1 2 Previous Next 41 Replies Latest reply on Jan 26, 2009 1:22 PM by (Travis_Minchew)

    Smartsounds in Premier - Is it really this bad

      Today I just discovered you can use smartsounds in PP CS3, this is good I thinks, finally I can get rid of my Pinnacle software.

      So I download the software, get my smartsounds library all sorted, go to add a track & WHAT. I have to specify the length. I can't just pop the track into my timeline & drag it to the length I want?

      Am I being stupid or is this correct?

      This drag to any length & smartsounds adjusts itself length wise was what made it such a wonderful bit of software, but now to use this in premier I have to figure out exactly what time length I need, someone please tell me I'm missing something :-))) Else I'm not getting rid of Pinnacle after all.
        • 1. Re: Smartsounds in Premier - Is it really this bad
          Jim_Simon Level 8
          SmartSound as a Premiere plug-in has always worked that way, as it creates a separate .wav file once the decisions are made.
          • 2. Re: Smartsounds in Premier - Is it really this bad
            Level 1
            Well that seems just plain daft, too my mind that was the main selling point of smart sounds, that you can adjust the length of the clip just by dragging left or right.

            Can get royalty free music anywhere...

            So other that make my film in premier & then load it into Pinnacle to add the smart sounds track do I have any other alternatives?
            • 3. Re: Smartsounds in Premier - Is it really this bad
              Level 1
              OK so looking into this daft unable to adjust the length of smartsounds by dragging in premier & here http://www.smartsound.com/premiere/ it says (3rd paragraph down)

              Featured Highlights
              If you need a music score to be a little longer or a little shorter, just resize the music on your Premiere timeline and Quicktracks will compose a new version of that song to fit your scene perfectly. Its like having a composer helping you on every project.

              However it doesn't actually do that, so that paragraph is false :-( Misleading & a darn right lie actually.

              Seems the only way to do it is to double click the track, a little box pops up & I assume you enter in the new time you want. I can only assume though as every time I click OK PPCS3 crashes with error:-
              [..\..\Src\Win\WinPathUtils.cpp-427]

              :-(
              • 4. Re: Smartsounds in Premier - Is it really this bad
                Curt Wrigley Level 4
                Are you thinking clearly? Smartsound creates an arrangement of real music using real recorded bands based on the length you specify. Thats pretty darn clever if you ask me.
                • 5. Re: Smartsounds in Premier - Is it really this bad
                  the_wine_snob Level 9
                  Simon,

                  You CAN re-size Smartsound. It will then reproduce the music to the new length, that you specify. QuickTracks will give you a message, that it will reconstruct the music to the new length, an it takes seconds to do. Do not use the Rate Stretch Tool, but just change the length of the Audio file. Works the treat for me.

                  Hunt
                  • 6. Re: Smartsounds in Premier - Is it really this bad
                    Level 1
                    Are you thinking clearly? Smartsound creates an arrangement of real music using real recorded bands based on the length you specify. Thats pretty darn clever if you ask me.

                    Yeah that's clever but nowhere near as clever as in Pinnacle Studio where you can drag the clip to the length, now that's clever.

                    You CAN re-size Smartsound. It will then reproduce the music to the new length, that you specify.
                    Can you tell me how then? I'm not using the rate stretch tool, I've just got the selection tool (v) active.
                    If I drag from either end of the smartsound track it will either, make it shorter & then when played the track will just cut off.
                    Or if the track is at the end I cannot make it any longer?

                    The only option I get is to double click on the track & then manually enter the time, please can you elaborate Bill Hunt, or anyone?
                    • 7. Re: Smartsounds in Premier - Is it really this bad
                      Harm Millaard Level 7
                      > The only option I get is to double click on the track & then manually enter the time

                      That seems correct. So what?
                      • 8. Re: Smartsounds in Premier - Is it really this bad
                        Level 1
                        That seems correct. So what?

                        Okay you guys obviously don't realize how smartsounds works in Pinnacle Studio ever since I dscovered Pinnacle version 9.

                        In Pinnacle you select your smart sound track you want & click add to movie. The track is added. Now comes the beautiful part.
                        You drag the track, on the timeline & you move it left or right, ie make it shorter or longer. You don't type any time numbers in, you just drag. Thus you can align it beautifully with the track above or below.

                        So when coming to Premier Pro which is superior software I am very surprised & annoyed that smartsounds doesn't work this way here.

                        To have to type in a time number each time?
                        You can't just be precise via your eye & dragging.
                        You have to work at the times from where you want the clip to start & where to end & as your not necessarily starting at a track edit not so easy.
                        Big shame :-(
                        • 9. Re: Smartsounds in Premier - Is it really this bad
                          Curt Wrigley Level 4
                          I suggest to complain to Smartsound if you find the functionality unacceptable.
                          • 10. Re: Smartsounds in Premier - Is it really this bad
                            Level 1
                            I suggest to complain to Smartsound if you find the functionality unacceptable.

                            Ooooohhhhhh get you...
                            • 11. Re: Smartsounds in Premier - Is it really this bad
                              Jim_Simon Level 8
                              You poke fun, but Curt's seemingly obvious comment did appear beyond your initial grasp.
                              • 12. Re: Smartsounds in Premier - Is it really this bad
                                Level 1
                                Nope wasn't beyond my grasp. His comment was bitchy, thus my reply.

                                What is beyond my grasp is why the fantastic feature of smartsounds in Pinnacle, ala drag & time, isn't available in the superior premier pro software.
                                • 13. Re: Smartsounds in Premier - Is it really this bad
                                  Curt Wrigley Level 4
                                  Ergo my suggestion to ask the people who wrote the software. Yet you keep asking users of ppro for some reason. Would you like us to call smartsound for you and ask them?
                                  • 14. Re: Smartsounds in Premier - Is it really this bad
                                    Level 1
                                    Oh yes please Cwrig would you please call them up & ask them for me, what an incredibly stupid attitude you have.

                                    I ask the people here because that is what forums are for, advice & discussion, I wanted a simple question answered re smartsounds & the way it works in Pinnacle vs Premier.

                                    Its a FACT that it doesn't work as well in Premier, thus my surprise & annoyance.

                                    Twit
                                    • 15. Re: Smartsounds in Premier - Is it really this bad
                                      Level 1
                                      Simon, I think we all hear your complaint, but there's not much any of us can do. And name calling won't win you much favor in these forums.

                                      I use Smartsounds all the time, and while the feature you mention would be nice to have, sorry to say it's not part of the PPro plugin.

                                      But you might think of pointing this out to the people who make the plugin - maybe you can take the same level of enthusiasm there and get them to make a change - I would love to have that ability.
                                      • 16. Re: Smartsounds in Premier - Is it really this bad
                                        Level 1
                                        Apologies, didn't want to be insulting anyone but when people are sarcastic then off course it gets my goat up.

                                        Yes I guess an email to Smartsounds is in order.
                                        • 17. Re: Smartsounds in Premier - Is it really this bad
                                          Level 1
                                          [A doff o' the cap to Eric for a well-crafted, neutral response.]
                                          • 18. Re: Smartsounds in Premier - Is it really this bad
                                            Simon,
                                            I have had "Quicktracks" for several years and with PremPro 1.5, it worked as you described, without Pinacle, as a plugin for Prem Pro ie I accessed it File - New - Smartsound and I would make a long version of the .wav file and could just drag then end and it would re-do the piece so it would end where I had dragged.
                                            Then I got CS3 PRoduction Premium, and I called Smartsound to see if my Quicktracks would work with PremPRO CS3 and the tech told me that they hadn't worked out the bugs with CS3 yet and I would have to use "Sonicfire PRo 4" which came "free" with a disk of musical pieces.
                                            I got that, but it is not a plug-in, but a separate program and since it isn't a plug-in, it won't do the re-arrange thing. I have to specify the length in Sonicfire pro 4 and then save it and import it into Prepro CS3.
                                            Unless someone else with CS3 can suggest some other way to work with it, I think I'm stuck with what I have.
                                            However, I would suggest calling them and not email if you are in the "States", as they have a good tech guy, and he is easy to get to(at least I didn't have to wait for the call).
                                            I'd like to hear what you find out.
                                            John Rich
                                            • 19. Re: Smartsounds in Premier - Is it really this bad
                                              Level 1
                                              John,

                                              I use the Quicktracks plugin with PPro CS3, and it works great. I don't have the ability to simply drag the end to change the length, but I use it inside PPro.

                                              http://www.smartsound.com/support/answers/link.php?id=863
                                              • 20. Re: Smartsounds in Premier - Is it really this bad
                                                Level 1
                                                Eric,
                                                Thanks for that link. Did you use an older version of Quicktracks or get a new one?
                                                It still seems it doesn't work the way it did with PremPro 1.5 which IMHO is better. That's not really not different from using Sonicfire Pro "outside" of PPCS3 is it?

                                                John
                                                • 21. Re: Smartsounds in Premier - Is it really this bad
                                                  Level 1
                                                  John

                                                  I'm UK based so a phone call is out of the question really, will have to be an email which I will do later on & I'll update this topic with the reply if one is forthcoming.

                                                  Well I'm glad to know that it used to work & that it's a bug thing that is preventing it from working in CS3, however as CS3 has been out for ages now I would have thought they would have sorted it by now if they intended too.

                                                  It's such a brilliant way of using the tracks that I can't use the type in the time method, I am going to have to do the bulk of my edits in CS3, render & then open up in Pinnacle & add my smart sounds their. Its a shame & also as I still find Pinnacle buggy & I feel the need to save every time I've made an edit.
                                                  • 22. Re: Smartsounds in Premier - Is it really this bad
                                                    Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional
                                                    >It's such a brilliant way of using the tracks that I can't use the type in the time method, I am going to have to do the bulk of my edits in CS3, render & then open up in Pinnacle & add my smart sounds their. Its a shame & also as I still find Pinnacle buggy & I feel the need to save every time I've made an edit.

                                                    Simon,

                                                    I agree that it would be cool to be able to drag-edit the length of the soundtrack in CS3. That would be a good feature request to make to the SmartSound folks.

                                                    Referencing the quote above - it seems that you are willing to endure the (IMHO unnecessary) time spent moving from one program to another just to be able to use the cool drag-edit feature in Pinnacle. Yet you are unwilling to spend far less time than that to enter in a numeric time value in a single dialog box to achieve the same thing, all while remaining in the same app? Heck, for the same time investment of moving to/from Pinnacle, you could go to/from SonicFire Pro and increase your soundtrack creation options exponentially.

                                                    I understand your disappointment at not being able to use the cool feature in PPro CS3. I don't understand making your editing life more difficult than it has to be just to pursue that feature.

                                                    Please note that I'm not trying to tell you how to edit; I'm just presenting what I hope is an objective third-party perspective.

                                                    -Jeff
                                                    • 23. Re: Smartsounds in Premier - Is it really this bad
                                                      Curt Wrigley Level 4
                                                      I simply stretch my work area bar over the portion of the timeline i need a soundtrack for; hovering your mouse over the center of the work area bar will tell you the exact length which is easy to type into the SS interface.
                                                      • 24. Re: Smartsounds in Premier - Is it really this bad
                                                        Jim_Simon Level 8
                                                        I use In and Outs to determine the length needed.

                                                        And I've been using Quicktracks since 6.5. I've never been able to change the length of a file after creating it, as it's a physical .wav file stored on hard disk. Dragging the end shorter only cut off the end. I was never able to drag it any longer. The Quicktracks clip has always behaved as any other media clip.
                                                        • 25. Re: Smartsounds in Premier - Is it really this bad
                                                          Level 1
                                                          Curt,
                                                          Thanks for the tip. That will be helpful.

                                                          Jim.
                                                          I agree you couldn't elongate the clip, so I always used a fairly long clip for my projects, so I could shorten it if I needed, by dragging, but when I did shorten it, the music was "rearranged" to give the appearance of ending where you wanted.
                                                          This is from the quicktrack ad:
                                                          Feature Highlights
                                                          Quicktracks automatically composes music right in Premiere
                                                          Not only does Quicktracks give you the most efficient way to search the largest selection of customizable music for your projects, it also integrates with the Premiere timeline to make changes instantly. If you need a music score to be a little longer or a little shorter, just resize the music on your Premiere timeline and Quicktracks will compose a new version of that song to fit your scene perfectly. Its like having a composer helping you on every project.
                                                          Now I just put in a fade out, and probably the listener won't notice anyway.
                                                          John
                                                          • 26. Re: Smartsounds in Premier - Is it really this bad
                                                            Curt Wrigley Level 4
                                                            Well, technically their propaganda is true. because you can click on a SS soundtrack on the timeline that is too long, type a new length and the clip is replaced with a shorter version. Its not dragging, true; but its still pretty easy and satisfies the propaganda.
                                                            • 27. Re: Smartsounds in Premier - Is it really this bad
                                                              Level 1
                                                              Jeff

                                                              Doing it the way running between two programs is easier because, even though you can enter the time in to Premier Pro, you may find it ends a second or two earlier, or the next music tracks fades in quietly or a whole host of reasons that the being able to drag to the length really just do it.

                                                              So when done in Premier Pinnacle you render the file, okay this takes time but obviously one does something else while this is happening. Yes the whole process is longer but this way you just get the absolute precision you want with the track.

                                                              Cwrig, if you knew what we was talking about, i.e if you had experienced how smart sounds SHOULD work then I doubt you would be happy with the way you was using it in PP. But as John Rich pointed out above, this seems to be a bug that smart sounds haven't yet sorted.
                                                              • 28. Re: Smartsounds in Premier - Is it really this bad
                                                                Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional
                                                                >Doing it the way running between two programs is easier because, even though you can enter the time in to Premier Pro, you may find it ends a second or two earlier...Yes the whole process is longer but this way you just get the absolute precision you want with the track

                                                                Are you saying that in Pinnacle, if you drag a clip to an arbitrary length, say 45 seconds and 12 frames, that you never get a soundtrack that finishes its fade-out at 45 seconds and 3 frames, or at 45 seconds and 29 frames? That you always get the last whisper of the ending note or fade-out at *exactly* 45 seconds and 12 frames?

                                                                If that is what you are asserting, then Pinnacle can do something that not even SonicFire Pro can do with the available SmartSound library of music.

                                                                Pardon my skepticism, but that seems unlikely with Pinnacle and QuickTracks.
                                                                • 29. Re: Smartsounds in Premier - Is it really this bad
                                                                  the_wine_snob Level 9
                                                                  Simon,

                                                                  I mis-spoke and you caught me. I was doing three things at once and relied on memory alone.

                                                                  Yes, dbl-click the SmartSound Track and THAT will get the dialog box, that I referenced.

                                                                  Sorry for the bad info.

                                                                  Also, the folk at SmartSound are wonderful to deal with and I'm sure that they'd love to hear how you use the software. They also are very open to suggestions for making things better with it. I'd e-mail their tech support, or call them, and suggest a manner to change the length of the piece on the fly. It could be that there is a problem in QuickTracks for PP, that precludes this, though. However, they'll be glad to share that with you. Of all the recent SW companies, with which I've dealt, SmartSound has been one of the best. I also use their SonicFire Pro 4.5, and probably spend more time in it, than in QuickTracks for Premiere.

                                                                  Now, I used Studio from about 7 - 10, and don't quite recall SmartSound working quite like that. However, we've already seen how my memory fails, and it's been 2 years, since I last used any Pinnacle program. I do have SmartSound in another NLE (Magix), and will fire it up this evening, to see how it works there.

                                                                  Hunt
                                                                  • 30. Re: Smartsounds in Premier - Is it really this bad
                                                                    Level 1
                                                                    Are you saying that in Pinnacle, if you drag a clip to an arbitrary length, say 45 seconds and 12 frames, that you never get a soundtrack that finishes its fade-out at 45 seconds and 3 frames, or at 45 seconds and 29 frames? That you always get the last whisper of the ending note or fade-out at *exactly* 45 seconds and 12 frames?

                                                                    No I'm not saying that at all.

                                                                    But if you make a smartsound track in premier giving it a length of say 45 seconds, the ending might actually come in at 44 seconds thus too short. So then in Pinnacle you can just drag the clip making it longer & looking at the sound display bars of the surrounding audio you can time it all up better by dragging, not having to time in various times to get it correct.

                                                                    Hard to explain here in text format but I know what I mean & I'm not gonna stop working this way until I can adjust time length via dragging.

                                                                    However I guess making my tracks too long & using fade ins & outs might work but No actually, not when the clever appearance of the track ending at the right sequence will be lost.

                                                                    Phew, this topics getting long isn't it!!! :-)
                                                                    • 31. Re: Smartsounds in Premier - Is it really this bad
                                                                      Jim_Simon Level 8
                                                                      >I could shorten it if I needed, by dragging, but when I did shorten it, the music was "rearranged" to give the appearance of ending where you wanted

                                                                      That never happened for me. When I shortened it, it just cut off, as I would expect since the clip is referencing a separate .wav file.
                                                                      • 32. Re: Smartsounds in Premier - Is it really this bad
                                                                        Level 1
                                                                        That never happened for me. When I shortened it, it just cut off, as I would expect since the clip is referencing a separate .wav file.

                                                                        Mmm seems a few people on this topic didn't know that smart sounds could do that, and that is why smart sounds is soooooo smart, (when it does it) thus the earlier arguments!
                                                                        • 33. Re: Smartsounds in Premier - Is it really this bad
                                                                          Jim_Simon Level 8
                                                                          I doubt that it ever could (for Premiere at least).
                                                                          • 34. Re: Smartsounds in Premier - Is it really this bad
                                                                            Level 1
                                                                            Jim Simon wrote I doubt that it ever could (for Premiere at least).

                                                                            John Rich - Post 18 wrote
                                                                            I have had "Quicktracks" for several years and with PremPro 1.5, it worked as you described, without Pinacle, as a plugin for Prem Pro ie I accessed it File - New - Smartsound and I would make a long version of the .wav file and could just drag then end and it would re-do the piece so it would end where I had dragged.

                                                                            Me - Now
                                                                            I think we have already established that it did.
                                                                            • 35. Re: Smartsounds in Premier - Is it really this bad
                                                                              Jim_Simon Level 8
                                                                              I think John's memory is in error.
                                                                              • 36. Re: Smartsounds in Premier - Is it really this bad
                                                                                Curt Wrigley Level 4
                                                                                The Smartsound plugin for PPRO never had the "drag to shorten feature" as Simon described. Ive used it since it came out.
                                                                                • 37. Re: Smartsounds in Premier - Is it really this bad
                                                                                  Level 1
                                                                                  The Smartsound plugin for PPRO never had the "drag to shorten feature" as Simon described. Ive used it since it came out.

                                                                                  It wasn't me who said it did? John Rich did in post #18? John care to elaborate on these doubters??? :-)
                                                                                  • 38. Re: Smartsounds in Premier - Is it really this bad
                                                                                    Level 1
                                                                                    Curt,
                                                                                    I just went back and relooked at my Quicktraks 3.02 and as you said, the "drag to shorten feature" was not there.
                                                                                    Thanks for correcting me. I was dragging, but not re-orchestrating like I thought. As has been mentioned, even then double clicking the clip allows typing in to shorten, which reorchestrates.
                                                                                    Thanks again,
                                                                                    John
                                                                                    • 39. Re: Smartsounds in Premier - Is it really this bad
                                                                                      Level 1
                                                                                      Pants!!!

                                                                                      Double clicking to change the length just crashes my version of Premier :-(
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