39 Replies Latest reply on Jul 4, 2008 2:42 PM by Jim_Simon

    Canon HV30 and CS3

      No where can I seem to find the answer to this question. Will CS3 support the new Canon HV30? I read on Adobe's Premiere Pro compatibility chart that CS3 will not support the HV20 in 24P mode (NTSC).
        • 1. Re: Canon HV30 and CS3
          Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional
          Assume not until Adobe announces otherwise.
          • 2. Re: Canon HV30 and CS3
            Level 1
            <James_A._Farrell@adobeforums.com> wrote in message <br />news:59b4f4af.-1@webcrossing.la2eafNXanI...<br />> No where can I seem to find the answer to this question. Will CS3 support <br />> the new Canon HV30? I read on Adobe's Premiere Pro compatibility chart <br />> that CS3 will not support the HV20 in 24P mode (NTSC).<br /><br />CS3 supports the HV20 and, since the HV30 is, for all intents and purposes, <br />identical, it should support that as well.  Both cameras 24P mode is <br />contained in a 60i "envelope," so it must be pulled-down before CS3 can work <br />with it.  CS3 can't do this natively, but there are a number of 3rd party <br />solutions that can convert it to true 24p which, of course, CS3 can handle <br />just fine.
            • 3. Re: Canon HV30 and CS3
              Hi, I've filmed with my HV 30 in the HDV 24p format. And when I tried to capture the film, the Preiere CS3 does not recognized the film, the monitor was blank.
              I tried to film in DV format, and then the premiere accept the video.
              Do I need an special plug-in for HDV formats? I downloaded the Canon's XL 1 files in adobe's website, and started the project as a Canon 24p, but this not work.
              Could you help me with this?
              than you,
              Gabriel.
              • 4. Re: Canon HV30 and CS3
                I also have an CANON HV30 and ADOBE CS3 PREMIERE:
                - FireWire works properly
                - Premiere can detect the HV30 and I can start / stop / wind / rewind my movies on the camera screen.

                But I cannot capture:
                - the red button is greyed
                - I cannot see the movie on the computer screen

                What is wrong?

                I have googled a whole day: I find many people with the same problem, but no solution!

                Fantastic, if you can help!!!!!!
                • 5. Re: Canon HV30 and CS3
                  Level 1
                  Are you using a 60i preset? That is what you need to setup in the beginning.
                  • 6. Re: Canon HV30 and CS3
                    I have a HV20, I can't capture in HDV mode, I have started different projects with different settings, including the 60i but just get a grey screen in the capture window and saying "can't activate recorder,try resetting camera."
                    If I change capture settings to just DV mode, I can capture fine... but only in 720 x 576 not HD...
                    Any ideas?
                    • 7. Re: Canon HV30 and CS3
                      Harm Millaard Level 7
                      Check your camera settings.
                      • 8. Re: Canon HV30 and CS3
                        Level 1
                        You do not get preview during capture. You have to use your camera screen to preview. I have used the HV20 with CS3 with no problems.
                        • 9. Re: Canon HV30 and CS3
                          Level 1
                          The HV20 will capture ok with Premiere.

                          do you want to do it this way ?

                          No !

                          your resulting file is a single file.

                          if you edit this even slightly, you will have video and audio out of sync. Trust me I know.

                          I now capture all video from the HV20 in Pinnacle Studio, and then edit in Premiere.

                          your subject says the HV30, but you indicate the HV20 ( ? )

                          Dave.
                          • 10. Re: Canon HV30 and CS3
                            Steven L. Gotz Level 5
                            You can still batch capture in Premiere Pro, or use the free program HDVSplit to capture with scene detect.

                            By the way, the out of sync problem was solved with HDV in Premiere Pro version 3.2.0 so you want to update to the latest patch.
                            • 11. Re: Canon HV30 and CS3
                              Level 1
                              Hi Steven,

                              I wasn't aware the out of sync problems were fixed. However, I thought I had learned here, that creating a single file for both video and audio is NOT the way to go. ( ? )

                              You are much better creating a video file and an audio(s) file. ( ? )

                              Dave.
                              • 12. Re: Canon HV30 and CS3
                                Steven L. Gotz Level 5
                                No, not really. They are easier to work with together. The problem was the way that the MPEG long GOP handled breaks in the video differently than breaks in the audio. So Premiere Pro now puts red video frames in where it has to in order to keep the audio in sync.

                                I still prefer to use software for capturing that gives me scene detection, like HDVSplit, or Cineform's HDLink, or even the Matrox RT.X2 hardware solution.
                                • 13. Re: Canon HV30 and CS3
                                  Dave R J Level 1
                                  I have an HV30. Premiere works with it.

                                  I shot some interlaced footage and then some 30p footage. I didn't try the 24p.

                                  I created a Premiere project for HDV 1080 30p and it imported from the camera fine. No preview, but you can watch the camera monitor to know when to stop capturing.

                                  The problem with that was that the HDV 30p project is 1440x1080 and the imported clip had that resolution. But the HV30 actually has the full 1920x1080 resolution.

                                  So I then created an "XDCAM EX 1080p 30p (HQ)" project that is a 1920x1080 30p project. I then imported from the camera in that project and it came in as the full 1920x1080 resolution. The image is stunning.

                                  Not the greatest subject matter, but here is a single frame capture from my test tape in that project:

                                  http://www.redtengu.com/images/raw/first_hd_cam_test2.jpg

                                  (edited to correct the name of the XDCAM project setting)
                                  • 14. Re: Canon HV30 and CS3
                                    Level 1
                                    >So I then created an "XDCAM EX 1080p 30p (HQ)" project that is a 1920x1080 30p project. I then imported from the camera in that project and it came in as the full 1920x1080 resolution. The image is stunning.

                                    Your image gets scaled to 1440 x 1080 when it hits tape. Even though you are creating projects with the size 1920 x 1080 you are not getting that true resolution. The only way to do that is to capture you footage through the camera into a hard drive skipping the tape all together.
                                    • 15. Re: Canon HV30 and CS3
                                      Jim_Simon Level 8
                                      >But the HV30 actually has the full 1920x1080 resolution.

                                      "...Canon HV20 and HV30 camcorders which scan progressively in 1440x1080 resolution, and store the resultant data using either 2-3 pulldown (in 24p mode) or PsF (in 25p and 30p modes) techniques..."

                                      While the HV30 does have full resolution imagers, the HDV format limits the recorded resolution to 1440 x 1080.
                                      • 16. Re: Canon HV30 and CS3
                                        Ive got a Question for Dave Zeno.. Please

                                        Dave in an earlier post you stated that you were bringing in your captured HDV clips from Studio.. I have tried this and Premire won't recognise the captured files for me .. Could you explian your technique for getting these captured Studio HDV files into CS3,( what files are you selecting to import into CS3) so I might try it because when I tried it just said files not recognised by Premire..I believe its the .SCN file it doesn't like but Iam not sure ??. I would like to do this if I can as my wife works in Studio & I am using CS3, being able to use the same captured files would be a big bonus for me.

                                        Iam using a XH-A1 & a HV30 as source Camera's
                                        • 17. Re: Canon HV30 and CS3
                                          jefbak Level 1
                                          I just shot some video on the HV30 in 30P mode and imported into the HDV 1080p30 preset.

                                          The timeline indeicates that it wants to render the video.
                                          Note that the HV30 has the 30p setting and the HV20 does not.

                                          I tried the xdcam 1080p 30p (typing just x and d gives this btw XD) Cam settings with the same result.

                                          I captured fro within premiere pro cs3. Can I confirm that it captured 30P?
                                          • 18. Re: Canon HV30 and CS3
                                            Level 1
                                            Everything that comes out of the HV30 is interlaced. That is why you are getting the red bars. You need to use the 60i preset. The camera takes the 30p and changes it to interlaced. You can try desktop editing mode if you need "no fields"
                                            • 19. Re: Canon HV30 and CS3
                                              jefbak Level 1
                                              Okay so to go to a web format would I need to de-interlace and what the heck is that HDV1080P30P setting for anyway?
                                              • 20. Re: Canon HV30 and CS3
                                                Jim_Simon Level 8
                                                >what the heck is that HDV1080P30P setting [good] for anyway?

                                                Not much, really.
                                                • 21. Re: Canon HV30 and CS3
                                                  jefbak Level 1
                                                  I guess I just need to know if my end product is going to be the WEB and I shoot in 30p, what should the premiere pro cs3 workflow be?

                                                  It seems like the canon outputs 30P captures as 60i and each field is a clone or duplicate of the other, so the pull down would be 2:2

                                                  But I just want a good quality web video that takes advantage of the 30P setting. Is anyone doing this?

                                                  Also I don't have audio synch, so do I need capture the audio as a separate file and link it in timeline instead of one mpeg file?
                                                  • 22. Re: Canon HV30 and CS3
                                                    r9r9r9
                                                    Out of curiosity is the HV30 easier to work (DV tape) with then the new Canon with AVCHD?

                                                    I was thinking about getting the Canon HV30 also. After reading this thread am I right in believing that to batch capture and see on monitor that I must use HDVSplit? This I am guessing will batch capture as AVI or MOV files.

                                                    Will HDVSplit capture at full resolution?

                                                    Lastly if I record at 24p when imported to Premiere after capturing to export the movie at 24p is there a problem with that? someone here stated if capturiong at 24p you need to use a 3rd party Magic Bullet ie to convert back to 24p?
                                                    • 23. Re: Canon HV30 and CS3
                                                      Harm Millaard Level 7
                                                      The HV30 does not work with 24P.
                                                      • 24. Re: Canon HV30 and CS3
                                                        Level 1
                                                        >The HV30 does not work with 24P.

                                                        Can you elaborate on that? The HV30 does shoot 24p.
                                                        • 25. Re: Canon HV30 and CS3
                                                          Andy Urtu Level 1
                                                          The cannon captures the 24p in a 60i mode. So on import, you have to do a 3:2 pulldown to get the 24p
                                                          • 26. Re: Canon HV30 and CS3
                                                            Jim_Simon Level 8
                                                            It's more likely the Canon is adding the pulldown in camera before recording to tape, so you would just edit in a normal 1080i preset.
                                                            • 27. Re: Canon HV30 and CS3
                                                              Dan Isaacs Level 2
                                                              I think Andy meant "pulldown removal", no? It seems from what I've read that Cineform does an admirable job of this on capture (wow...)

                                                              I know it ain't cheap, but Cineform may be a worthwhile investment for this reason alone: not to mention its other benefits.
                                                              • 28. Re: Canon HV30 and CS3
                                                                Jim_Simon Level 8
                                                                Pulldown Removal makes more sense.
                                                                • 29. Re: Canon HV30 and CS3
                                                                  Level 1
                                                                  Dvfilm is a lot cheaper and will do the removal also.
                                                                  • 30. Re: Canon HV30 and CS3
                                                                    jefbak Level 1
                                                                    So if I capture material shot in Canon 30P with Premiere Pro's capture, what happens exactly? I get a 60i upper field first clip with the same information in both fields?

                                                                    I then edit in a 60i timeline and export for web with de-interlacing as I would with regular 60i material. In other words I end up with footage that has a 30P "look"?

                                                                    Does DvFilm run on Mac?
                                                                    • 31. Re: Canon HV30 and CS3
                                                                      jefbak Level 1
                                                                      "Out of curiosity is the HV30 easier to work (DV tape) with then the new Canon with AVCHD?"

                                                                      Difficulty editing AVCHD is why I bought the HV30 instead of the HF10. I wish there was a good consumer editing solution for AVCHD, but I have not heard of anything yet.
                                                                      • 32. Re: Canon HV30 and CS3
                                                                        Jim_Simon Level 8
                                                                        >I wish there was a good consumer editing solution for AVCHD

                                                                        The following video-editing software features support for the AVCHD format:
                                                                        • 33. Re: Canon HV30 and CS3
                                                                          Andy Urtu Level 1
                                                                          Sorry. I meant 3:2 pulldown removal.

                                                                          I use cineform, so I upon capture I get a 24p or 30p file.
                                                                          • 34. Re: Canon HV30 and CS3
                                                                            Dan Isaacs Level 2
                                                                            The only problem (as I see it) with HDV pulldown removal by third-party tools is that you must recompress the MPEG2 stream after conversion. This can reduce quality and, of course, require a significant amount of time.

                                                                            The benefit of a solution such as Cineform is that the conversion is done at realtime during capture and then stored in an AVI container, using "visually lossless" compression. Faster, better quality, simpler workflow... but at a price, of course.

                                                                            Not all pulldown-removers are created equal: The main component of such a system is a good adaptive deinterlacer. Though I do not use Cineform (yet) myself, I did a bit of reading about its IVTC conversion engine and it is most impressive.

                                                                            > I then edit in a 60i timeline and export for web with de-interlacing as I would with regular 60i material.

                                                                            Not really... Well, sort of... I'll explain:

                                                                            You could edit in a 60i timeline but the problem is that other effects and motion, etc. would be truly 60i -- while the original footage is still the 24p in a 60i container. This scenario will likely produce some slightly odd-looking results (a "film" background with "video" effects). Furthermore, this would make it difficult to recreate good progressive frames (at 24 or 30 fps) without repeated fields/frames and/or interlacing artifacts.

                                                                            Premiere's deinterlacer sucks anyway. The results would not be very nice at any frame rate. You could conceivably edit in 60i and then use a variation of my HDV -> SD DVD workflow using DebugMode FrameServer, AviSynth and VirtualDub. This would be much nicer than checking Premiere's deinterlace box, certainly, but...

                                                                            It is really a better idea to perform the pulldown removal prior to editing and to edit in 24p so as to achieve the best match between your sources and your target output.

                                                                            If you regularly shoot and edit HDV in 24p (in a 60i container) -- and quality and performance are important -- Cineform Aspect HD seems like a great investment for only $500.
                                                                            • 35. Re: Canon HV30 and CS3
                                                                              blazer003 Level 1
                                                                              PP3 will support the HV20 and HV30, but these are the limitations:

                                                                              HDV 60i - Full Support
                                                                              HDV 30p (HV30 only) - Full support
                                                                              DV - Full Support

                                                                              but

                                                                              HDV 24p - Limited Support.

                                                                              Here is what happens. When you record footage in 24p it puts it in a 60i stream. the data is there for 24p, but it basically hides it in 60i by adding in duplicates of frames. Ideally your video editing program would be able to figure out where these extra frames are. Cineform Aspect HD can reportedly do it.

                                                                              When capturing 24p in Premiere, you must do it as a 60i project because that's what your 24p footage is hidden as. If you want to then edit your footage in 24p, you must convert it from 60i to 24p. This is a long and cumbersome process, but more info can be found about it at HV20.com

                                                                              My advice is that if you have the HV30, just record in 30p. I have a DOF adapter for my HV30 and have shot on 24p and 30p and while the trained eye can notice it if you're really looking, almost any average viewer will simply see that slight strobing of progressive frames, and will think it looks like film (if you've shot with a 35mm adapter and the correct lenses to get the film like depth of field, which IMO is the most important step in making video look like film.)
                                                                              • 36. Re: Canon HV30 and CS3
                                                                                jefbak Level 1
                                                                                Matt when you say that ppcs3 has HV30 30P support, do you mean in a HDV 60i timeline? When I capture HV30 30P footage in Premiere it shows up as needing to be rendered (red line) in the 30P project settings.
                                                                                • 37. Re: Canon HV30 and CS3
                                                                                  Harm Millaard Level 7
                                                                                  Use 60i settings for the HV30. It has no capability to adjust tape speed, so every format you want is recorded as 60i.
                                                                                  • 38. Re: Canon HV30 and CS3
                                                                                    jefbak Level 1
                                                                                    If that is the case and I need to end up with a high quality web format, I will need to tell my compressor to deinterlace I guess (I am using episode pro).

                                                                                    What deinterlace setting would you choose for HV30? Duplicate fields since both should have the exact information? I assume the 30P in a 60i frame means both 60i fields contain exactly 1/2 the total picture information.

                                                                                    And I thought I was going to circumvent having to deinterlace for web distribution with this camera. Very confusing marketing!

                                                                                    Is this how the panasonic 100 DV camera handles 30P as well? I guess I am wondering how DV supports true progressive capture and HDV does not.

                                                                                    Since the sensor on the HV30 records 1920x1080 and it has an HDMI port, is there a way to capture footage thru the HDMI instead and maintain the 30P capture? Hmmmm.
                                                                                    • 39. Re: Canon HV30 and CS3
                                                                                      Jim_Simon Level 8
                                                                                      Keep in mind that progressive capture at the CCD and what's actually recorded to tape are two different things. The DVX100 will capture 24 progressive frames per second at the CCD. That signal is then processed, adding the appropriate 3:2 pulldown and making it a normal 30 fps interlaced signal when recorded to tape.

                                                                                      HDV only confuses things by adding temporal compression and the use of flags in the data stream. I generally recommend against it's use.