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... you really need at least 3 fast drives on a fast computer with lots of DRAMM. What is your computer configuration? Does your external drive have a fast eSATA connector - USB 2.0 or FireWire may e too slow ... it sounds like your system really needs to be optimized. There can also be IRQ problems with the backup drive. I would not playback files from an external drive. I would try playing them back from an internal hard drive other than the system drive ...
Thanks for the post.
I'm using two Intel Xeon Dual Core Processors, with 4 gigs RAM.
Actually, I have two Raided cases with 8 hard drives each, totaling 5.5 Terabytes each case. They are attached to my editing PC via SCSI cables. I can't playback using an internal drive. I'm editing in HD, and the internal drives are too slow, so I have to use the external, raided ones.
Raid configuration and controller?
Controller: Adaptec ASR-3085
You mean to say you use 8 disk (R)aid0 arrays? It likely is not the cause of your problems, but do you realize that the chance of losing ALL your data is
b 8 times bigger
than losing a single disk?
What else did change in terms of hardware, drivers, software in the past 6 months? It seems weird that your material goes spontaneously out of sync.
1.) Is the file you are playing back a rendered HD movie - or are you monitoring sequences in Premiere along with any filters you might be utilizing?
2.) What player or program, if not Premiere, is the file being played back on?
3.) When I asked about the number of drives - RAID or not, I wanted to know if you have a dedicated scratch disk as a work space for all the temp files. (example: one (1) drive with programs and OS; one (1) drive with project files; one (1) empty drive specifically and only used as a scratch disk drive.
Yes, I have 8 disks raided 0, and I know the risks, but my budget leaves me with no choice. Raid 5 would be best from what I hear, but it doesn't matter. My space and speed requirements leave me no choice but to take this risk.
I had a tech come to help fix things, and supposedly he helped to take everything out of the PC and put it back in. Don't know if that created this new problem.
1) Their unaltered clips in their original form: AJA Quicktime.
2) Playing back in Premiere.
3) I just use "Same as Project" for all categories in the Scratch Disk Preferences.
... you are asking your computer to do too much - RAID or no RAID.
1.) So, you do not have a dedicated scratch disk that is a different physical drive than the program file and the operating system?
2.) Compressed formats do not play back as smoothly as un-compressed AVI clips do.
3.) Export the videos as AVI and then ... proceed from there. Make sure you have allowed Premiere to render a complete set of preview files before you try to view the film in it's entirety - on a dedicated scratch disk - not a partition or on the same drive as the program file or the OS.
4.) Can you dig it?
3.) Export the videos as AVI and then re-import them and proceed making sure you have allowed Premiere to render a complete set of preview files before you try to view your project in it's entirety. **NOTE: Make sure the preview files are rendered on a dedicated scratch disk and not on the same physical drive as the program file or the OS.
4.) Now, can you dig it?
P.S. I'm having a hard time with your explanation of the problem you had formatting the backup drive, resetting the PC, and trash cleanup on aisle 9 - or was it the "C:\" drive. "C:\" should just have your programs and OS on it - and little else - if you want to take your best shot at having a smooth operating PC and a positive workflow for working on process heavy multimedia projects. That is what works for me. All drives should be defragmented constantly - I recommend Diskeeper.
I tried using dedicated scratch disks, and tried exporting and importing uncompressed AVI, but the problems persist.
What originally happened was that I was trying to format an external back up drive, but it was defective, freezing my PC. I couldn't get out of the freeze, so I had to hit the PC reset button, which I know is bad since Windows doesn't get shut down properly.
I defragmented twice also.
Thanks for the suggestions, though.
... is it the project file you are trying to play? Or is it a file you rendered?
It happens with both project files and rendered files. It even
happens when I open and play the rendered files in Quicktime. The
only difference with Quicktime is that while the video and audio still
stutter, my PC won't shut down and restart at the stuttering, like it
does when I playback in CS3.
... why don't you try rendering the file in another format - and smaller, too - just to troubleshoot. And, what is your processor and amount of RAM memory?
I also exported and then imported in AVI uncompressed and then in AVI Standard DV. Same problem. Actually, it looked worse.
2 Intel Xeon 5050
4 Gigs RAM
Actually, I noticed that sometimes, the audio stutters even on the boot-up as Windows desktop page loads and the Windows music is played. Maybe it's a system problem beyond the video footage. When I play my clips in the Quicktime player, it runs better. It stutters less, though it's still there. After playing in the Quicktime player, if I open CS3, it starts to run better there, too, but I have to run it in Quicktime first. Weird.
1.) What kind of audio interface do you have? Is it onboard or a separate device - USB, FireWire, or PCI - make and model?
2.) Which operating system are you using - XP or Vista?
3.) The debacle with the external drive was just a coincidence other than you might have had some driver roll-backs that may have compromised compatibility and performance - created some issues, let's say.
4.) What brand computer and what kind of restore was done - was it from a restore partition on you main drive?
5.) I really do suggest you use a separate, phyiscal scratch disk - one attached to the motherboard. That is for sure!
6.) Your audio device is what I'm most interesting in knowing about right now because a picture is starting to form ....
Thanks for the list, Eddie.
1. Not sure if I'm know what an audio interface is, but I'm pretty sure it's onboard as part of the motherboard.
2. XP Pro 32 bit
4. I never did a "restore" to a point. I simply hit the physical "off" or reset button on the PC. We created our own machine with a Super Micro X7DA8 motherboard. Here's the list of everything:
Supermicro X7DA8 Xeon 5000P Serverboard
4 1 gig Kingston KVR667D2D8F5/1G RAM
2 Intel Xeon 5050
Nvidia Quadro FX 1500 graphics card.
Controller card = Adaptec Raid 3085
Xena LH Capture Card
Storage: 2 server drives each having 8 SATA Seagate
Barracuda drives (ST3750640AS) of 750 gigs each for a
total of 11TBs formatted. Connected to Editing PC via
6. In the device manager list, I have listed Realtek AC'97 and Legacy Audio Drivers.
1.) I can tell you for certain, the audio is inadequate. Those legacy drivers for you audio are all wrong and even if you had the prper driver, the device is crap. I would disable it in the BIOS and get a real audio interface with its own memory and not reliant on the main processor. One with the ability to better handle the task. I can make recomendations, if you like. My onboard audio is better than what your MB has, but I have disabled it and (for the sake of example) using this: http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/FastTrackUltra-main.html
2.) I would also recommend you look into a video card with twice the amount of memory. Something like a GeForce 8800GTS PCIe 320MB (DDR 3)which can easily handle the editing and playback of hi-def files.
3.) Are you saying you have 4 GB of 667 MHz RAM? If so, that would suffice.
4.) Does that motherboard have hardware RAID support? I'm wondering why you need all those external drives when your motherboard has 6 SATA connectors. You could be complicating your configuration needlessly. You could at least 1, RAID-0 configuration and plenty of SATA connectors left over for storage drives and or another RAID array.
Have you mapped the IRQs to see where any bottlenecks may be - shared IRQs and what is shring with what. I'm thinking, along with the audio being far from adequate, you may need to free up an IRQ channel to get better performance. All those external drives, I get it but I would strt streamlining your approach.
I wish you lived nearby, I would like to help.
1. Yeah, I'm not sure how the audio works at all. It seems that the Realtek device is the predominant one. I notice that that's the driver I can update, though I did so to no avail.
I have no idea how to do anything with the BIOS or an audio interface outside of the motherboard. Someone else put together the system for me.
2. The FX 1500 was one of the ones recommended by Adobe for CS3, though. It had worked fine for six months. Why do you think it's capacity would start becoming a problem?
3. Yes, I have 4 GBs RAM.
4. You're right, I think we made things complicated needlessly. We were really walking in the dark when we first started, which is why it took 7 months before we could start. And I've only been editing for about 6 before these problems started. At any rate, I'm stuck with my current configuration because I'm done capturing my original footage, and I don't have the money to start a new configuration. We went way over budget when we decided to edit in HD.
Honestly, I have no idea what an IRQ is. You can probably tell, I haven't been much of a tech guy.
Where are you located, btw?
1. I do not agree. The audio is quite adequate with the correct drivers. That is not the problem.
2. Nonsense. The Quadro is a much better card than the GTS with 320MB.
4. You don't understand Lionel's disk configuration. Read his previous posts.
I don't think IRQ mapping is the issue here.
Lionel, are you sure you have the 5000P Blackford chipset and not the 5000X Greencreek chipset? I think you must have the Greencreek, not the Blackford, because Blackford is more a server chipset, and the Greencreek is more a workstation chipset.
Can you do the following, go to START/RUN and type in DXDIAG, enter. Have it run all tests and save the results as DXDIAG.TXT
Mail that to me at millaard(AT)millcon(DOT)nl
Please include a screenshot from Process Explorer, showing all running processes.
Did you update all your drivers to the most recent versions? It sounds that some file has gotten corrupted during the reboot. It will be difficult to locate the culprit but you can have a look here for enhanced troubleshooting:
The Case of the Unexplained
and Sysinternal Utilities
>The Quadro is a much better card than the GTS with 320MB.
That may not be. A developer in the Magic Bullet forum has said that the 1500 is pretty much the bottom end of the Quadro line, and is insufficient for running certain MB plug-ins which make heavy use of OpenGL 2.0. He specifically suggested replacing it with an 8800.
... Jim, thanks for backing me up on the video card issue. I really think your system is overly configured and would better serve your projects and your ability to troubleshoot problems if it were simplified. I have given you proper advice on hardware. IRQs are an issue when you have a lot of process heavy peripherals. Turning off the audio in the BIOS is a simple matter, too.
But why don't you try this:
1.) Export the file one (1) time as a DV AVI file - the default settings. See what happens.
2.) Export the file in HD with no audio. What happens - what does it look like?
3.) Export the HD project using the audio file and a static test pattern or just an image file as video. What does it sound like? Does it still stutter with a sttic image aboard.
Lionel, let me say this again, to me, your problem is hard to wrap my mind around because of the complicated configuration you have. there is so much to consider, it could be anything.
... one more thing Lionel, I only suggest rearranging the drives you already have, add a higher-end graphics card, turning off the onboard audio in the BIOS (Google), and purchasing a professional quality audio interface (400.00 at Guitar center). We are not talking about a lot of money - but a lot less headaches, I guarantee.
Please try exporting the files as I suggested and post the results. Some revelations may be waiting. I love "ah-ha" moments. Don't you?
> He specifically suggested replacing it with an 8800.
He must have meant the 8800 GTS with 512 MB, which is about twice as fast as the older 8800 GTS with 320 MB that Monte mentioned.
The Quadro is far better with OpenGL than any of the gaming cards, even the relatively low end 1500.
... the idea being, a better card.
Exporting the files in different formats/types/portions might give us a better clue where the bottleneck/problem is in Lionel's sytem.
The 512 MB version does have the newer G92 chip, but benchmarks didn't put it as over the top as one might think.
And according to the MB rep, the 1500 doesn't meet the minimum OpenGL 2.0 requirements for certain MB plug-ins, hence his suggestion for the 8800 replacement.
Now, whether or not that plays any part in the problem being discussed here isn't really my point. What I'm saying that that workstation cards aren't always better than gaming cards.
I sent you my DXDiag file. Unfortunately, I was not able to get a screen shot of the processes. I tried hitting the print screen button, but nothing happened. Maybe because I'm not connected to a printer. If you know another way, please let me know.
I checked and it looks like you're right, the chipset should be the 5000X. Not sure where I got the 5000P from.
I also updated all my drivers.
Thanks for chiming in. If I can get away with my present card, I'd like to stick with it, unless I can be absolutely sure that's the problem.
Again, I have no idea what IRQs are, and I'd like to avoid anything with the BIOS if possible, since I've never had to do it. I mean I would do it, if I knew it would do the trick. I also have never had to deal with an external audio device. Again, I'd do it if that were the actual solution.
I did an AVI SD clip, and the same thing happens. Actually, it also looks terrible with a lot of artifacts.
I did an HD clip with no audio, and the video still stutters.
Actually, I don't know how to do a still and stretch it out yet.
This might be interesting. I also just tried exporting in AVI SD to an internal, 750GB hard drive. I played it back from there, and there are no stuttering problems. It looks like my problems happen when I use either external RAID case.
>If I can get away with my present card, I'd like to stick with it, unless I can be absolutely sure that's the problem.
A wise choice.
Bingo Lionel! A small victory.
Now we are getting somewhere and can start to get to the heart of your problem - which seems to be pointing to your external RAID drives - and possibly the controller.
You see what I'm saying about having a complicated hardware configuration.
1.) I really think the logical next step is to move any files you have on those external drives to an internal drive, for now.
2.) let's simplify things. I would then physically remove the RAID controller from the system and allow the computer to remap its resources. NOTE: Now that it doesn't have to deal with the RAID controller and external drives, it will re-portion it's processing ability.
3.) Render those files again as I suggested in my earlier post just using the internal drives and post the results. I'm thinking you might do even better than before.
4.) If things start working out, we can go from there. It would be faster in person.
Monte | Email: Monte@MonteMedia.Net
You have three partitions on your boot disk. C, E and F. I suggest to get another disk, for instance a WD Velociraptor, for your OS and programs, remove all partitions from your current boot disk and use it only as a single volume with the pagefile on it. Copy all data temporarily to your X drive, reformat and copy the data back from X to E, assuming a new C drive.
Your drivers for the 3085 are up to date, however your Quadro drivers are not. I suggest you update these. http://www.nvidia.com/object/winxp_169.96.html
While you are at it, update your DirectX files as well: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=2da43d38-db71-4c1b-bc6a-9b6652cd 92a3&displaylang=en
To generate screen shots, I use SnagIt. Works very nice. I would like to see the Process Explorer screenshot, as the above remarks are the only things that pop out of your DXDIAG file.
... Harm, why worry about the partitions on Lionel's main internal drive - unless he is going to re-install Windows? He definitely needs an additional drive or 2 (2 would be better).
Couldn't Lionel just borrow drives from his external RAID configuration and install them as internal drives? Then he could quickly reformat them from within Windows - just to make sure they are error free. Or are the RAID drives something other than SATA?
PS I'm dying to see how this works out. Please don't keep me waiting.
> why worry about the partitions on Lionel's main internal drive - unless he is going to re-install Windows? He definitely needs an additional drive or 2 (2 would be better).
He already has. And the partitioning he uses is detrimental to performance.
> Couldn't Lionel just borrow drives from his external RAID configuration and install them as internal drives?
No, unless he wants to destroy all his data. Read his previous responses. He uses SATA disks in a Raid0 array.
... yes, I'm with you on the partition performance ...
I'm re-installing the OS on a different drive, as well as all the drivers. We'll see what happens. I'll keep you posted.
... this is F U N !!!
Well, we put the OS and all the software on a new hard drive. Everything seems to be running o.k., but when I open one of my recent projects in CS3, it says, "The editing mode used by this project could not be loaded. The project will be opened in Desktop mode." But when I open in Desktop mode, I don't get any audio. There is no audio waveforms when I open the source clip. The timeline does show the audio portion of the clips. But there is no waveform shown there either.
When I play my clips in Quicktime, they run perfectly, the video and audio together. There is no stuttering at all, unlike when I ran them in Quicktime in my previous C drive.
Switch out of Desktop mode manually, see what happens.
... yes, I have thought but I'll have to get back to you tomorrow ....
I found out the problem. I installed the AJA Xena Card software as a custom configuration where I failed to install the necessary presets. I re-installed it using a "typical" configuration, and now CS3 opens and runs o.k.
We'll have to wait and see if things hold up as I continue editing...