32 Replies Latest reply on Nov 25, 2008 7:49 AM by Newsgroup_User

    So many issues with CS4 (bugs/rants)

    Kid Red
      I'm glad we can get trials. There are a few major issues I'm having.

      Viewing in Safari, when clicking back onto Dreamweaver, the top bar will interact with Safari's tool bar. I have to click on and off to get Dreamweaver to draw on top of Safari. When this happens, there are also white flashes where windows are blank when clicking once on a tab or design view, then on second click the window draws. So anytime I click on the tool bars the page flashes white (empty-void of my html) and reappears on next click. This happens on first start, does not happen if I relaunch DW.

      Table <td background> background input is gone from the proprieties palette.

      Table height does not display when selecting a table, only width. So you have to go into the code and manually change or delete the table height.

      Some image/graphic outer edge colors do not match the defined html color on the page in Dreamweaver but do in Live View and Safari.

      Selecting an image and linking it, automatically populates without a border="0" resulting in an unwanted border color. It should be "0" by default like version 8.

      The color picker is not calibrated correctly. Using the picker on a table cell with the bg color of #990000 gives me a reading of #A31B12. And then getting a reading on the table cell with #A31B12 the color picker reads #AC3022. So it progressively gets lighter, while picking colors from the actual html, if doing multiple cells. So not sure how the color pickers needs to be calibrated to read the hex value because it's not currently doing that.

      I can't drag a file to the tab bar and be allowed to open it. Not sure why that's not allowed?

      Now some of these might be the new way DW codes, some might be fixable with settings, but the color picker and random flashing and viewing issues with Safari, linked images with no border seem like actual bugs to me.


        • 1. So many issues with CS4 (bugs/rants)
          JW34 Level 1
          quote:

          Originally posted by: Kid Red
          Some image/graphic outer edge colors do not match the defined html color on the page in Dreamweaver but do in Live View and Safari.



          I have another thread about this very thing, but no one has been able to answer the problem. I can specify a color using the color picker from a placed graphic that reads 858585 and make that the page background. Then taking the picker to the background with that color it reads 969596. But the previews have the page matching the graphic fine. Makes for interesting page design.
          • 2. Re: So many issues with CS4 (bugs/rants)
            Level 7
            Many of your issues have nothing to do with bugs, perceived or otherwise.
            You are wanting Dreamweaver to put out invalid code (such as table height).
            It's trying to help you create properly coded pages.

            Dunno about the flashing, as I'm still using CS3. Perhaps you're
            overpowering your graphics card?

            --
            Tim G.
            http://www.pactumweb.com
            http://www.shortordersite.com


            • 3. Re: So many issues with CS4 (bugs/rants)
              JW34 Level 1
              The color picker thing is not a bug?
              Type in any color for a background into the Page Properties and hit Apply. Then pick the background color again using the picker on the color you just applied. The numbers are different.
              • 4. Re: So many issues with CS4 (bugs/rants)
                CaryD Level 2
                Have either of you filed a bug report to make sure Adobe know?
                • 5. Re: So many issues with CS4 (bugs/rants)
                  Level 7
                  I can reproduce this on my Mac. I enter #123456 in the Page Properties, and
                  I get #163456 in the eyedropper.

                  Please enter this here -

                  http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform

                  The workaround is to never use the Page properties thing.

                  --
                  Murray --- ICQ 71997575
                  Adobe Community Expert
                  (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
                  ==================
                  http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                  http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                  ==================


                  "JW34" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
                  news:ggajvu$3ne$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                  > The color picker thing is not a bug?
                  > Type in any color for a background into the Page Properties and hit Apply.
                  > Then pick the background color again using the picker on the color you
                  > just
                  > applied. The numbers are different.
                  >

                  • 6. Re: So many issues with CS4 (bugs/rants)
                    Level 7
                    > Table <td background> background input is gone from the proprieties
                    > palette.

                    No it's not gone, it's under the CSS 'tab' (look on the left side) as a Bg
                    color well and input field.

                    > Table height does not display when selecting a table, only width. So you
                    > have
                    > to go into the code and manually change or delete the table height.

                    As already stated, table height is invalid HTML - always has been.

                    > Selecting an image and linking it, automatically populates without a
                    > border="0" resulting in an unwanted border color. It should be "0" by
                    > default
                    > like version 8.

                    No, it shouldn't. The border attribute is deprecated in HTML 4.0 (see the
                    Reference panel in DW). It should be replaced with this simple CSS on your
                    page -

                    a img { border:none; }

                    On rule hits all the images that are within a hyperlink.

                    > I can't drag a file to the tab bar and be allowed to open it. Not sure why
                    > that's not allowed?

                    It's just not. Never has been.

                    > Viewing in Safari, when clicking back onto Dreamweaver, the top bar will
                    > interact with Safari's tool bar. I have to click on and off to get
                    > Dreamweaver
                    > to draw on top of Safari. When this happens, there are also white flashes
                    > where
                    > windows are blank when clicking once on a tab or design view, then on
                    > second
                    > click the window draws. So anytime I click on the tool bars the page
                    > flashes
                    > white (empty-void of my html) and reappears on next click. This happens on
                    > first start, does not happen if I relaunch DW.

                    I cannot reproduce this at all.

                    --
                    Murray --- ICQ 71997575
                    Adobe Community Expert
                    (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
                    ==================
                    http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                    http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                    ==================


                    "Kid Red" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
                    news:ggaepc$r69$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                    > I'm glad we can get trials. There are a few major issues I'm having.
                    >
                    > Viewing in Safari, when clicking back onto Dreamweaver, the top bar will
                    > interact with Safari's tool bar. I have to click on and off to get
                    > Dreamweaver
                    > to draw on top of Safari. When this happens, there are also white flashes
                    > where
                    > windows are blank when clicking once on a tab or design view, then on
                    > second
                    > click the window draws. So anytime I click on the tool bars the page
                    > flashes
                    > white (empty-void of my html) and reappears on next click. This happens on
                    > first start, does not happen if I relaunch DW.
                    >
                    > Table <td background> background input is gone from the proprieties
                    > palette.
                    >
                    > Table height does not display when selecting a table, only width. So you
                    > have
                    > to go into the code and manually change or delete the table height.
                    >
                    > Some image/graphic outer edge colors do not match the defined html color
                    > on
                    > the page in Dreamweaver but do in Live View and Safari.
                    >
                    > Selecting an image and linking it, automatically populates without a
                    > border="0" resulting in an unwanted border color. It should be "0" by
                    > default
                    > like version 8.
                    >
                    > The color picker is not calibrated correctly. Using the picker on a table
                    > cell
                    > with the bg color of #990000 gives me a reading of #A31B12. And then
                    > getting a
                    > reading on the table cell with #A31B12 the color picker reads #AC3022. So
                    > it
                    > progressively gets lighter, while picking colors from the actual html, if
                    > doing
                    > multiple cells. So not sure how the color pickers needs to be calibrated
                    > to
                    > read the hex value because it's not currently doing that.
                    >
                    > I can't drag a file to the tab bar and be allowed to open it. Not sure why
                    > that's not allowed?
                    >
                    > Now some of these might be the new way DW codes, some might be fixable
                    > with
                    > settings, but the color picker and random flashing and viewing issues with
                    > Safari, linked images with no border seem like actual bugs to me.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >

                    • 7. Re: So many issues with CS4 (bugs/rants)
                      Kid Red Level 1
                      Not sure how to do that. I always assumed that posting in Adobe forums would get Adobe's attention? I'd be more than willing to register a bug report. There are a few with Photoshop I've posted in that forum as well.


                      • 8. Re: So many issues with CS4 (bugs/rants)
                        Kid Red Level 1
                        Thanks for the link, I reported it. It happens in the properties palette and in the page properties window. So all instances of the color picker is buggy basically.
                        • 9. Re: So many issues with CS4 (bugs/rants)
                          Kid Red Level 1
                          quote:

                          Originally posted by: Newsgroup User
                          > Table <td background> background input is gone from the proprieties
                          > palette.

                          No it's not gone, it's under the CSS 'tab' (look on the left side) as a Bg
                          color well and input field.


                          Nope, it's not there. BG color is in the middle on my CSS tab under properties palette. There is no bg inpit filed when clicking inside a table cell.

                          quote:


                          > Table height does not display when selecting a table, only width. So you
                          > have
                          > to go into the code and manually change or delete the table height.

                          As already stated, table height is invalid HTML - always has been.



                          Apologies, I learned from Dreamweaver. And since Dreamweaver 8 (my current program) does have it, I'm conditioned. I will now understand Dreamweaver taught me incorrectly and learn better coding.

                          quote:


                          > Selecting an image and linking it, automatically populates without a
                          > border="0" resulting in an unwanted border color. It should be "0" by
                          > default
                          > like version 8.

                          No, it shouldn't. The border attribute is deprecated in HTML 4.0 (see the
                          Reference panel in DW). It should be replaced with this simple CSS on your
                          page -

                          a img { border:none; }

                          On rule hits all the images that are within a hyperlink.




                          Yes, it should. Like alt tags are defaulted to 'empty' borders should be given a default value. I fail to see why the new version doesn't do this anymore. It should be a CSS option for images then somewhere in the properties palette. If I wanted to hand code everything, I wouldn't be using dreamweaver.
                          quote:


                          > I can't drag a file to the tab bar and be allowed to open it. Not sure why
                          > that's not allowed?

                          It's just not. Never has been.



                          Ah, that's my point. It *should*.

                          quote:


                          > Viewing in Safari, when clicking back onto Dreamweaver, the top bar will
                          > interact with Safari's tool bar. I have to click on and off to get
                          > Dreamweaver
                          > to draw on top of Safari. When this happens, there are also white flashes
                          > where
                          > windows are blank when clicking once on a tab or design view, then on
                          > second
                          > click the window draws. So anytime I click on the tool bars the page
                          > flashes
                          > white (empty-void of my html) and reappears on next click. This happens on
                          > first start, does not happen if I relaunch DW.

                          I cannot reproduce this at all.




                          As stated, it doesn't happen all the times and a relaunch fixes it. Might be an issue with my newest imac graphics card, no idea, just know it has happened each of the three times I've started dreamweaver for a fresh session.
                          • 10. Re: So many issues with CS4 (bugs/rants)
                            JW34 Level 1
                            quote:

                            Originally posted by: CaryD
                            Have either of you filed a bug report to make sure Adobe know?


                            Yes I did.

                            • 11. Re: So many issues with CS4 (bugs/rants)
                              JW34 Level 1
                              quote:

                              Originally posted by: Newsgroup User
                              The workaround is to never use the Page properties thing.

                              But the number typed in is correct and shows in the code. And the page will preview fine in Live View and in browsers. It seems like maybe a color picker/Design View combo issue?
                              • 12. Re: So many issues with CS4 (bugs/rants)
                                Kid Red Level 1
                                quote:

                                Originally posted by: JW34
                                quote:

                                Originally posted by: Newsgroup User
                                The workaround is to never use the Page properties thing.

                                But the number typed in is correct and shows in the code. And the page will preview fine in Live View and in browsers. It seems like maybe a color picker/Design View combo issue?



                                However, it does the same thing in the page properties window dialog which does not factor in the design view.
                                • 13. Re: So many issues with CS4 (bugs/rants)
                                  Level 7
                                  > Nope, it's not there. BG color is in the middle on my CSS tab under
                                  > properties
                                  > palette. There is no bg inpit filed when clicking inside a table cell.

                                  Yeah - it's there. But I was mistaken - it's in both the HTML and the CSS
                                  'tab' of the EXPANDED Property inspector - you have to click on the little
                                  almost invisible white triangle on the lower right-hand corner of the
                                  inspector to see the expanded section.

                                  > Yes, it should. Like alt tags are defaulted to 'empty' borders should be
                                  > given
                                  > a default value

                                  Nope. That would produce invalid HTML.

                                  > I wanted to hand code everything, I wouldn't be using dreamweaver.

                                  If you are not willing to learn some HTML and CSS, as well as best
                                  practices, then you shouldn't be using DW.

                                  --
                                  Murray --- ICQ 71997575
                                  Adobe Community Expert
                                  (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
                                  ==================
                                  http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                  http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                  ==================


                                  "Kid Red" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
                                  news:ggc088$pcp$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                  >
                                  quote:

                                  Originally posted by: Newsgroup User
                                  > > Table <td background> background input is gone from the proprieties
                                  > > palette.
                                  >
                                  > No it's not gone, it's under the CSS 'tab' (look on the left side) as a Bg
                                  > color well and input field.

                                  >
                                  > Nope, it's not there. BG color is in the middle on my CSS tab under
                                  > properties
                                  > palette. There is no bg inpit filed when clicking inside a table cell.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  quote:


                                  > > Table height does not display when selecting a table, only width. So you
                                  > > have
                                  > > to go into the code and manually change or delete the table height.
                                  >
                                  > As already stated, table height is invalid HTML - always has been.
                                  >

                                  >
                                  > Apologies, I learned from Dreamweaver. And since Dreamweaver 8 (my current
                                  > program) does have it, I'm conditioned. I will now understand Dreamweaver
                                  > taught me incorrectly and learn better coding.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  quote:


                                  > > Selecting an image and linking it, automatically populates without a
                                  > > border="0" resulting in an unwanted border color. It should be "0" by
                                  > > default
                                  > > like version 8.
                                  >
                                  > No, it shouldn't. The border attribute is deprecated in HTML 4.0 (see the
                                  > Reference panel in DW). It should be replaced with this simple CSS on
                                  > your
                                  > page -
                                  >
                                  > a img { border:none; }
                                  >
                                  > On rule hits all the images that are within a hyperlink.
                                  >
                                  >

                                  >
                                  > Yes, it should. Like alt tags are defaulted to 'empty' borders should be
                                  > given
                                  > a default value. I fail to see why the new version doesn't do this
                                  > anymore. It
                                  > should be a CSS option for images then somewhere in the properties
                                  > palette. If
                                  > I wanted to hand code everything, I wouldn't be using dreamweaver.
                                  >
                                  quote:


                                  > > I can't drag a file to the tab bar and be allowed to open it. Not sure
                                  > > why
                                  > > that's not allowed?
                                  >
                                  > It's just not. Never has been.
                                  >

                                  >
                                  > Ah, that's my point. It *should*.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  quote:


                                  > > Viewing in Safari, when clicking back onto Dreamweaver, the top bar will
                                  > > interact with Safari's tool bar. I have to click on and off to get
                                  > > Dreamweaver
                                  > > to draw on top of Safari. When this happens, there are also white
                                  > > flashes
                                  > > where
                                  > > windows are blank when clicking once on a tab or design view, then on
                                  > > second
                                  > > click the window draws. So anytime I click on the tool bars the page
                                  > > flashes
                                  > > white (empty-void of my html) and reappears on next click. This happens
                                  > > on
                                  > > first start, does not happen if I relaunch DW.
                                  >
                                  > I cannot reproduce this at all.
                                  >
                                  >

                                  >
                                  > As stated, it doesn't happen all the times and a relaunch fixes it. Might
                                  > be
                                  > an issue with my newest imac graphics card, no idea, just know it has
                                  > happened
                                  > each of the three times I've started dreamweaver for a fresh session.
                                  >

                                  • 14. Re: So many issues with CS4 (bugs/rants)
                                    Level 7
                                    JW34 wrote:
                                    > But the number typed in is correct and shows in the code. And the page will
                                    > preview fine in Live View and in browsers. It seems like maybe a color
                                    > picker/Design View combo issue?

                                    Are you using a Mac? I can reproduce this on my MacBook Pro, but the
                                    correct colour is rendered in the Windows version. I suspect it might be
                                    a platform-specific problem.

                                    Obviously, what you're experiencing is not right, but it's not
                                    reproducible on all installations (which would explain why it wasn't
                                    discovered during the testing process). For the engineering team to
                                    isolate the problem, you need to file a bug report giving details of
                                    your computer configuration (operating system, graphics card, etc).

                                    http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform

                                    --
                                    David Powers, Adobe Community Expert
                                    Author, "The Essential Guide to Dreamweaver CS3" (friends of ED)
                                    Author, "PHP Solutions" (friends of ED)
                                    http://foundationphp.com/
                                    • 15. Re: So many issues with CS4 (bugs/rants)
                                      Level 7
                                      "Murray *ACE*" <forums@HAHAgreat-web-sights.com> wrote in message
                                      news:ggc2sd$sfi$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                      >> Yes, it should. Like alt tags are defaulted to 'empty' borders should be
                                      >> given
                                      >> a default value
                                      >
                                      > Nope. That would produce invalid HTML.
                                      >
                                      >> I wanted to hand code everything, I wouldn't be using dreamweaver.
                                      >
                                      > If you are not willing to learn some HTML and CSS, as well as best
                                      > practices, then you shouldn't be using DW.

                                      I agree... but really, there is a way that Adobe could get around this
                                      issue. Have some almost universally-wanted things available via a shortcut
                                      that would automatically write the proper CSS code. DW already puts out
                                      proper CSS code for lots of things without the inexperienced user having a
                                      clue what it's doing.

                                      But DW has always been more oriented toward those willing to do a bit of
                                      heavy lifting. I suppose that's not likely to change. :)

                                      tim


                                      • 16. Re: So many issues with CS4 (bugs/rants)
                                        JW34 Level 1
                                        quote:

                                        Originally posted by: Newsgroup User
                                        Are you using a Mac? I can reproduce this on my MacBook Pro, but the
                                        correct colour is rendered in the Windows version. I suspect it might be
                                        a platform-specific problem.

                                        Obviously, what you're experiencing is not right, but it's not
                                        reproducible on all installations (which would explain why it wasn't
                                        discovered during the testing process). For the engineering team to
                                        isolate the problem, you need to file a bug report giving details of
                                        your computer configuration (operating system, graphics card, etc).



                                        Yes I'm using a Mac. I did enter all the pertinent info in my bug report although I don't remember the graphic card question as an option.
                                        • 17. Re: So many issues with CS4 (bugs/rants)
                                          Level 7
                                          JW34 wrote:
                                          > Yes I'm using a Mac. I did enter all the pertinent info in my bug report
                                          > although I don't remember the graphic card question as an option.

                                          No, the bug report form doesn't ask specifically about graphics cards,
                                          but any relevant information is always helpful when diagnosing a
                                          problem. Judging from several reports that I've seen, it looks almost
                                          certain to be a Mac-only problem. It's strange that nobody seems to have
                                          spotted it during beta testing.

                                          If it does turn out to be a Mac-only problem, the next step will be to
                                          establish whether it affects all Macs or just certain types.

                                          --
                                          David Powers, Adobe Community Expert
                                          Author, "The Essential Guide to Dreamweaver CS3" (friends of ED)
                                          Author, "PHP Solutions" (friends of ED)
                                          http://foundationphp.com/
                                          • 18. Re: So many issues with CS4 (bugs/rants)
                                            Level 7
                                            Tim G wrote:
                                            > I agree... but really, there is a way that Adobe could get around this
                                            > issue. Have some almost universally-wanted things available via a shortcut
                                            > that would automatically write the proper CSS code.

                                            Not a bad idea. Why not submit a formal feature request?

                                            http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform

                                            --
                                            David Powers, Adobe Community Expert
                                            Author, "The Essential Guide to Dreamweaver CS3" (friends of ED)
                                            Author, "PHP Solutions" (friends of ED)
                                            http://foundationphp.com/
                                            • 19. Re: So many issues with CS4 (bugs/rants)
                                              JW34 Level 1
                                              quote:

                                              Originally posted by: Newsgroup UserIf it does turn out to be a Mac-only problem, the next step will be to
                                              establish whether it affects all Macs or just certain types.


                                              As an FYI, my card is a NVIDIA GeForce 6600 in a Dual 2.3 Power Mac G5
                                              • 20. Re: So many issues with CS4 (bugs/rants)
                                                Level 7
                                                And mine is an iMac Intel Core 2 Duo, with ATI Radeon HD 2400 graphics.

                                                --
                                                Murray --- ICQ 71997575
                                                Adobe Community Expert
                                                (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
                                                ==================
                                                http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                                http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                                ==================


                                                "JW34" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
                                                news:ggeh1t$2ng$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                                >
                                                quote:

                                                Originally posted by: Newsgroup UserIf it does
                                                > turn out
                                                > to be a Mac-only problem, the next step will be to
                                                > establish whether it affects all Macs or just certain types.

                                                >
                                                > As an FYI, my card is a NVIDIA GeForce 6600 in a Dual 2.3 Power Mac G5
                                                >
                                                >

                                                • 21. Re: So many issues with CS4 (bugs/rants)
                                                  Kid Red Level 1
                                                  quote:

                                                  Originally posted by: Newsgroup User
                                                  > Nope, it's not there. BG color is in the middle on my CSS tab under
                                                  > properties
                                                  > palette. There is no bg inpit filed when clicking inside a table cell.

                                                  Yeah - it's there. But I was mistaken - it's in both the HTML and the CSS
                                                  'tab' of the EXPANDED Property inspector - you have to click on the little
                                                  almost invisible white triangle on the lower right-hand corner of the
                                                  inspector to see the expanded section.



                                                  I have it expanded (that's how I work in DW) and there is no background field when I click inside a table cell with either HTML or CSS tab selected. Not sure why you see that field and I don not.

                                                  quote:


                                                  > Yes, it should. Like alt tags are defaulted to 'empty' borders should be
                                                  > given
                                                  > a default value

                                                  Nope. That would produce invalid HTML.


                                                  Well, DW 8 does it. CS4 does it so I fail to see how it's invalid? I have to enter "0" each time I link an image, where as in DW8, it entered a default value of 0. Show me where <img ... border="0" /> is invalid?

                                                  quote:


                                                  > I wanted to hand code everything, I wouldn't be using dreamweaver.

                                                  If you are not willing to learn some HTML and CSS, as well as best
                                                  practices, then you shouldn't be using DW.



                                                  I'm sorry, but that's absurd. I use DW to save time from hand coding. To say that I 'should learn code' because I don't want to waste time hand coding every image in my designs is really foolish. The point of using DW is so I don't have to hand code anything. Obviously, I can go a img { border:none; } if I wanted it in the CSS or inline <img ... border="0" /> each and every image, but why should I when DW8 did it for me? Seems they left off a feature.
                                                  • 22. Re: So many issues with CS4 (bugs/rants)
                                                    Level 7
                                                    > I have it expanded (that's how I work in DW) and there is no background
                                                    > field
                                                    > when I click inside a table cell with either HTML or CSS tab selected. Not
                                                    > sure
                                                    > why you see that field and I don not.

                                                    http://www.great-web-sights.com/images/bg.jpg

                                                    > Well, DW 8 does it.

                                                    Who cares? It was invalid then, and it's invalid now.

                                                    > I'm sorry, but that's absurd. I use DW to save time from hand coding. To
                                                    > say
                                                    > that I 'should learn code' because I don't want to waste time hand coding
                                                    > every
                                                    > image in my designs is really foolish.

                                                    Nobody is saying you have to do that. I use DW's shortcuts for code all
                                                    day. But I KNOW what is happening. Without knowing the code, you do not.
                                                    So, I'll say it again: if you aren't willing to learn the HTML and CSS that
                                                    underlies everything you do in DW, then DW is not the right product for you.

                                                    --
                                                    Murray --- ICQ 71997575
                                                    Adobe Community Expert
                                                    (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
                                                    ==================
                                                    http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                                    http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                                    ==================


                                                    "Kid Red" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
                                                    news:ggfivv$e59$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                                    >
                                                    quote:

                                                    Originally posted by: Newsgroup User
                                                    > > Nope, it's not there. BG color is in the middle on my CSS tab under
                                                    > > properties
                                                    > > palette. There is no bg inpit filed when clicking inside a table cell.
                                                    >
                                                    > Yeah - it's there. But I was mistaken - it's in both the HTML and the CSS
                                                    > 'tab' of the EXPANDED Property inspector - you have to click on the little
                                                    > almost invisible white triangle on the lower right-hand corner of the
                                                    > inspector to see the expanded section.
                                                    >

                                                    >
                                                    > I have it expanded (that's how I work in DW) and there is no background
                                                    > field
                                                    > when I click inside a table cell with either HTML or CSS tab selected. Not
                                                    > sure
                                                    > why you see that field and I don not.
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    quote:


                                                    > > Yes, it should. Like alt tags are defaulted to 'empty' borders should be
                                                    > > given
                                                    > > a default value
                                                    >
                                                    > Nope. That would produce invalid HTML.
                                                    >

                                                    > Well, DW 8 does it. CS4 does it so I fail to see how it's invalid? I have
                                                    > to
                                                    > enter "0" each time I link an image, where as in DW8, it entered a default
                                                    > value of 0. Show me where <img ... border="0" /> is invalid?
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    quote:


                                                    > > I wanted to hand code everything, I wouldn't be using dreamweaver.
                                                    >
                                                    > If you are not willing to learn some HTML and CSS, as well as best
                                                    > practices, then you shouldn't be using DW.
                                                    >

                                                    >
                                                    > I'm sorry, but that's absurd. I use DW to save time from hand coding. To
                                                    > say
                                                    > that I 'should learn code' because I don't want to waste time hand coding
                                                    > every
                                                    > image in my designs is really foolish. The point of using DW is so I don't
                                                    > have
                                                    > to hand code anything. Obviously, I can go a img { border:none; } if I
                                                    > wanted
                                                    > it in the CSS or inline <img ... border="0" /> each and every image, but
                                                    > why
                                                    > should I when DW8 did it for me? Seems they left off a feature.
                                                    >

                                                    • 23. Re: So many issues with CS4 (bugs/rants)
                                                      Level 7
                                                      "Kid Red" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
                                                      news:ggfivv$e59$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                                      > If you are not willing to learn some HTML and CSS, as well as best
                                                      > practices, then you shouldn't be using DW.
                                                      >

                                                      >
                                                      > I'm sorry, but that's absurd. I use DW to save time from hand coding. To
                                                      > say
                                                      > that I 'should learn code' because I don't want to waste time hand coding
                                                      > every
                                                      > image in my designs is really foolish. The point of using DW is so I don't
                                                      > have
                                                      > to hand code anything. Obviously, I can go a img { border:none; } if I
                                                      > wanted
                                                      > it in the CSS or inline <img ... border="0" /> each and every image, but
                                                      > why
                                                      > should I when DW8 did it for me? Seems they left off a feature.

                                                      Kid, that may make a great deal of sense to you. I've been there. I started
                                                      off by using a spectrum of web software that aimed/claimed to do the sort of
                                                      thing you're after. And always, always, always, those sorts of applications
                                                      end in frustration.

                                                      DW provides shortcuts for a bunch of things. Could it have more? Sure. And
                                                      it also has panels for you to input values into rather than coding directly
                                                      by hand.

                                                      But given the nature of HTML and CSS, it's highly unlikely that DW is ever
                                                      going to be the sort of software you seem to want. That's because it's aimed
                                                      at professional-level development. Anyone who refuses to learn code is going
                                                      to be frustrated with it. But the other side of that is that if you refuse
                                                      to learn code, you'll also get frustrated with the alternatives when you
                                                      discover that your pages break under all sorts of scenarios.

                                                      If you can't handle either of those frustrations... you've taken up the
                                                      wrong hobby, sorry to say....

                                                      I'm not chiding you. Like I said, I've been there. I tried to use the
                                                      so-called WYSIWYG junk for about five years. Honestly... it's easier to
                                                      learn HTML and CSS than it is to fight with that.

                                                      --
                                                      Tim G.
                                                      http://www.pactumweb.com
                                                      http://www.shortordersite.com


                                                      • 24. Re: So many issues with CS4 (bugs/rants)
                                                        Kid Red Level 1
                                                        Web design is my day job, and career for 8 years now. I don't have a problem building sites and this isn't about learning code. It's about DW not doing some of the expected things it used to do.

                                                        Though I admit I am more design and heavily graphics focused. I know html, I know CSS, but I'm not an expert. I just expected DW CS4 to do a little more so I don't have to it, just what it's done before that seemed to be compliant to me. That's my whole point to this thread, CS4 doesn't do what DW8 used to do, which was make my life a little easier. That's all.



                                                        • 25. Re: So many issues with CS4 (bugs/rants)
                                                          Level 7
                                                          Kid Red wrote:
                                                          > Web design is my day job, and career for 8 years now. I don't have a problem
                                                          > building sites and this isn't about learning code. It's about DW not doing some
                                                          > of the expected things it used to do.
                                                          >
                                                          > Though I admit I am more design and heavily graphics focused. I know html, I
                                                          > know CSS, but I'm not an expert. I just expected DW CS4 to do a little more so
                                                          > I don't have to it, just what it's done before that seemed to be compliant to
                                                          > me. That's my whole point to this thread, CS4 doesn't do what DW8 used to do,
                                                          > which was make my life a little easier. That's all.

                                                          As many have already pointed out, using border="0" is depreciated code,
                                                          if you were to worry about valid code then you would have to remove all
                                                          these border="0" and replace it with one piece of CSS in your
                                                          stylesheet. CS4 has moved on from DW8 to stop the user from making
                                                          invalid code as much as possible, hence the removal of the this feature
                                                          that you want back.

                                                          Maybe someone can make an extension that creates a panel that gives you
                                                          back all these invalid features that were removed?

                                                          Dooza
                                                          • 26. Re: So many issues with CS4 (bugs/rants)
                                                            Level 7
                                                            Kid Red posted in macromedia.dreamweaver:

                                                            > Web design is my day job, and career for 8 years now. I don't have
                                                            > a problem building sites and this isn't about learning code. It's
                                                            > about DW not doing some of the expected things it used to do.

                                                            But it used to do some things incorrectly. What use for program
                                                            updates if they don't update the programs?

                                                            I don't dive directly into the specs often, but you made me
                                                            curious, so I had to see what I could find. :)

                                                            This page shows that the border attribute for image links was
                                                            deprecated in HTML 4.0:
                                                            http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/struct/objects.html#h-13.7.3
                                                            And it is not listed in the attributes here:
                                                            http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/struct/objects.html#h-13.2

                                                            Note that HTML 4.0 is nearly 9 years old and has already been
                                                            replaced by 4.01 - with 5.0 on the way.

                                                            I noticed in one of your other posts that you used an XHTML
                                                            element ending />. I'm not sure which version you're using,
                                                            but in XHTML 1.1 "Changes from XHTML 1.0 Strict" is the following:

                                                            "XHTML 1.1 represents a departure from both HTML 4 and XHTML 1.0.
                                                            Most significant is the removal of features that were deprecated.
                                                            In general, the strategy is to define a markup language that is
                                                            rich in structural functionality, but that relies upon style
                                                            sheets for presentation."

                                                            The previously mentioned attribute clearly is not listed here:
                                                            http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml-modularization/abstract_modules.html#s_imagemodule
                                                            or here:
                                                            http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml-modularization/dtd_module_defs.html#a_module_Image

                                                            In other words, it is already obsolete in XHTML 1.1

                                                            Sure, browsers are written to support older recommendations and
                                                            standards for a while, and to try their best to render invalid
                                                            code, but why write 20th century code? A large part of the
                                                            challenge of creating pages compatible with the most browsers is
                                                            solved by writing valid code for a given valid DOCTYPE.

                                                            I guess the above is a really long way of saying that I think
                                                            Adobe is doing the right thing by trying to keep up with the W3C
                                                            recommendations - and indirectly encouraging us to do the same.

                                                            And now that I'm ready to hit Send, I see that Dooza said
                                                            it all in two paragraphs! Oh well, I needed to read some
                                                            dry text anyway. And it was fun reading Tim Berners-Lee's
                                                            original proposal again that resulted in the creation of the WWW.

                                                            I suppose I should provide a hypertext link:
                                                            http://www.w3.org/History/1989/proposal.html



                                                            --
                                                            Mark A. Boyd
                                                            Still Learnin' :)
                                                            • 27. Re: So many issues with CS4 (bugs/rants)
                                                              Level 7
                                                              Mark A. Boyd wrote:
                                                              > And now that I'm ready to hit Send, I see that Dooza said
                                                              > it all in two paragraphs! Oh well, I needed to read some
                                                              > dry text anyway. And it was fun reading Tim Berners-Lee's
                                                              > original proposal again that resulted in the creation of the WWW.

                                                              But your's is much better, full of useful links that should educate the OP.

                                                              > I suppose I should provide a hypertext link:
                                                              > http://www.w3.org/History/1989/proposal.html

                                                              Very interesting, even if it is very geeky!

                                                              Dooza
                                                              • 28. Re: So many issues with CS4 (bugs/rants)
                                                                Level 7
                                                                FWIW, XHTML1.1 is not worth spending too much time on. As I understand it,
                                                                it's a flawed implementation....

                                                                --
                                                                Murray --- ICQ 71997575
                                                                Adobe Community Expert
                                                                (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
                                                                ==================
                                                                http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                                                http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                                                ==================


                                                                "Mark A. Boyd" <lingoboyd@mboydDotcom.invalid> wrote in message
                                                                news:Xns9B611173F2B10mblistssanDotrrcom@216.104.212.96...
                                                                > Kid Red posted in macromedia.dreamweaver:
                                                                >
                                                                >> Web design is my day job, and career for 8 years now. I don't have
                                                                >> a problem building sites and this isn't about learning code. It's
                                                                >> about DW not doing some of the expected things it used to do.
                                                                >
                                                                > But it used to do some things incorrectly. What use for program
                                                                > updates if they don't update the programs?
                                                                >
                                                                > I don't dive directly into the specs often, but you made me
                                                                > curious, so I had to see what I could find. :)
                                                                >
                                                                > This page shows that the border attribute for image links was
                                                                > deprecated in HTML 4.0:
                                                                > http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/struct/objects.html#h-13.7.3
                                                                > And it is not listed in the attributes here:
                                                                > http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/struct/objects.html#h-13.2
                                                                >
                                                                > Note that HTML 4.0 is nearly 9 years old and has already been
                                                                > replaced by 4.01 - with 5.0 on the way.
                                                                >
                                                                > I noticed in one of your other posts that you used an XHTML
                                                                > element ending />. I'm not sure which version you're using,
                                                                > but in XHTML 1.1 "Changes from XHTML 1.0 Strict" is the following:
                                                                >
                                                                > "XHTML 1.1 represents a departure from both HTML 4 and XHTML 1.0.
                                                                > Most significant is the removal of features that were deprecated.
                                                                > In general, the strategy is to define a markup language that is
                                                                > rich in structural functionality, but that relies upon style
                                                                > sheets for presentation."
                                                                >
                                                                > The previously mentioned attribute clearly is not listed here:
                                                                > http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml-modularization/abstract_modules.html#s_imagemodule
                                                                > or here:
                                                                > http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml-modularization/dtd_module_defs.html#a_module_Image
                                                                >
                                                                > In other words, it is already obsolete in XHTML 1.1
                                                                >
                                                                > Sure, browsers are written to support older recommendations and
                                                                > standards for a while, and to try their best to render invalid
                                                                > code, but why write 20th century code? A large part of the
                                                                > challenge of creating pages compatible with the most browsers is
                                                                > solved by writing valid code for a given valid DOCTYPE.
                                                                >
                                                                > I guess the above is a really long way of saying that I think
                                                                > Adobe is doing the right thing by trying to keep up with the W3C
                                                                > recommendations - and indirectly encouraging us to do the same.
                                                                >
                                                                > And now that I'm ready to hit Send, I see that Dooza said
                                                                > it all in two paragraphs! Oh well, I needed to read some
                                                                > dry text anyway. And it was fun reading Tim Berners-Lee's
                                                                > original proposal again that resulted in the creation of the WWW.
                                                                >
                                                                > I suppose I should provide a hypertext link:
                                                                > http://www.w3.org/History/1989/proposal.html
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                > --
                                                                > Mark A. Boyd
                                                                > Still Learnin' :)

                                                                • 29. Re: So many issues with CS4 (bugs/rants)
                                                                  Level 7
                                                                  Murray *ACE* posted in macromedia.dreamweaver:

                                                                  > FWIW, XHTML1.1 is not worth spending too much time on. As I
                                                                  > understand it, it's a flawed implementation....

                                                                  Yea, so I've heard.

                                                                  BTW, in all that copy/paste frenzy, I somehow missed this from the
                                                                  same 9 year old spec:

                                                                  "The HTML 4.01 Strict DTD includes all elements and attributes that
                                                                  have not been deprecated or do not appear in frameset documents."

                                                                  http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/global.html#h-7.2

                                                                  So the border attribute for image links appears to be obsolete in HTML
                                                                  4.01 Strict, too.

                                                                  Perhaps Adobe is trying to play catch-up from some Macromedia
                                                                  oversights?


                                                                  --
                                                                  Mark A. Boyd
                                                                  Keep-On-Learnin' :)
                                                                  • 30. Re: So many issues with CS4 (bugs/rants)
                                                                    Level 7
                                                                    Dooza posted in macromedia.dreamweaver:

                                                                    > Mark A. Boyd wrote:

                                                                    [snip]

                                                                    >> And it was fun reading Tim Berners-Lee's
                                                                    >> original proposal again that resulted in the creation of the WWW.
                                                                    >>
                                                                    >> I suppose I should provide a hypertext link:
                                                                    >> http://www.w3.org/History/1989/proposal.html
                                                                    >
                                                                    > Very interesting, even if it is very geeky!

                                                                    :-)

                                                                    Where would we be today without such geeks?


                                                                    --
                                                                    Mark A. Boyd
                                                                    Keep-On-Learnin' :)
                                                                    • 31. Re: So many issues with CS4 (bugs/rants)
                                                                      Level 7
                                                                      > Perhaps Adobe is trying to play catch-up from some Macromedia
                                                                      > oversights?

                                                                      Definitely. It's this attitude that has led to the demise of Layout mode,
                                                                      layers to tables, and all of the 'missing' options in the Property
                                                                      inspector. There are more, and more to come as well.

                                                                      --
                                                                      Murray --- ICQ 71997575
                                                                      Adobe Community Expert
                                                                      (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
                                                                      ==================
                                                                      http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                                                      http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                                                      ==================


                                                                      "Mark A. Boyd" <lingoboyd@mboydDotcom.invalid> wrote in message
                                                                      news:Xns9B612F6C7B67CmblistssanDotrrcom@216.104.212.96...
                                                                      > Murray *ACE* posted in macromedia.dreamweaver:
                                                                      >
                                                                      >> FWIW, XHTML1.1 is not worth spending too much time on. As I
                                                                      >> understand it, it's a flawed implementation....
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Yea, so I've heard.
                                                                      >
                                                                      > BTW, in all that copy/paste frenzy, I somehow missed this from the
                                                                      > same 9 year old spec:
                                                                      >
                                                                      > "The HTML 4.01 Strict DTD includes all elements and attributes that
                                                                      > have not been deprecated or do not appear in frameset documents."
                                                                      >
                                                                      > http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/global.html#h-7.2
                                                                      >
                                                                      > So the border attribute for image links appears to be obsolete in HTML
                                                                      > 4.01 Strict, too.
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Perhaps Adobe is trying to play catch-up from some Macromedia
                                                                      > oversights?
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      > --
                                                                      > Mark A. Boyd
                                                                      > Keep-On-Learnin' :)

                                                                      • 32. Re: So many issues with CS4 (bugs/rants)
                                                                        Level 7
                                                                        Mark A. Boyd wrote:
                                                                        > Perhaps Adobe is trying to play catch-up from some Macromedia
                                                                        > oversights?

                                                                        I don't think it's an Adobe versus Macromedia thing. There has been
                                                                        pressure on the Dreamweaver team since 2001 to make the program more
                                                                        standards-compliant:

                                                                        http://www.webstandards.org/action/dwtf

                                                                        The first response was the release of Dreamweaver MX in 2002. Each new
                                                                        version since then has made considerable strides towards that goal, but
                                                                        it's still not there.

                                                                        --
                                                                        David Powers, Adobe Community Expert
                                                                        Author, "The Essential Guide to Dreamweaver CS4",
                                                                        "PHP Solutions" & "PHP Object-Oriented Solutions"
                                                                        http://foundationphp.com/