1 2 3 Previous Next 82 Replies Latest reply on Mar 7, 2008 3:38 AM by (Adrian_South)

    To Wil Renczes (or someone else at Adobe)

    ytlevine Level 1
      Are they going to add an "Edit in Audition" function (either an option to change the edit in SB to Audition, or an additional option)?
        • 1. Re: To Wil Renczes (or someone else at Adobe)
          Harm Millaard Level 7
          This has been requested since august, but no progress yet. Adobe's wheels are turning very ssllloooowwwwlllyyy!

          Look here: http://www.adobeforums.com/webx/.3bc49f6e/12
          • 2. Re: To Wil Renczes (or someone else at Adobe)
            ytlevine Level 1
            I know - I just wanted to know if they have plans to implement it.
            • 3. Re: To Wil Renczes (or someone else at Adobe)
              Level 1
              We have a feature request logged for this enhancement; our feature list for CS4 is already locked down though, and this one's not on the agenda.

              For my curiosity: what exactly are you doing to your sound bites that makes you want to use Audition over SoundBooth?

              Cheers
              • 4. Re: To Wil Renczes (or someone else at Adobe)
                Level 1
                Thanks for your response Wil. Is there any chance you can give us an idea of what will be added for CS4?

                Thanks!
                • 5. Re: To Wil Renczes (or someone else at Adobe)
                  Harm Millaard Level 7
                  That is disappointing news Wil, especially since this feature request has been filed numerous times since august last year and since it is so easy to implement, it was taken out, so how hard would it be to put it in again?

                  Soundbooth is much too limited for serious work, no multi channel for one.

                  It is IMO a confirmation that Adobe shows the same arrogance that Micros**t displays and behave as if it is bad business to listen to customers.

                  The most surprising about this is that one or more Adobe personnel have supported the feature request and filed it themselves. Is it the intention of Adobe to disregard feature requests from clients and their own personnel in the future and expect clients to wait for CS9 for it to be implemented?
                  • 6. Re: To Wil Renczes (or someone else at Adobe)
                    Level 1
                    I think the question to Mr. Renczes is...

                    1. Why are we being restricted to using SoundBooth from Premiere?

                    This is Premiere "Pro" isn't it? Or are you guys going to what I've seen other companies do...

                    Premiere "Pro" will become Premiere "Standard" by removing some features, then and you'll come out with a new Premiere "Pro" with the features put back in and sell it for more than the old Premiere Pro. Premiere Elements will disappear or become the "Starter" version or is it already.

                    The email server software manufacturer I'm using did just that. They sold one version - an "Enterprise" version - for years. Then they surprised us all by turning the "Enterprise" version into the "Standard" version by removing some features forcing us, or as they put it - offering an upgrade, to the new "Enterprise" version with the features put back in at a higher cost.
                    • 7. Re: To Wil Renczes (or someone else at Adobe)
                      Jim_Simon Level 8
                      >what exactly are you doing to your sound bites that makes you want to use Audition over SoundBooth?

                      One possibility is editing the left and right channels individually, rather than as a whole. Of course, an upgrade to Soundbooth could also allow that.
                      • 8. Re: To Wil Renczes (or someone else at Adobe)
                        ytlevine Level 1
                        I, for one, also do professional audio work and loved Audition - the feel, the control, the interface, etc. I'm just not used to a lower end program and if I can do it in Audition, I can do it a lot faster and a lot better b/c I know the program.
                        • 9. Re: To Wil Renczes (or someone else at Adobe)
                          Level 1
                          >CS4 is already locked down though, and this one's not on the agenda.

                          Man, of all the things to put on the back burner. Do you know how easy this would be for the coders to implement?

                          Once upon a time I had multi-track capabilities with Audition... then, I paid more money and now I don't.

                          ???

                          I'm just this much closer to scraping Permiere now.
                          • 10. Re: To Wil Renczes (or someone else at Adobe)
                            Level 1
                            Well hopefully Soundbooth will have major enhancements.
                            • 11. Re: To Wil Renczes (or someone else at Adobe)
                              ytlevine Level 1
                              I like Audition as it is. I don't need a new program. And with the amount of people who used PP and Audition before and now miss it, ypu would think Adobe would realize that they can put BOTH options in and please everyone.
                              • 12. Re: To Wil Renczes (or someone else at Adobe)
                                Averdahl Level 3
                                I solve it like this:
                                1. Alt-click on the audio you want to edit
                                2. Go to Clip > Audio Options > Render and Replace
                                3. Go to Edit > Edit Original
                                4. Edit the audio in Audition, save it and Alt+TAB over to PPro and the audio updates directly.
                                5. If you want to edit the same audio again, Edit > Edit Original will do the trick.

                                If you set a keyboard shortcut for Render and Replace, Audition is only two keystrokes away; the shortcut for Render and Replace + Ctrl+E for Edit Original.

                                Yes, not the best solution, but it does what you want.
                                Yes, i want Edit in Adobe Audition back as well.

                                /Roger
                                • 13. Re: To Wil Renczes (or someone else at Adobe)
                                  Level 1
                                  I just do not understand why the features for CS4 are locked??

                                  I am willing to bet anything here that EVERYONE on this forum will NOT be happy with the features included.

                                  I do not understand why Adobe presumes they think they know what the market wants and what we want from them and their products. It kills me.

                                  For instance I wonder if batch rendering is on the list, or letting the exports/renders work in the background so you can carry on editing...?

                                  Better optimization of more CPU's...?
                                  A much better support of codecs/formats natively...?
                                  Better stability... and memory management...?

                                  Not to rant or be a brat but I really feel like you guys (Adobe) want to go on your own mission. You guys really really really really need to listen to what the people want.

                                  You guys need to re-read this thread: http://www.adobeforums.com/webx?128@@.3c054dc4
                                  • 14. Re: To Wil Renczes (or someone else at Adobe)
                                    Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional
                                    >I am willing to bet anything here that EVERYONE on this forum will NOT be happy with the features included.

                                    I'll take that bet. Who should we get to hold the money until CS4 is released? I'm dead serious.

                                    >I do not understand why Adobe presumes they think they know what the market wants and what we want from them and their products.

                                    They presume because, if you have been a good boy, you've added feature requests and bug reports at http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform. If the features added there, and the bugs reported there, are indeed representative of what the market wants and what shortcomings the market sees in the current version, then I expect that they've got a pretty darn good presumption.

                                    >I really feel like you guys (Adobe) want to go on your own mission.

                                    And what mission would that be? The mission to alienate every single Premiere Pro user by completely ignoring their requests? The flurry of updates since the release of CS3 should by itself be indicative of the dedication and market focus of the Premiere team, and a resounding invalidation of your hypothesis.

                                    Let's compare the period after the release of PPro 2.0 to the period after the release of CS3. Which time period do you think is better? Hell, there are even admitted Premiere developers participating in the user-to-user forum now! But a word of warning, Howard. It won't take many myopic rants to chase them away, much as they were chased away after the release of Premiere 5. It's taken all these years to get them back here. I, for one, would not like to see that cycle repeated.

                                    My two cents.

                                    -Jeff
                                    • 15. Re: To Wil Renczes (or someone else at Adobe)
                                      Jeron Coolman Level 1
                                      I'll take that bet too :)

                                      I don't understand your rant Howard. If you truly believe Adobe has no intention of providing their users with what they want, and that EVERYONE will be unhappy with the next release of Premiere Pro, you really should find another solution from a different company.

                                      I would, if I felt that way. In fact, I felt that way about Avid, so I switched from Avid to Adobe ;)
                                      • 16. Re: To Wil Renczes (or someone else at Adobe)
                                        Harm Millaard Level 7
                                        I think, however it was phrased, that Howard made the point that some functionality was taken out and it should be very easy to put that functionality back in. A lot of clients have been requesting that functionality for
                                        b 6 months
                                        and Adobe, according to Wil, has not listened and decided it will not happen.
                                        b That is discouraging and disappointing.
                                        • 17. Re: To Wil Renczes (or someone else at Adobe)
                                          Level 1
                                          I would venture the next release will be within 18 months, I'm guessing early-mid 2009. It seems perfectly reasonable to me that the feature set should be locked down by now. There's a lot of planning, coding, debugging, re-coding, etc. that goes into a product as big as Premiere. Heck, Microsoft's operating system cycle is 7 years.

                                          Fear not. The feature requests/bug-reports are obviously being taken into consideration. The remappable shift+pg-up and shift+pg-dn shortcut keystrokes are proof enough for me that they're listening.

                                          Will there be features not included that you want? Of course. But I don't think Adobe developers are sitting in a sound-proof booth dreaming up features for the sake of it. Every feature they make is a direct response to feature requests, market forces, etc.
                                          • 18. Re: To Wil Renczes (or someone else at Adobe)
                                            Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional
                                            > I think, however it was phrased, that Howard made the point that some functionality was taken out and it should be very easy to put that functionality back in.

                                            Howard's post had nothing at all to do with "Edit in Audition", which is the functionality that you are describing, and the focus of your previous posts. Howard's post was much more broad-based.

                                            Audition was overkill for me and a whole bunch of other video editors. Soundbooth is a good idea, but the 1.0 version obviously lacked some essential features.

                                            Reference those missing features - I wouldn't presume that the Sb engineers are just sitting on their butts drinking coffee and munching Yoodles. I expect they've got more than a few surprises in store.
                                            • 19. Re: To Wil Renczes (or someone else at Adobe)
                                              Level 1
                                              >I wouldn't presume that the Sb engineers are just sitting on their butts drinking coffee and munching Yoodles.

                                              Of course not! Yoodles are solely for the use of Premiere editors.
                                              ;-)
                                              • 21. Re: To Wil Renczes (or someone else at Adobe)
                                                Harm Millaard Level 7
                                                "Honey, I took out the garbage can today!"

                                                "Great, will you take it back to the porch tonight?"

                                                "No way, Honey, you just have to wait until we get a new one."

                                                "What do we do in the mean time? This may take 6 months or even longer."

                                                "Well that is your problem, not mine, so just cool it, will you..."
                                                • 22. Re: To Wil Renczes (or someone else at Adobe)
                                                  Level 1
                                                  Okay perhaps I over-reacted... a lot. Sorry.

                                                  However I feel that basing your next product solely on feature requests and bug reports is not enough. Yes it is important however it is just not a fair representation of what people out there want.

                                                  I believe a survey of sorts ADDED to the list of features is a better way to go. Also taking a look at the competition and saying "lets better what they have..." Things like keeping your user base up to date with changes and new support.

                                                  Jeron, I know I hardly mentioned Soundbooth, but trust me it grinds me that Audition was taken out, why not let Audition and Soundbooth both be supported?

                                                  There seems to be a lot of people out there defending programmers (with all due respect) by saying these things take time and money, which of course they do. But look at how long it took Adobe to support DVCPRO...?? Why did it take long compared to other companies like AVID, and Apple...? If they can do it it means it can be done. I actually do not care for their reasons as to why it took nearly 2 years. As far as I am concerned they need to start leading the way not constantly (2 years later) catch up to everyone else... XDCAM everyone?

                                                  As for Adobe going on their own mission... well I get the feeling they sometimes do, for eg: taking out Audition & adding Soundbooth...? Why?

                                                  At this point in my post I should mention that I am really grateful to be able to use PPRO, and I appreciate all the effort that goes into it. :-)

                                                  However I sometimes get the feeling that Adobe do not want to make Premiere better than it already is. By this I mean making PPRO so good that people would want to switch to it. Let's be honest PPRO is in direct comparison to FCP, no lies there. So why not add more features and make it better (ie faster & more stable) than FCP at a better price?

                                                  Premiere has always had stability issues even on newer dual Quad systems with 8GB of RAM people still get random crashes, and that dreadful screen: "Premiere Pro is running low on system memory please restart it..."

                                                  All I am trying to say is that CS4 will need to be so much more powerful and actually better than before to actually make it worth upgrading to.

                                                  Who else thinks CS4 will lead the market? I really want it to.

                                                  I know people might disagree with me and points.
                                                  • 23. Re: To Wil Renczes (or someone else at Adobe)
                                                    Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional
                                                    >"What do we do in the mean time? This may take 6 months or even longer."

                                                    Has Audition stopped working on your system?
                                                    • 24. Re: To Wil Renczes (or someone else at Adobe)
                                                      Harm Millaard Level 7
                                                      b From PP it has since the introduction of CS3. Yes.

                                                      There are workarounds, but who wants to pay that price for being stolen of functionality, leaving you with a crippled suite instead of a very, very simple way to resurrect the capabilities that the previous version gave you. In that sense I completely agree with Howard.
                                                      • 25. Re: To Wil Renczes (or someone else at Adobe)
                                                        Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional
                                                        >There are workarounds

                                                        Precisely. To continue your story...

                                                        "Well, I see you brought the garbage can back to the side of the house."

                                                        "Yup. That's the best I can do until I figure out a way to fit it properly back on the porch."

                                                        "You mean I have to walk an extra 4 feet to put the trash in the can until you figure out how the trash can best fits?"

                                                        "Yup. I may even get a new can to replace this one. You'll have to wait and see."

                                                        "What if I don't like the new can?"

                                                        "Then you are free to handle the garbage chores yourself. At which point you can get any darn can that you like."
                                                        • 26. Re: To Wil Renczes (or someone else at Adobe)
                                                          Jim_Simon Level 8
                                                          >I just do not understand why the features for CS4 are locked?

                                                          Just a guess, but probably because they have a target release date, and have estimated the amount of work that needs doing to make that date. Adding new features, or even putting back old ones, adds to that work. At some point, it makes sense to say "that's it for this version".
                                                          • 27. Re: To Wil Renczes (or someone else at Adobe)
                                                            Jeron Coolman Level 1
                                                            I always felt that one of the primary reasons Adobe dropped Audition for Soundbooth in CS3, was because Soundbooth runs on a Mac and Audition doesn't and they wanted to offer a cross platform audio edit tool for premiere pro. (Yeah, I guess they could have just ported Audition...)
                                                            • 28. Re: To Wil Renczes (or someone else at Adobe)
                                                              Level 1
                                                              Interesting point, Jeron. I hadn't thought of that.

                                                              As far as Audition vs. Soundbooth: let's also keep in mind that us folks regularly on this forum may not be the most indicative cross-section of Premiere Pro users. Polling us and our needs will lead to results like, "Dewey defeats Truman."
                                                              • 29. Re: To Wil Renczes (or someone else at Adobe)
                                                                Level 1
                                                                Good Job People! We finally have someone like Wil to help and give us some inside details and then someone jumps down his throat and now we won't hear from him. Give him a break for god's sake.
                                                                • 30. Re: To Wil Renczes (or someone else at Adobe)
                                                                  akribie Level 2
                                                                  I would guess that it wouldn't be too hard to allow external editing in any chosen audio app - not just Soundbooth or Audition.

                                                                  More flexibility = more happy customers who have workflows that differ from those pre-conceived by software designers.
                                                                  • 31. Re: To Wil Renczes (or someone else at Adobe)
                                                                    ytlevine Level 1
                                                                    I don't understand what the fight is - SB or Audition. They can put both in, or an option to set which one you want to use.
                                                                    • 32. Re: To Wil Renczes (or someone else at Adobe)
                                                                      Jim_Simon Level 8
                                                                      I don't think the fight is whether or not it should be done, only when it will be done. It won't happen for CS4, and some folks are upset at that.
                                                                      • 33. Re: To Wil Renczes (or someone else at Adobe)
                                                                        ytlevine Level 1
                                                                        Why can't it be in the next update for CS3?
                                                                        • 34. Re: To Wil Renczes (or someone else at Adobe)
                                                                          Level 1
                                                                          > At some point, it makes sense to say "that's it for this version".

                                                                          My point exactly!!

                                                                          They never put everything that needs to put in. Premiere is always behind FCP... plain and simple. I love PPRO and wish it was the other way round.

                                                                          I for one want to fight to make CS4 the best it can be... leaving Audition out is not the best it can be.

                                                                          Simply allow both to be used.
                                                                          • 35. Re: To Wil Renczes (or someone else at Adobe)
                                                                            Level 1
                                                                            "leaving Audition out is not the best it can be."

                                                                            That's your opinion, and I don't necessarily even disagree. The formula is pretty simple though: given an alloted amount of time to the next shipping deadline, how many feature requests exist, and how many people want x vs y. Sort through that prioritized list, figure out how much time each will take, and what will fit into the given timeframe.

                                                                            Something is always bound to fall off the list - it's impossible to do it all. In this particular case, you're asking for a relatively simple feature, but a) it only applies to the Windows users who own Audition, and b) you can work around it by importing the audio file directly into Audition. So it naturally ends up falling lower on the list of priorities.

                                                                            (Footnote: as pointed out by somebody else in this thread, yes, since SoundBooth is the cross-platform application, the aim is to keep the workflow consistent between both operating systems. If you want to debate Audition vs SoundBooth & what gets included in the suite, I will very unhelpfully direct you to the Audition / SoundBooth forums, as that falls completely out of Premiere's jurisdiction :) )

                                                                            So sure, we could arbitrarily decide to add 'edit in Audition': but something else would lose engineering time & get cut. Without seeing the context of all the approved features that are going in the next release, well, you can criticize, but it won't be objective.

                                                                            So no, requests don't fall on deaf ears; we do pay attention to the requests that come in; and, well, you have to trust us that we try to prioritize things based on what the collective 'you' ask for.

                                                                            Cheers
                                                                            • 36. Re: To Wil Renczes (or someone else at Adobe)
                                                                              creig bryan-mUOxt4 Level 1
                                                                              Thanks, Wil.

                                                                              Keep Smiling
                                                                              • 37. Re: To Wil Renczes (or someone else at Adobe)
                                                                                TradeWind Level 3
                                                                                Super rad. I think that pretty much sums it up.

                                                                                1) not everything each of us thinks is a priority will wind up in the next revision/version
                                                                                2) some stuff we might not expect to see will be in the next revision/version
                                                                                3) Audition does not now and will not in the foreseeable future be a part of the suite and workflow, since Audition also won't be available for Mac.

                                                                                Thanks for the update Wil, keep up the good work over there.
                                                                                • 38. Re: To Wil Renczes (or someone else at Adobe)
                                                                                  Harm Millaard Level 7
                                                                                  In that case, let's hope that the dismal functionality of Soundbooth 1.0 will be fully corrected to at least match Audition 2.0 or preferably 3.0 in terms of capabilities with multi-channel and other things or has the very limited functionality of 1.0 been locked down as well for the CS4 release?
                                                                                  • 39. Re: To Wil Renczes (or someone else at Adobe)
                                                                                    Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional
                                                                                    >or has the very limited functionality of 1.0 been locked down as well for the CS4 release?

                                                                                    You need to ask that over in the Soundbooth/Audition forums.
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