23 Replies Latest reply on Dec 19, 2008 2:42 AM by (birwin)

    Export to tape: still the same old problem

      Hi.
      I wrote here some months ago about a problem that actually is frustrating more user than I expected since no solution seems to come out.
      I edit my job and need to export to tape. Premiere renders the job for several hours and then start recording to tape. After 5-7 minutes recording suddenly stops and the camera says "firewire problems, check the cable". Of course I have no connection problems! Reading the pages over the internet it looks like it's Premiere who has a problem as no other nle is afflicted like that. Many users have the same problems but no solutions seems to come out.
      Hope someone can help this time.
      My camera is a canon HV20.

      Thanks a lot.

      Bye.
        • 1. Re: Export to tape: still the same old problem
          shooternz Level 6
          How long is your project?

          I assume you are recording via F/W to your camera?

          Is the camera on mains power or battery power? Does it have a power saver mode?

          Are you using external drives to export from?

          Is this a desktop or laptop computer?

          YOu have not supplied a lot of details and I have never read of many others with the same issue.
          • 2. Re: Export to tape: still the same old problem
            Level 1
            Thanks for reply.
            My project is 23 minutes long;
            I'm recording via firewire;
            The camera is on mains power;
            The drives are internal and configured in raid0 mode;
            I have a desktop computer (Intel Core 2 Duo 6700, 2 GB ram).

            Surfing the web I read at least other 2-3 issues like mine but no solution has been posted.

            Can you help me solve the problem?

            Thanks again, bye.
            • 3. Re: Export to tape: still the same old problem
              shooternz Level 6
              Several hours rendering for 23 minute program seems very long to me but what ever...

              Have you tried exporting to movie first then exporting the 'movie' to tape?

              Only other suggestion - fit a new F/W port to your computer. I can not see how Premiere can "create" a Firewire problem and its more likely a hardware issue.

              It's strange the "F/W" error message shows on the camera.
              • 4. Re: Export to tape: still the same old problem
                Level 1
                I record in HDV and HDV takes much more time to render...
                How can I export to movie first and then exporting to tape using Premiere?
                I don't think it's a hardware problem. Months ago, when I first posted this problem, I used another pc and another firewire port and had the same problem.
                The message on the camera is strange and it seem like no data is sent after 6-7 minutes.
                I found another post who describes the same problem that I'm having so you can realize it's not so rare... :)
                http://www.adobeforums.com/webx/.3bc3fa9d

                Surfing the web it seems this problem affects Premiere Pro only and not other nle like vegas final cut and so on so I think it's a Premiere pro problem but don't understand why it can't be solved...

                Other ideas?

                Thanks, bye.
                • 5. Re: Export to tape: still the same old problem
                  shooternz Level 6
                  HDV..... ah ha... every time HDV comes up in these forums it appears to be problematic. I dont know much about it but...

                  Is it not possible? Export>Movie (when using HDV)

                  Seems that you are exporting the HDV timeline direct to tape and the camera is losing the F/W connection while rendering (which still seems to be a very long render process for some other reason).

                  I shoot HD16:9 (Panasonic HVX202) eg 720p and can simply export a movie from the timeline without additional compression. From this movie I chose any other export encode of my choice using Media Encoder or QT Pro. I do not export HD to tape because I do not have a HD tape deck. I deliver as a HD QT file.

                  BTW: I can render 20 minutes of HD720p in about 5-10 minutes.
                  • 6. Re: Export to tape: still the same old problem
                    Level 1
                    >HDV..... ah ha... every time HDV comes up in these forums it appears to be problematic

                    Why else would they post?
                    • 7. Re: Export to tape: still the same old problem
                      Phil Griffith Level 2
                      If you get this issue with different computers then what is the common thread? Premiere and your camera. I have not seen much in here from others with this problem. Could it be your camera?
                      • 8. Re: Export to tape: still the same old problem
                        Level 1
                        For Craig Howard: sorry but... are you a Premiere user? How can I export a movie and then export it to tape in two different steps??? I used vers. Pro 2 and now using vers. CS3 but none can do that. The process is: Premiere renders all the timeline first, and then (and only then), once the rendered file has been created, export it to tape.
                        My render is "so long" because I use to do post-production on my movies and they are rich in color correction, gamma curve, luma, ecc. It would takes few minutes if I only put my footage on the timeline with no effect so it's no so strange it takes 2-3 hours to render that kind of movie in HDV resolution!

                        For Phil Griffith: hi and thanks for reply. Have you read the words of other users at the link I posted before? http://www.adobeforums.com/webx/.3bc3fa9d
                        Do read post 7,8,9: they tell of the same identical problem using Premeire pro, export to tape stops after 5-6 minutes but the camera is an H1 so I don't think it could be my camera.

                        It's harder than I expected...

                        Thanks again and hope you can help me find out what the problem is...
                        • 9. Re: Export to tape: still the same old problem
                          Harm Millaard Level 7
                          If memory serves me correctly, all instances like yours have one common denominator: CANON cameras. I would contact Canon to see if they can help.
                          • 10. Re: Export to tape: still the same old problem
                            I wrote the following already somewhere else in this forum.
                            I am experiencing the same problem as Myksto since August-2007 on two different PCs, one running XP-Pro SP2, the other running Vista Ultimate: exporting to tape stops after 7-9 minutes with a short message on the camera display: "Check DV/HDV Input". I also have the Canon XH A1, but for those who argue that this is a Canon problem only, here is my work around, that demonstrates that the PPro created file for exporting to tape flawlesly runs on Sony Vegas (7.0 and 8.0) and exports 60 minutes without any problem back to the XH A1.
                            Here is what I do:
                            - Completely edit project in PPro CS3
                            - Connect camera and insert write protected tape
                            - in PPro go to File > Export > Tape and hit OK
                            - After rendering is complete, the recording will start but immediately stop and send error message: "tape write protected" (Note: you may want to not write protect the tape, then recording will start and stop after 7-9 minutes with the same error message)
                            - On the still open window do not click "Done" but first rename the file "HDVExport.hdv2", generated by PPro into something like xxxx_Export to Tape.m2t. This file is typically stored in the Project folder
                            - Close Premiere CS3
                            - Start Sony Vegas. I use 7.0, which is now available for a reasonable price after ver. 8.0 is out
                            - Go to Tools > Print Video to HDV Tape
                            - Under device you will see your camera (in my case Canon XH A1); HIT Next
                            - On the next window under Use an existing file select the file xxxx_Export to Tape.m2t and hit Next
                            - In the upcoming window select Crash Recording and click Finish
                            - The camera will start and run through like a charm

                            I have discussed this issue with both, Canon and Adobe help desks in Europe without any positive outcome, and have given up on it, hoping that sometime Adobe have fixed this problem, preferably together with Canon.
                            • 11. Re: Export to tape: still the same old problem
                              Level 1
                              BINGO!!!
                              I tried your workaround and it works perfectly!!!
                              I'm too happy to finally have found the solution to a problem that had become very frustrating.
                              So the problem is in Premiere Pro, no doubt!
                              Doens't Adobe know about this issue??? They should setup a patch to fix this problem.

                              Klaus, I really don't know how to thank you, you're great!

                              Bye, Michele.
                              • 12. Re: Export to tape: still the same old problem
                                Level 1
                                Michele,
                                Good to see that it worked for you as well. As I mentioned I talked to the Adobe hotline in Europe but there were only the usual recommendations they had to offer which are based on their assumption that the customer doesn't really know what he/she is doing. They did not comment on the fact that Sony Vegas can simply get the job done.
                                The best would be to see Adobe and Canon software developers sitting together and solve the problem, but it looks like that that is a dream. Remember, the XH A1 is not even on the Adobe compatibility list. As Vegas 8.0 I bought Vegas 7.0 for ~60 USD through an auction. That is acceptable but doesn't improve CS3. Maybe there will be a fix in the not too distant future.
                                Klaus
                                • 13. Re: Export to tape: still the same old problem
                                  Hi,
                                  I'm hoping you guys on this discussion can help me. I'm also trying to get an hdv project back onto my HV20. Problem is that the render (transcoding to HDV) stops after about 25 mintutes. That is, it does not seem to make it to the point of actually trying to write to the camera. After about 25 minutes premiere just pops up the "Export to HDV" dialog again with the two options "Render" or "Done". So I'm guessing this is not the same as the problem you guys are discussing where the recording to HV20 actually starts and then stops after a few minutes of recording.

                                  My project is 35min long. I'm working in the MJPEG codec of blackmagic so I can preview my timeline on the HDTV from the intensity card. I'm running PP CS3 3.1.1 on a quadcore with 3 Gigs of RAM under vista.

                                  If this problem seems familiar and you can point me in the right direction it would be great.

                                  ...Lou
                                  • 14. Re: Export to tape: still the same old problem
                                    Level 1
                                    Hi Lou,
                                    for sure that is a different case. I remember I had something maybe similar but after a re boot of the PC and a new start it was ok. - Sorry that I cannot help you.
                                    Klaus
                                    • 15. Re: Export to tape: still the same old problem
                                      Jeron Coolman Level 1
                                      Have you guys tried using Adobe Media Encoder to output the M2T file, then use that to print to tape with Vegas?

                                      It might be a little more clean than messing around with a write protected tape and letting the Premiere Pro print to tape error out.
                                      • 16. Re: Export to tape: still the same old problem
                                        Level 1
                                        Jeron, no I haven't done that. My best guess is that it will work. As I wrote under the note: "you may want to not write protect the tape, then recording will start and stop after 7-9 minutes with the same error message." That will take only 7-9 minutes longer for the whole process than with the write protected the tape.
                                        • 17. Re: Export to tape: still the same old problem
                                          Level 1
                                          Thanks for that response Klaus,

                                          I've tried numerous reboots etc. Even reinstalled all the software and updates but no changes. I cannot adopt your workflow since the render freezes so I'm thinking the best was is to render out the project the project time line to some intermediate file and then create a Vegas project from that render. What would you guys think is the most lossless render options (codec) to use as an intermediate to move from Premiere to Vegas? It could be my render is tripping up since I'm using the blackmagic MJPEG codec. Vegas now also supports blackmagic intensity so I would like to find the best way to render out the PP CS3 stuff and transfer it all to Vegas. The alternative is to go to the raw footage and re-edit in Vegas, but that would throw away at least a month of work.

                                          ...Lou
                                          • 18. Re: Export to tape: still the same old problem
                                            Level 1
                                            I would render out using the Adobe Media Encoder set to MPEG2, 1440 x 1081i 25 (PAL)or 29,97 (NTSC) High Quality, Quality turned up to 5, VBR 2 pass, Min & Target & Max bitrates all set to 25 Mbps and leave all the other parameters at the preset values. I must emphazise that I haven't done that myself. I am just saying that this is what I would try as a start.
                                            Klaus
                                            • 19. Re: Export to tape: still the same old problem
                                              shooternz Level 6
                                              @myksto

                                              "For Craig Howard: sorry but... are you a Premiere user? How can I export a movie and then export it to tape in two different steps??? "

                                              I am a long ,long time user of Adobe Premiere (like first ever version) and currently have both Platforms running it. I use it professionally in the post production of Television Commercials.

                                              I assure you it is possible to Export a Movie. (avi or QT) This is different to Export to Tape (Print to Tape) and different to using Adobe Media Encoder. Export to Movie uses the Project Settings.

                                              I always Export to Movie (Un recompressed) and this is my finished "Master" from which I can produce whatever I need. This means render once (big time saver) and output freely from thereon.

                                              I can then bring the "Master" movie back into a timeline or an Encoder or QTPro or Encore or Audition etc....
                                              • 20. Re: Export to tape: still the same old problem
                                                Very similar trbl - to exasperate !!!!

                                                I like to bring a ready HD project back to a tape ( for back up ), normally, not a problem i do this a many years with DV projects. Now i fight several weeks with a HD project (60 Min) to bring at to a Tape The Computer is rendering and playing ( after rendering ) also prompt out to the tape the error is that the ready tape has dropouts ( different times most every 5 min. ) or stuck for a second.
                                                I call Adobe Customer Support Germany ( I am a German ):
                                                The first professional: you must use a 800er fire wire cable, this is the problem
                                                The second professional: the Matrox RT.X2 work not together with APP Production Studio Premium CS3 and is not supported from Adobe we have many trbl with this Card.

                                                To get rid of so !!!!!!! I think this was a joke !!!!!! I dont feel happy about it !!!!!!!!

                                                My System is only for work for Video no other software is installs no other Programmes running no virus scanner no screen saver, and so on.

                                                2,4 GH Dual Core 2
                                                4 GB Ram
                                                1 TB Raid System for Video
                                                Nvidia 8800 GTS
                                                Matrox RT.X2 ( Version 3.1)
                                                APP Production Studio Premium CS3
                                                Camcorder :Sony FX7,HC7 und Walkman GV HD 700 ( with all units the same failure )
                                                I use only Tapes from Sony (Digital HD Video) and I tested with empty tapes and with tapes
                                                with a times code .

                                                Best rgds from Germany and sorry for my deficient English

                                                Manfred
                                                • 21. Re: Export to tape: still the same old problem
                                                  Bad Habit Pictures Level 1
                                                  I posted this elsewhere but I have the same issue and it IS NOT Premiere related because it happens on every piece of software I tried.

                                                  I rented an HV20 to capture some 24F HD footage given to me to edit. I had no problem capturing any of the 24F or 30/60i tapes.

                                                  When I tried to Export to Tape from the PPro timeline, the transcode succeeds but the actual export dies in the manner described in this thread.

                                                  In PPro after anywhere from 6-8 minutes to as longs as 20-30 minutes, the HV20 will stop recording (even though Premiere is still outputting) and display the error message: "HDV-IN Signal Lost. Check Connection"

                                                  In Ulead Video Studio the camera displays the error message: "Check the HDV/DV Input".

                                                  Using HD Link to export the M2T files (saved and renamed from the PPro transcode process) the camera displays the same error message: "Check the HDV/DV Input".

                                                  In all instances the software kept outputting the data stream and the camera failed to completely record it.
                                                  What baffles me is that the Canon camera DOES record the output for a while then seems to quit after anywhere from 6 to 20 odd minutes and NEVER at the same exact time or frame.
                                                  I used 3 different 6-pin connectors to make sure it was not a cable related issue and attempted exports of half a dozen different projects to eliminate the possibility of individual errors within a project.

                                                  The kicker... the exact same projects exported without a single flaw or hesitation to a Sony V1u.

                                                  Googling shows this to be a big issue for this camera. Even some FCP/Mac people have complained about it. I can only surmise that it has something to do with a proprietary aspect of the Canon HV20 [I don't know how much of this is fact but apparently the cheap SOBs didn't want to pay the license fees for the same codecs that every other HDV camcorder uses, hence the "F" pull down unique to Canon].
                                                  Whether the same issue exists in all 4 of the Canon HD models I can only assume, but my experience with the HV20 has forever turned me off as a Canon enthusiast.
                                                  Regardless of superior picture or audio quality, if it cannot function seamlessly with all aspects of the technology I use, then it is useless to me.

                                                  My System:
                                                  Alienware dual 2.8 Zeon
                                                  WinXP SP2
                                                  4G RAM
                                                  (3) 250G Internal 7200 IDE RAID0
                                                  NVidia GForce
                                                  CS3 Production Bundle
                                                  All Software Updates Current
                                                  • 22. Re: Export to tape: still the same old problem
                                                    Level 1
                                                    Jerry,

                                                    Great troubleshooting, but I'm still not entirely convinced. If the file was created Premiere Pro the problem could still be inheirant to Premiere Pro. If you capture and edit the source clips in some other application and then export to tape from that app (and still have trouble) then I'd agree. Of course if it works fine, then your theory kind of falls away.

                                                    There are enough of these reports out there and with a variety of Sony and Canon cameras that I suspect that Premiere may still have a hand in buggering it up. HDV MT2 files are pretty stinking tricky to get right. FCP and AVID both also have trouble with them (AVID in particular. I can never seem to get any HDV file to work right there). The only app that I've seen behave consistently well with HDV files is Sony Vegas. Vegas has so many other problems though that I go nearly insane every time I try to use it.

                                                    So if you really want to check your troubleshooting, download a trial version of Vegas and test the workflow again. As I said, if it fails there, I'm behind you 100%. I'd expect that Adobe will eventually get this right even if the problem turns out not to be theirs. They've been really proactive with the dot releases for this version and they have staff and engineers that regularly monitor this forum. With as many times as this issue has been discussed here, I gotta think they've got someone looking at it.
                                                    • 23. Re: Export to tape: still the same old problem
                                                      Klaus,
                                                      I have just tried your Vegas solution on my Canon HV20. I downloaded a trial version of Platinum and following your instructions it worked perfectly. I was able to record a 30 minute tape. The problem is undoubtably in Premiere.
                                                      Many thanks for this workaround. I had spent a week trying various methods before, none of which worked. The tape always stopped after about 6 minutes