32 Replies Latest reply on Aug 28, 2007 6:02 AM by (Howard_Cromwell)

    Nesting and having to re-render

    Level 1
      I am trialling Premiere CS3 before purchase.

      I find that when I nest a sequence onto another sequence it wants to re-render the nested clip even though it is already rendered in the original sequence. This is before trying to make any changes to the nested sequence.

      Does anyone know whether this is simply a restriction in the trial version? I have been evaluating other NLE software and it's things like this that would put me off buying Premiere.

      Thanks in advance for any help.

      Maurice
        • 1. Re: Nesting and having to re-render
          Level 1
          That is the way it has always been. A lot of people are complaining about it. Put in a feature request.
          • 2. Re: Nesting and having to re-render
            Level 1
            i was going to post about this, but found this thread. i can't believe it. I have the whole thing already rendered in the existing sequence, so why re-render the whole thing? At least it's only the portions that needed rendering in the original sequence and not the whole video!

            I guess the workaround is to just render the portions you need in the original sequence - transitions to make sure they are smooth, etc. and then render the whole thing from the main build in one fell swoop. but it is pretty weak...

            -BChil
            • 3. Re: Nesting and having to re-render
              Level 1
              > I have been evaluating other NLE software and it's things like this that would put me off buying Premiere.

              This singular thing would put you off an otherwise fantastic tool? Hmmmm strange...

              Quite frankly I could not care if it had to re-render, render your entire sequence when you are not busy.

              Put in a feature request, the more Adobe get the more they respond. If only 5 requests are received Adobe won't be bothered.
              • 4. Re: Nesting and having to re-render
                Level 1
                The more they get bothered, the more they respond, evidenced by the number of patches to PPRO 2 - zero to date...

                -BChil
                • 5. Re: Nesting and having to re-render
                  Steven L. Gotz Level 5
                  Patches are not the topic. Howard is correct. Fixes have traditionally gone into new releases. However, as you can see, there has already been one patch to CS3. That is the Nacromedia effect. Their products got patches in that manner and not Premiere Pro could if Adobe is so inclined.
                  • 6. Re: Nesting and having to re-render
                    Level 1
                    Steven -

                    Why are patches not the topic? Your think it is normal to pay $300 to upgrade Premiere from 2.0 to 2.01? (2.5 at best...) Spoken like a true Adobe apologist. As much as I resist it , I too am becoming one - mostly because of my Photoshop background. I accept the fact that I must save often despite my 4 gigs of RAM, because CS3 might throw me an "unknown error" at any time. Nice cop-out by the way, unknown error. Can you get any more vague?

                    -BChil
                    • 7. Re: Nesting and having to re-render
                      Steven L. Gotz Level 5
                      Apologist? Seriously? Nonsense! I complain and put in more feature requests than almost anybody.

                      I just don't complain to you about it since you can't help.

                      Patches are not the topic of this thread. Patches are not historically how changes got made. They might be now with Macromedia influence, but not historically. Yet the feature requests do get addressed. That is the topic. Not patches. You and Harm are both hung up on short term solutions. This 2.01 bull is nonsense.
                      • 8. Re: Nesting and having to re-render
                        Harm Millaard Level 7
                        Steven,

                        Let's be realistic. There are a lot of feature requests, some very simple. like adding
                        b Edit in Audition
                        which was taken out but could easily be reinstalled in CS3. Others are more difficult and take more time.

                        We only express our wish that Adobe would be more responsive to market requests. In the past two years Adobe has added hardly any functionality (OK there is time remapping and multiple bins, but as someone has remarked, what the heck) but still charging serious $$$ for ostensibly limited improvements. There are numerous companies that respond speedily to customer requests,
                        b but Adobe is in league with a snail that brakes before the corner.
                        • 9. Re: Nesting and having to re-render
                          Curt Wrigley Level 4
                          Harm; I pretty much agree. And I think the cause is PPRO is A piece of a large puzzle for Adobe. The suite is the king and must be upgraded in sync with one another, making individual improvements (i fear) slower to come). History indicates PPRO is not the highest priority at Adobe and is treated as such.

                          Huge difference in design; In Apple's suite, FCP is the clear Hub of their suite. Everything revolves around FCP. Adobe's suite's closest thing to a hub is AE which the avg editor does not spend a ton of time in. special effect people do, but not editors; and Im talkin to editors (i think). So; Apple having FPC as their clear hub continuously outpaces Adobe/PPRO with new features. Maybe Adobe outpaces Apple's Motion with AE, but from an editors viewpoint that isnt significant. So; perhaps the issue is Adobe's target customer.

                          Curt
                          • 10. Re: Nesting and having to re-render
                            Jim_Simon Level 8
                            You would think that each app has it's own team of engineers, designers, programmers, quality control, etc. One of the principles of good business is that each activity must be able to bring in more revenue that it costs to deliver. Assuming that's true for Adobe, there should be no need for Adobe to have to divide resources, as each program should be able to support it's own dedicated team continually making improvements.

                            There should be no reason new features and bug fixes can't be added individually for each app as they're ready, and then incorporated into the suite when it's ready. If memory serves, Premiere got HDV support as an add-on, and Encore got dual-layer support as a free patch as well.
                            • 11. Re: Nesting and having to re-render
                              Level 1
                              I was not complaining to YOU, Steven - unless you consider this to be YOUR forum... I was just venting in general about the woes of upgrading to CS3 days before start a major project. To tell the truth, I have stopped submitting bug reports, since they seem to fall on deaf ears. Hey, if a company the size of Abobe/Macromedia would just hire someone full-time to peruse these forums, there would be no need to submit requests. They would already know. And hell, maybe they could post every once in a while and offer hope for the future that our concerns are being addressed...

                              SCENARIO: In a supervised edit (client present)- billing HOURLY. You spend 3 hours building a new sequence and it's several layers of HDV - LOTS of rendering. Now, you're done and you import it into the MAIN timeline, and it takes 20 minutes to render AGAIN (keep in mind that it is already rendered) - Even my client who knows nothing about this stuff asked why it has to be rendered again? I know for a fact AVID Xpress had this figured out 4 years ago in 3.5 release and all my FCP friends tell me its not an issue in Final Cut. But yet it cost my client about $35 extra dollars to render it again and all I could do is shrug and say "I don't know why." He said the $35 extra dollars was fine, as long as I submitted a feature request... (haha)

                              Steven - As for the apologist comment, my apologies (no pun intended). My frustration and tone at that time was based more on a driver (ATI X300 video card - crashed PPRO3 when rendering - EVERY TIME - uninstalled video drivers and now it's fine - I will post a new thread on this topic) However, it's things that you say repeatedly that lead me to form that opinion. Things along the line of - "Traditionally Adobe does not patch Premiere Pro. Deal with it..." and "You and Harm are both hung up on short term solutions." that make me think maybe you are on Adobe's payroll or something. The way companies rush their products to market, they MUST have forgotten to fix something. Look at how many patches Photoshop gets! I want a short-term solution because I use this product NOW. TODAY. I just paid to upgrade and want these bugs fixed NOW, so that I can use them NOW. By accepting that it might get fixed in a future release that I can buy - that is the definition of an apologist. I know you submit more feature requests that anyone, but who is listening? You are a wealth of knowledge and I totally appreciate you input and help, albeit a bit cantankerous at times...

                              The original subject of this thread was about NESTING AND RENDERING. I have been submitting to Adobe about this since Premiere Pro 1.0 - as have a lot of other people I'm sure - and here we are at version 3 and still has the same bug. I call it a bug, and not a feature - because seriously, how hard would it be to reference preview files that are ALREADY rendered somewhere on your hard drive. This should not be a FEATURE REQUEST, but a simple bug fix. I am not a computer programmer, but it seems like it would be easy.

                              I have searched for the CS3 patch that Steven mentioned and cannot find it anywhere. Adobe never sent me an email to tell me that there was a patch available. They must have either lost my email address after cashing my check or feel that this patch would not have benefited me... Can anyone send a link to get this patch?

                              Harm - after Steven pointed out that I was like you I looked back at some old threads. I thought my witty CS3= PPRO 2.01 comment was original, but you have been touting phrase for months. We are definitely like-minded on this topic, but as Steven says, what good does it do to ***** about it here? I think it is our frustration that makes us go and on. At least we are passionate about it!

                              -BChil
                              • 12. Re: Nesting and having to re-render
                                (Jon_Sands) Level 1
                                bchil, to get the patch, open premiere, or any cs3 app. Help>Updates
                                • 13. Re: Nesting and having to re-render
                                  Steven L. Gotz Level 5
                                  > was not complaining to YOU

                                  I know. You are just complaining to the group. I just don't see the point. Rallying people to submit reports, that I understand. It isn't what you say that is useless, it is the way you go about saying it. Gather your forces and the ears are not deaf. That I know for a fact.

                                  > I have stopped submitting bug reports, since they seem to fall on deaf ears

                                  Then like a citizen who doesn't bother to vote, you have no real right to complain. Oh, you can do it, but why should anyone listen if you don't care enough to add your name to the list of people submitting bug reports and feature requests?

                                  I seldom render sequences that are going to get nested. They have to be rendered again, so I nest them and if they need a change, I go back to the original, make the change, and then render in the main sequence. But I do understand the problem. They managed to get the audio to not need rendering, but not the video. Sucks doesn't it? So gather hundreds of users to your cause! Don't waste time complaining. Use it to gather support!

                                  > I call it a bug

                                  You can call a frog a bird but that doesn't make it one. If works as designed. It is the design that is flawed and needs to be changed. There are many such things in Premiere Pro, and many bugs.

                                  > I think it is our frustration that makes us go and on

                                  I am in the middle of a native HDV project where I can not use Cineform for the reason that it is a tutorial and we are forced to use Production Premium effects and codecs only. I really hate this project but I can't do anything about it. If I had to edit this way all the time, I would consider a change to FCP. But with Cineform, I don't have to change to a Mac.

                                  Is it frustrating? Sure. Do I ***** to the group about it? No. Do I intend to let Adobe know exactly how unhappy I am? You bet!

                                  I understand the frustration. But if you drop out of the established procedures, you are also dropping out of the list of people who get results. Make your voice heard, not just a whiny noise in the background.

                                  You have every right to complain. I just don't see any advantage to doing it the way many people around here do it. This is a user-to-user forum. Use it to get support from users, not to whine about your troubles.

                                  Maybe it is because I have seen certain changes made that I believe our voices can be heard. Maybe it is because I help people sell software in the telecommunications field and I know exactly how changes get scheduled.

                                  The squeaky wheel gets the grease. However, you have to squeak where the guy with the grease can hear you. And this is not that place. It could be, sure. But it isn't.
                                  • 14. Re: Nesting and having to re-render
                                    Level 1
                                    Point well taken.

                                    Even so, a user-to-user that is hosted at the vendor's site. I remember years ago, when I used some Pinnacle products, they had a user-to-user forum as well. The difference was that from time to time you would see an actual Pinnacle employee in there posting replies, workarounds, etc... That would be great here.

                                    -BChil
                                    • 15. Re: Nesting and having to re-render
                                      Harm Millaard Level 7
                                      The Premiere Pro forum is the prodigal son in the CS3 family in that sense. Other forums like Soundbooth and Ultra do have Adobe employees regularly helping.
                                      • 16. Re: Nesting and having to re-render
                                        Steven L. Gotz Level 5
                                        We have at least one employee here who helps out with answering questions sometimes, but it is unofficial. And seems to be centered around the time period soon after the product release. The others seem to be official. I agree that someone from Adobe should take it upon themselves to appoint a talented tech to represent the company. Unfortunately, that has not happened. I really don't know why.

                                        I was told that users originally had to ask for a place to use and Adobe granted them some space. It sisn't seem to be Adobe's idea.
                                        • 17. Re: Nesting and having to re-render
                                          Level 1
                                          Can we put in a feature request for Adobe Technicians to read through these forums? :-)
                                          • 18. Re: Nesting and having to re-render
                                            Steven L. Gotz Level 5
                                            Hmmm. I wonder. It might work, I suppose. It couldn't hurt.
                                            • 19. Re: Nesting and having to re-render
                                              Level 1
                                              I was actually partly serious.

                                              I for one would welcome the experience, if others here feel the same way perhaps we should request it, somehow.

                                              We could find out solutions for workflow questions like the OP's one. We could get the idea across to Adobe that somethings need re-tooling.
                                              • 20. Re: Nesting and having to re-render
                                                Level 1
                                                Let's ALL send a feature request for an Adobe technician to man this foru.! All at once! TODAY. August 26, 2007.

                                                -BChil
                                                • 21. Re: Nesting and having to re-render
                                                  Steven L. Gotz Level 5
                                                  Howard, I assumed you were serious. As I said, what could it hurt?
                                                  • 22. Re: Nesting and having to re-render
                                                    Level 1
                                                    I am going to send one now, it should not hurt if enough people do it.

                                                    Get the hint everybody?
                                                    • 23. Re: Nesting and having to re-render
                                                      Good thought. Good luck with that. Wayyyyy back in the old days of Premiere 4.2, Adobe employee(s) would show up on this board. They are probably all dead now, having followed their workstations out the nearest window (no pun intended). I never saw such abuse heaped on people. Any attempt to help some one was overrun by flames and rants the like of which... Well, anyway, it is most likely that no one who works for Adobe really wants to show up here. Editing must make for incredibly desperate people.

                                                      At least users can yell at each other without damaging the corporate image. Any tech showing up here has to be willing to eat a lot of $**t. Not my choice of a career move...
                                                      • 24. Re: Nesting and having to re-render
                                                        Harm Millaard Level 7
                                                        From other forums and the contribution of Adobe employees it seems that that time is over. Their contributions are highly appreciated, but as always, c'est le ton qui fait la musique.
                                                        • 25. Re: Nesting and having to re-render
                                                          Level 1
                                                          Then we will have watch our manners and not scare them away, IF and when they start showing up...

                                                          -BChil
                                                          • 26. Re: Nesting and having to re-render
                                                            Curt Wrigley Level 4
                                                            > Then we will have watch our manners and not scare them away, IF and when they start showing up...

                                                            Very true.
                                                            • 27. Re: Nesting and having to re-render
                                                              Steven L. Gotz Level 5
                                                              What are the chances of that on a forum where it has been proven that we can't even get along with each other? As sad as that is, it is a fact of life that I am afraid will only lessen slightly with Adobe support.
                                                              • 28. Re: Nesting and having to re-render
                                                                Level 1
                                                                Steven,

                                                                I think certain people enjoy evoking others by saying sly comments.

                                                                It is true, I believe, in every single environment that some people will always ice-skate uphill.
                                                                • 29. Re: Nesting and having to re-render
                                                                  Eddie Lotter Level 4

                                                                  In my experience, the regulars here may disagree on occasion, but they don't usually devolve into personal attacks.

                                                                  The acrimony usually comes from an almost constant stream of newcomers who barge in here, guns blazing and berating everyone in sight. These same people often disappear with nary a whimper, but the damage is done.

                                                                  It really is the few spoiling it for the many.

                                                                  Cheers
                                                                  Eddie


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                                                                  • 30. Re: Nesting and having to re-render
                                                                    Level 1
                                                                    > who barge in here, guns blazing and berating everyone in sight.

                                                                    For sure. Unlimited Free Image and File Hosting at MediaFire They are eager to complain, not all of them but a few.

                                                                    I would not really consider myself a major regular although I have been here a fair amount of time, and I do try and help.
                                                                    • 31. Re: Nesting and having to re-render
                                                                      Eddie Lotter Level 4

                                                                      I consider you a regular and a helpful one at that. ;)

                                                                      Cheers
                                                                      Eddie


                                                                      Forum FAQ
                                                                      Premiere Pro Wiki
                                                                      - Over 250 frequently answered questions
                                                                      - Over 100 free tutorials
                                                                      - Maintained by editors like you
                                                                      • 32. Re: Nesting and having to re-render
                                                                        Level 1
                                                                        Thanks Eddie.

                                                                        I try and help where possible. My best knowledge is on CS2 & CS3. I used Premiere 6 for a few months, way back when I started editing, but I do not even remember what it looks like. :-)