per dollar. I could use
                                                                    a good break while you guys rewrite the application from the ground up."

                                                                    Scott Byer replies: "I hear you. No worries, it won't require a re-write."

                                                                    and you wrote: "It is not possible to do a port of a 32-bit application to a
                                                                    64-bit one. Adobe personal have stated that it can't be done it requires at
                                                                    total rewrite of the program ..."

                                                                    Please post a link where Adobe says it is not possible to port from 32-bit
                                                                    to 64-bit and requires a total rewrite.

                                                                    Best,
                                                                    Christopher
                                                                    • 31. Re: Reasons for PPCS3 not to be 64bit
                                                                      Jim_Simon Level 8
                                                                      >only some people have problems running 32x applications on 64x O/ses.

                                                                      Point is, it does happen, and frequently. Until it doesn't happen, most folks will be in a 32 bit environment. So either the current versions start working as flawlessly (without patches or tweaks) in both environments, or Adobe takes the first step by making the port with the idea that such an outlay will eventually pay off.
                                                                      • 32. Re: Reasons for PPCS3 not to be 64bit
                                                                        Phil Griffith Level 2
                                                                        I noticed that the blog post was from almost a year ago. A lot of improvements have been made since then. There are now drivers for all of the devices I use in my system. Graphics, scanner, etc. admittedly, there are some that still need to be done, but they are moving in that direction. I think at this point, it is mostly software that is holding back now. Microsoft has a 64 bit version of ie 7 but it is one of the very few. I am forever going back to 32 bit version to see adobe flash graphics on web sites. Still, there is hope for the future.
                                                                        • 33. Re: Reasons for PPCS3 not to be 64bit
                                                                          Level 1
                                                                          Robert Barnett wrote:
                                                                          >> It is not possible to do a port of a 32-bit application to a 64-bit one.

                                                                          John Uchida wrote:
                                                                          > Programmers have done ports to 64 bit programs for the past several years
                                                                          > in Windows. It does not require a "total rewrite".

                                                                          Agreed. I'm guessing there was either a misunderstanding or someone
                                                                          overstated the difficutly of the port. Yes, there are major obstacles such
                                                                          as support for multiple binaries, additional QA testing, additional customer
                                                                          support to resolve problems with other apps and drivers, etc, but a complete
                                                                          rewrite from scratch is unlikely.

                                                                          FWIW, I began writing compilers for supercomputers and large address spaces
                                                                          in 1977. I wrote technical white papers on porting to 64 bit address spaces
                                                                          before some of the participants of this forum were born. Which is to say,
                                                                          this is not a new problem.

                                                                          Best,
                                                                          Christopher
                                                                          • 34. Re: Reasons for PPCS3 not to be 64bit
                                                                            (Redgum) Level 1
                                                                            G'day Jim, you said "Point is, it does happen, and frequently. Until it doesn't happen, most folks will be in a 32 bit environment".
                                                                            Microsoft get twice as many help calls now as they did twelve months ago and you can bet 99% are about x32bit O/S's. There are flaws in all O/S's that need work around their entire life. Adobe can't and shouldn't use that excuse NOT to produce for a market.
                                                                            I don't feel (in fact I know)that I don't have any more problems with x64 systems over x32 systems after building more than twenty systems in the last year. Mind you, they're specialist editing set-ups and my blokes don't have any need for games or other non-editing software.
                                                                            What I've found is operational problems. Guys have been use to XP 32bit for years and now have a new learning curve with Vista x64. They get there eventually, and believe me, are really happy.
                                                                            John
                                                                            www.redgumtv.com.au
                                                                            • 35. Re: Reasons for PPCS3 not to be 64bit
                                                                              Jim_Simon Level 8
                                                                              >Mind you, they're specialist editing set-ups

                                                                              That's kind of what I was talking about. It seems unlikely that a lot of Premier users will be switching over to a 64 bit environment for use with Adobe's current 32 bit apps until and unless they work just as well in the 64 bit world as they do for the myriad 32 bit setups.

                                                                              Rather, it seems much more likely those folks will not make the switch until they have to because the Adobe Suite requires a 64 bit OS.
                                                                              • 36. Re: Reasons for PPCS3 not to be 64bit
                                                                                (Redgum) Level 1
                                                                                Jim, I've found that many people running Adobe CS3 under Vista x64 forget to turn on DEP (Data Execution Prevention) and add programs like Premiere,Photoshop and Encore. DEP identifies applications as x32bit and removes many of the problems associated with start-up etc.
                                                                                John
                                                                                • 37. Re: Reasons for PPCS3 not to be 64bit
                                                                                  Level 1
                                                                                  >Howard wrote:
                                                                                  >Why is it pathetic to want faster export times, and faster decoding >times and an all round faster PC?

                                                                                  >Wanna try edit 2k on a 486?

                                                                                  You misquoted me I didn't say it's pathetic to come out with latests CPU, but it's pathetic that software companies don't come out with software to use such CPUs.
                                                                                  Tell me how you are going to use dual quad xeon with 16Gb of RAM in APP. How much you will gain encoding comparing to regual 2core 3GHz.

                                                                                  It's pathetic in the first place that Vista is 32 bit at all. Why torture people to upgrade to new OS with missing drivers/software support, tons of bugs and have it 32bit.

                                                                                  Someone tell me what is a harder step Upgrade XP to Vista or XP to 64XP. As nowdays you can hardly buy XP/XP64 you're forced to adjust Vista. And who, with a little glue, would upgrade to Vista32bit, voluntarely, especially if he wants to do some graphics and video editing.

                                                                                  No one responded to APP3 for Mac OSX. Is it 64bit or not? Was that not possible to port either?
                                                                                  • 38. Re: Reasons for PPCS3 not to be 64bit
                                                                                    Level 1
                                                                                    excactly as Jim Simon said:
                                                                                    >Problem is there may never be a large enough market until Adobe makes >the 64 bit apps. Having a 64 bit editing suite will be the very reason >a lot of folks make the switch.

                                                                                    CAD Software is getting there, now it's up to graphics and Video Editing, then majority of people will move.

                                                                                    You will see a day after Adobe will port to 64bit, they will claim that anyone considering serious work must migrate to 64bit..Adobe is committed to latest technology...
                                                                                    • 39. Re: Reasons for PPCS3 not to be 64bit
                                                                                      Level 1
                                                                                      >but it's pathetic that software companies don't come out with software to use such CPUs.

                                                                                      PPRO CS3 can use 16 cores...

                                                                                      As for the RAM issue well that is why this thread is up...
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