1 2 3 4 5 Previous Next 174 Replies Latest reply on Jun 5, 2012 3:13 AM by Jeff Bellune Go to original post Branched to a new discussion.
      • 80. Re: Adobe Premiere Pro CS3 MKV support?
        NetBuzz

        I could suggest a "MKVExtract" to extract the video and audio stream so

        you could remerge them in a MP4 format.

        • 81. Re: Adobe Premiere Pro CS3 MKV support?
          EuroSiti Level 1

          Well. I've sent two official requests/suggestions to Adobe now.

          (I had to create seperate accounts for Premiere and Flash Player, of course)... I wonder how many MKV requests they've received during the last couple of years?

           

          HS' and NetBuzz' discoveries (I'm assuming that you could also import MKVs if you change the extension to MP4 just like HS said you could do with the AVI extension) just makes Adobe's MKV "ban" even more absurd. It reveals that there might not even be any technical reasons at all for - officially - not supporting Matroska!

           

          Once again, when you look at the list of video container formats supported in PrPro, some of them are extremely hard to justify, because those formats have absolutely no relevance whatsoever for professional video editors (for instance, 3GP, FLV etc. are just crappy mobile end user and/or streaming formats unable to contain high quality video).

           

          The truth is that just like FLAC has made practically every other high quality audio format obsolete, MKV has basically made every other quality/HD video storage container format secondary. But if you're making huge profits on hardware license fees from some of these technically inferior containers, you're probably not very interested in promoting MKV. Not at all, in fact.

           

          Just like the ongoing lack of support for the - even professionally used - FLAC audio format, there simply doesn't seem to be any reasonable explanation as to why these open standards remain unsupported by the - shall we say "most established" - companies like Apple, Microsoft and Adobe, but NOT a whole lot of other (younger or less "high end") companies who have generally begun supporting MKV during the last 3 years.

           

          All of this is merely suspicions, of course.

          But I haven't yet been able to find any official explanation anywhere as to why Adobe still doesn't support MKV in any of their software (they're not even hardware producers!) products... No public demand? Compared to some of the other supported formats? I find that very hard to believe! ;-)

          • 82. Re: Adobe Premiere Pro CS3 MKV support?
            the_wine_snob Level 9

            Though I might have missed one over the years, I can only recall two MKV threads here. This one, and one other that got way off-track quickly too.

             

            As for FLV, well we see several per month. The 3gp, less often, but two in the last few weeks. I will never defend either as worthwhile containers/CODEC's for editing, apparently many feel the need.

             

            While there could always be an evil conspiricy afoot, I would think that it's the "many [who] feel the need."

             

            With several ways of handling the footage, I do not really know how directly Adobe needs to provide additional support, but if the numbers are there, I feel that they will.

             

            Good luck,

             

            Hunt

            • 83. Re: Adobe Premiere Pro CS3 MKV support?
              Jim_Simon Level 8
              MKV has basically made every other quality/HD video storage container format secondary.

               

              Apparently, the developers of Matroska have forgotten to tell anyone about that, because it seems that no one's really using it very much.

              • 84. Re: Adobe Premiere Pro CS3 MKV support?
                EuroSiti Level 1

                I don't think Matroska.org needs to tell the world about their container format. Most people who doesn't solely depend on paid high end software already knows about this container. Anyone who want to HDD-backup their DVD collection in space-optimized but 100% lossless quality are using free software like MakeMKV, Freemake, FairUse, AnyDVD or VirtualDub. They always use Matroska whenever they want to preserve their in full quality and preserve all additional media elements from the source disc.

                 

                The only reason why they sometimes pick MP4 instead is when they need to be able to play their movies on other hardware devices.

                 

                I did some fairly neutral word searches at one of the most illegal online file sharing portals on the Internet, Filestube.com.

                I searched for two common words associated with video: "clip" and then "movie". These are the results:

                 

                 

                "clip" / "movie"

                AVI 66197 / 327747

                3GP 3189 / 23690

                MKV 4278 / 58466

                MP4 20148 / 35287

                MPEG* 10500* / 11000*

                RMVB 931 / 10221

                WMV 89679 / 99630

                *) Extensions "mpg" + "mpeg"

                 

                 

                Yes. Suspicion confirmed: MKV and AVI are indeed the most popular formats when it comes to illegal distribution of feature films (not just animé, as some people like to claim). But the reason why MP4 and MKV are becoming more and more popular is because these containers are much better suited for quality video storage purposes than all the other containers (except WMV).

                 

                The fact that MKV is more common than MP4 also shows that Matroska is better supported on the software market than any other MPEG4 container, except WMV (due to the fact that this is the native Windows video recording format, of course).

                 

                A couple of years ago, the figures would have been even more in favour of the AVI container (DivX, XviD, not MS). Most free programs used for movie compression only support AVI, MKV and MP4, and AVI is likely to disappear within a few years. The "market share" for Matroska will only increase as it has been doing during the last 3-4 years since the Blu ray / HD became the new movie standard.

                 

                And as I said. MKV support is very common. Of course, people would use it if Adobe supported it in both PrPro as well as in their Flash Player.

                • 85. Re: Adobe Premiere Pro CS3 MKV support?
                  the_wine_snob Level 9

                  Well, to say that AVI is one of the most used illegal formats, is almost like saying that a car is on of the most used modes of transportation.

                   

                  One should look beneath the hood, and then they would find that DivX and Xvid are the most used CODEC's, within the AVI container/wrapper.

                   

                  Now, I could be very wrong in this speculation, but it seems that MKV, like DivX and Xvid, is a streaming media, delivery format, and, as it is most commonly used, not really intended for editing, which is what PrPro does. Am I wrong there?

                   

                  Hunt

                  • 86. Re: Adobe Premiere Pro CS3 MKV support?
                    Jim_Simon Level 8
                    MKV and AVI are indeed the most popular formats when it comes to illegal distribution of feature films

                     

                    And there's MY point.  While AVI is the standard video container for Windows platforms the world over, MKV remains largely limited to teenagers ripping and illegally sharing their video collection.  It's just not widely used for much else, including video production.

                    • 87. Re: Adobe Premiere Pro CS3 MKV support?
                      Todd_Kopriva Level 8

                      If you want to request that Premiere Pro add support for importing or exporting a specific format, submit a feature request. The more information you give in the feature request about why you want a specific feature, the better we are able to consider it.

                      • 88. Re: Adobe Premiere Pro CS3 MKV support?
                        EuroSiti Level 1

                        In terms of professional video production, only uncompressed video formats (video where every frame is a keyframe) are useful for editing.

                        Matroska can contain both compressed AND uncompressed video formats (and almost any other container supported in PrPro (apart from AVI) can't do that. They are restricted to contain i.e. MPEG2, MPEG4 or VC-1 compressed video streams, which are lossy formats).

                         

                        From a technical and professional perspective, I would argue that it is totally irrelevant what MKV or any other container is primarily being used for on the Internet. The only interesting fact is whether the container is being used "out there" or not, and whether or not it is a technically attractive storage and export format. And unlike almost any other container, MKV fully supports both indexing, multiple audio streams, multiple subtitles and online streaming (smaller header than most other video containers, meaning that videos will start playing faster).

                         

                        We have just learned that PrPro will in fact import MKV files, if only you change the file extension (suffix). MKV is also useful for both pre production and post production storage purposes unlike any other video container, because it can contain both compressed and uncompressed video formats - including MPEG4 (which AVI can't).

                         

                        The primary video container in MS Windows isn't AVI but WMV. Neither WMV or AVI fully support the predominant H.264 codec, and neither of them properly support B-frames either. In other words: These containers are technically inferior.

                         

                        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_container_formats

                         

                        The only credible argument for not supporting Matroska that remains is this: "We don't like it - for political and economic reasons".

                         

                        I have already sent an official request/suggestion form.

                        • 89. Re: Adobe Premiere Pro CS3 MKV support?
                          Jim_Simon Level 8
                          The only interesting fact is whether the container is being used "out there" or not

                           

                          And the answer is, apart from those ripping teens, it's not.  And that is not an argument against supporting MKV, it is simply an explanation.  I and probably most others on the apologetic side here really don't care whether or not MKV ever gains support inside of Adobe suites.  We have nothing against such an inclusion.  Out point is only that MKV support is currently lacking because MKV use is equally lacking.

                           

                          Convince camera makers, post houses and broadcasters to start using it in numbers, and I'm quite sure Adobe will jump on that bandwagon.

                          • 90. Re: Adobe Premiere Pro CS3 MKV support?
                            the_wine_snob Level 9

                            The only credible argument for not supporting Matroska that remains is this: "We don't like it - for political and economic reasons".

                             

                            I am sorry, but that sounds like the contention that because there are unexplained instances of "lights," and other things observed in the air, that the only conclusion is that we are being visited by extraterrestrial life. While that could be a possible explanation, I cannot see that it is only one, so am not ready to make that leap. UFO’s, by definition (Unexplained Flying Objects) exist, but what are they? I feel that most sightings will be unique, and MAY yield the discovery that yes, extraterrestrial life IS visiting us. However, I feel that there will be other explanations from secret military testing, to mistaken identification, to atmospheric conditions, to hoaxes.

                             

                            Now, your contention could be correct. There could be a secret Adobe Star Chamber, and they might have a hate-on for MKV. I still maintain that the Adobe Star Chamber is actually a group of capitalists, who want some sort of ROI. When they see the numbers, they will make the change, regardless of what deep-seated biases they might hold as individuals. When the numbers are there, I feel that my contention will prove true.

                             

                            Hunt

                            • 91. Re: Adobe Premiere Pro CS3 MKV support?
                              EuroSiti Level 1

                              As far as i know, no quality hardware video recording devices record in SWF, FLV, 3GP, MPEG-1, ASF or WMV either.

                              Furthermore, I really don't know who would use a high end piece of editing software like PrPro to edit video in those outdated and somewhat crappy container formats. So again: I fail to see the logic in your arguments.

                               

                              I just gave you a whole bunch of technically (and as such: professionally) valid arguments for supporting Matroska, and before that I also tried to provide some hard facts about the rapidly increasing use of the MKV container.

                              But it seems to me like you simply chose to ignore the whole thing and just repeat your personal aversion (teenage rippers). I'm not sure there's any point in continuing this discussion, if that's your primary concern.

                               

                              But once again: Any video-related media element (menu, subtitles, audio tracks, index, metadata etc.) can be stored within a Matroska video container, and the whole thing can be unpacked again later without any quality loss (depending on the selected video format, of course). No other video container can do that. When an even better video codec is invented in the future, video encoded with this codec will also fit within the MKV container, while it probably won't work with other containers.

                              ... And that is indeed why Adobe should provide official import + export support for MKV. Period.

                              • 92. Re: Adobe Premiere Pro CS3 MKV support?
                                Todd_Kopriva Level 8

                                EuroSiti,

                                 

                                Why are you arguing with Bill---who is not an Adobe employee---about what Adobe should include in its products?

                                 

                                If you've submitted a feature request and explained your reasons in the feature request, you've done what you need to do to affect this decision.

                                • 93. Re: Adobe Premiere Pro CS3 MKV support?
                                  NetBuzz Level 1

                                  Man i am tired of this thread, and the forum just wont let me

                                  unsubscribe no matter what i do i still keep receiving this pointless

                                  arguing!!

                                  • 94. Re: Adobe Premiere Pro CS3 MKV support?
                                    the_wine_snob Level 9

                                    NetBuzz,

                                     

                                    Take a look at this ARTICLE on Forum E-Mail Notifications. There are several ways to subscribe to notification from the forum. This should show you where each is, and how to change your settings, so that they stop.

                                     

                                    Good luck,

                                     

                                    Hunt

                                    • 95. Re: Adobe Premiere Pro CS3 MKV support?
                                      the_wine_snob Level 9

                                      I have to agree with Todd. You have made good cases for the inclusion of MKV, and have given a lot of detail on its merits. However, that is something that you need to take up with Adobe, via the Feature Request.

                                       

                                      I have never had anything bad to say about MKV, and have never maintained that it was not a good format/CODEC. I have only tried to give one side - a different side - of a discussion on why it is not included directly in PrPro.

                                       

                                      How MKV might be used most commonly, is of no direct concern to me. One could argue that a certain amount of MP3 conversions are for pirating and sharing audio. While pirating is one thing, and should be addressed directly, I am not sure that a ban on but one possible container is a big convern for Adobe, but could be wrong?

                                       

                                      Good luck, and who knows, maybe enough Feature Requests will come in, to tip the scales.

                                       

                                      Hunt

                                      • 96. Re: Adobe Premiere Pro CS3 MKV support?
                                        Jim_Simon Level 8
                                        I fail to see the logic in your arguments.

                                         

                                        That's because we're not really making any arguments against MKV being included in the future.  We're only trying to explain that as of yet, the number of people who use PP and require MKV support is insufficient to warrant Adobe's spending resources on developing that support.  When (or more likely, if) the numbers ever make sense to Adobe, they will likely spend those resources.

                                         

                                        It's really not that difficult a concept to grasp.

                                        • 97. Re: Adobe Premiere Pro CS3 MKV support?
                                          EuroSiti Level 1

                                          Since you chose to quote me for that particular sentence, I till repeat it once more:

                                          "I fail to see the logic in your arguments"

                                          "We're only trying to explain that as of yet, the number of people who use PP and require MKV support is insufficient to warrant Adobe's spending resources on developing that support."

                                           

                                          According to this logic, there must be a substantial number of PrPro users who require support for SWF, FLV, 3GP, MPEG-1 and ASF? If that is not the case, maintaining support for these formats in PrPro seems to be a waste of time and software resources... according to your argument.

                                           

                                          Furthermore, we've just heard that PrPro does in fact import MKV files (just not officially), if only you change the suffix into AVI or MP4, so what's your point when you keep talking about "spending resources on developing that support"?

                                           

                                          - And my question (the one that makes you talk about UFOs and conspiracies) is simply:

                                          If PrPro can already import Matroska files (camouflaged as AVIs or MP4s without conversion), why won't Adobe officially support MKV?

                                          • 98. Re: Adobe Premiere Pro CS3 MKV support?
                                            the_wine_snob Level 9

                                            - And my question (the one that makes you talk about UFOs and conspiracies) is simply:

                                            If PrPro can already import Matroska files (camouflaged as AVIs or MP4s without conversion), why won't Adobe officially support MKV?

                                             

                                            I cannot answer that, being but a mere user. Only Adobe can address the question. Perhaps Todd is in a position to make a comment, but perhaps not. With no official response from Adobe, we can only speculate on what could be the issue here.

                                             

                                            As for those other, listed formats, I agree with you - do not see the need for full support in PrPro, and I feel that Jim Simon would agree too. However, just given the number of requests for help with 3gp files, in the PrPro forums lately, I'd say that there is obviously a market - just not one, that I am interested in.

                                             

                                            Good luck,

                                             

                                            Hunt

                                            • 99. Re: Adobe Premiere Pro CS3 MKV support?
                                              Todd_Kopriva Level 8

                                              A huge majority of the work to support a format (or any feature) is actually testing, not programming. To officially support any format, we need to test it thoroughly. Just because something appears to work on the surface when you use some sort of hack like change a file-name extension, this doesn't mean that it will work as well as it needs to for us to officially support it. This is true in many areas.

                                              • 100. Re: Adobe Premiere Pro CS3 MKV support?
                                                Jim_Simon Level 8

                                                According to this logic, there must be a substantial number of PrPro users who require support for SWF, FLV, 3GP, MPEG-1 and ASF?

                                                 

                                                Exactly, yes.  Now you're getting it.

                                                 

                                                If PrPro can already import Matroska files (camouflaged as AVIs or MP4s without conversion), why won't Adobe officially support MKV?

                                                 

                                                OK, maybe not quite yet.  One more time.

                                                 

                                                The reason Premiere Pro does not officially support MKV files is that not enough people need that support.  If the format ever gains sufficiently in user base, then it is likely that Adobe will do whatever programming needs to be done for files with an MKV extension to work fine inside of PP (assuming a compatible codec inside the MKV file, which is the bigger issue here).

                                                • 101. Re: Adobe Premiere Pro CS3 MKV support?
                                                  EuroSiti Level 1

                                                  OK. I rest my case.

                                                   

                                                  ... And now I'll go and purchase PrPro CS5.5, so I can export some MPEG-1 and SWF files of some footage I just recorded with my Canon XH G1S camcorder.

                                                   

                                                  However, I also wanted to add some selectable extra language tracks and selectable subtitles and an index for my original HDV H.264 High Profile camcorder movie, but since that's not really the kind of video editing and storage that Premiere Pro is intended for, I guess I'll have to download Handbrake for free instead...

                                                  • 102. Re: Adobe Premiere Pro CS3 MKV support?
                                                    the_wine_snob Level 9

                                                    Depending on your desired output/delivery, Adobe Encore can easily add Sub-Titles, and also optional Audio Tracks, but you will be authoring to BD (or DVD-Video for SD), or to Flash.

                                                     

                                                    What is your desired output/delivery?

                                                     

                                                    Good luck,

                                                     

                                                    Hunt

                                                    • 103. Re: Adobe Premiere Pro CS3 MKV support?
                                                      Jim_Simon Level 8

                                                      I guess I'll have to download Handbrake for free instead

                                                       

                                                      I know your post was sarcastic, but...good move.  Handbrake uses the superior x.264 encoder and allows for CQ mode.

                                                       

                                                      And welcome to the wonderful world of 'reality', where no one program does everything perfectly, and sometimes other solutions than the one we want need to be found.

                                                      • 104. Re: Adobe Premiere Pro CS3 MKV support?
                                                        taz291819 Level 1

                                                        What we need to remember is that MKV is a CONTAINER, not a CODEC.  Simply adding MKV support isn't so simple, as there is no telling what video and/or audio CODEC is being used.  Adobe would have to add a lot of addtional codecs, such as Xvid, Divx (non-professional), and others, or their CS would get a ton of calls asking why their MKV videos aren't importing.

                                                         

                                                        I hope they do add more CODEC and container support, including the above mentioned, as PrPro has always been on the cutting-edge of all popular formats.  It only makes the software better.

                                                        • 105. Re: Adobe Premiere Pro CS3 MKV support?
                                                          the_wine_snob Level 9

                                                          The one drawback that I see is that those CODEC's mentioned are delivery-only CODEC's, and are not meant to be edited.

                                                           

                                                          However, PrPro DID add support for 100% DVD-compatible VOB containers (with the MPEG-2 CODEC), and those are designed for delivery too. The few cameras, that produced mini-DVD discs, seem to be becoming but a footnote in the history of Video.

                                                           

                                                          It might happen? Some other NLE programs, like CyberLink's PowerDirector, Magix MovieEdit Pro, and some others (mostly "consumer-level" NLE's) do support more of those delivery-only formats, like DivX. Some have even reported that PrElements will handle some, that PrPro will not, though I have not tested, since my version of PrE is quite old, and does not offer such support.

                                                           

                                                          Hunt

                                                          • 106. Re: Adobe Premiere Pro CS3 MKV support?
                                                            EuroSiti Level 1

                                                            Please, please... Don't keep making uo allsorts of ad hoc excuses on behalf of Adobe. Their incredible amount of silence regarding the decision not to support WebM after all is just embarrassing and pathetic - or simply arrogant if you prefer that word.

                                                             

                                                            Adobe does not support ANY of the most popular community open standards - not even FLAC! (well, you can install an unofficial plugin, I believe)

                                                            Not even the most impressive video codec before H.264, Dirac/Schroedinger (which was made royalty free as a protest against MPEG-LA's lucrative monopoly), has ever been supported by Adobe although it was developed by the BBC... Well documented? Yes. Profitable? No.

                                                             

                                                            More than anything else this confirms what this is all about for Adobe: Making hefty license profits and doing whatever they can to limit the use of patent/license free standards regardless of technical quality or public demand (I'm sure they've been asked about FLAC and MKV support thousands of times already).

                                                             

                                                            Adobe is defending commercial industry standards. MKV files are almost without exception only containing H.264 video and either AAC, Vorbis or AC3 audio and nothing else - and never some of the 'obscure' formats you keep talking about. That is exactly the same as MP4 and M4V which are also slightly content-flexible containers. However, Adobe and their industrial hardware and software partners behind MPEG-LA does not make any money on MKV like they do on their own industry standard formats. MPEG-LA is making so much money on license fees that there ought to be a law against it.

                                                             

                                                            I just created a fully featured MKV file for presentation purposes complete with indexes, different subtitles and audio tracks last week. It plays fluently, and its features are fully supported and working, when I play the file on FREE media players. It's fun, and it's very useful.

                                                             

                                                            And if you put an MKV file on a USB stick and plug it into any modern Samsung or LG television, it will start playing without any problems, and you can even make use of the additional tracks.

                                                             

                                                            ... I wonder just how complicated it can be to add MKV support to Premiere Pro or any other 'high end' software or hardware product?

                                                             

                                                            And then again: You could even throw an editable lossless video format into your MKV container... Something you would NOT be able to do with any other container format that Adobe supports.

                                                             

                                                            Message was edited by: EuroSiti

                                                            • 107. Re: Adobe Premiere Pro CS3 MKV support?
                                                              Jim_Simon Level 8

                                                              More than anything else this confirms what this is all about for Adobe: Making hefty license profits and doing whatever they can to limit the use of patent/license free standards

                                                               

                                                              Oh, geez.  Not more of this.

                                                               

                                                              Premiere Pro is designed for the professional production community.  It is more codec friendly with the formats and codecs professionals use than either Avid or Final Cut Pro.  Adobe has time and time again shown that they do listen to their user base, and when a format/codec starts to make it's way into professional production circles, Adobe adds support.  We've seen this with HDV, DVCPRO HD, XDCAM, AVC-Intra, RED and a whole host of DSLR media.

                                                               

                                                              No camera shoots using the MKV container.  No camera shoots using the Dirac/Schroedinger codec.  You want support for those things in PP, talk to camera makers.  Get them to make cameras using those formats.  If and when they make their way into production circles, I have no doubt Adobe will respond and add support.

                                                              • 108. Re: Adobe Premiere Pro CS3 MKV support?
                                                                EuroSiti Level 1

                                                                I was talking about delivery / export formats, not editing and import formats.

                                                                 

                                                                Although MKV can contain lossless video and sound (unlike the industrial formats), the Matroska Video container is of course intended for end users. It is basically a DVD-as-a-file, and far more convenient than any other end user export format supported by PP and the Adobe Media Encoder, not least because the advanced MKV features are supported by all the most popular media players these days.

                                                                 

                                                                Adobe's flagship products have been so dominant in the market - not just for professional photographers - so of course they must have recieved numerous requests for additional format support - particularly in these HTML5 days. That is of course also the reason why Adobe promised they would support WebM last year.

                                                                 

                                                                But I am more than certain that it was by no means 'lack of customer demand' that made Adobe change their opinion. They KNOW the entire market is hungering for a free, common video standard.

                                                                 

                                                                I am working for a company that is currently trying to keep up with the immense customer (libraries, archives and museums) interest for - and competition from - open source alternatives. The option to deliver content in license-free community format standards is but one of their minimum requirements. Most of them love Premiere Pro, but they loathe the limitations of the Flash Player.

                                                                 

                                                                Open source format support would make Premiere Pro even more popular than it already is, but of course Adobe has no interest in promoting non-profitable standards - especially not if it might endanger their real golden egg: The Flash Player... And THAT is why I think we will never see any official open standards support in any Adobe product... not even when they are technically preferable to end users like FLAC or Matroska.

                                                                 

                                                                Premiere Pro's limitations is directly decided by the commerical interests of Adobe Flash Player. Nothing else. So please forget about technical issues and 'lack of interest'.

                                                                • 109. Re: Adobe Premiere Pro CS3 MKV support?
                                                                  the_wine_snob Level 9

                                                                  As for Flash, have you read this ARTICLE?

                                                                   

                                                                  Hunt

                                                                  • 110. Re: Adobe Premiere Pro CS3 MKV support?
                                                                    Jim_Simon Level 8
                                                                    I was talking about delivery / export formats, not editing and import formats.

                                                                     

                                                                    Same idea applies.  Professionals do not typically deliver in the MKV container.  When enough professional demand for such exists, I'm sure Adobe will work to implement it.

                                                                    • 111. Re: Adobe Premiere Pro CS3 MKV support?
                                                                      Jim_Simon Level 8

                                                                      They KNOW the entire market is hungering for a free, common video standard.

                                                                       

                                                                      Much as I love Firefox, I'd actually prefer they get down off their high horse on this one and just implement H.264 HTML5 capabilities.  It is the most common and best web codec currently available.

                                                                      • 112. Re: Adobe Premiere Pro CS3 MKV support?
                                                                        EuroSiti Level 1


                                                                        Much as I love Firefox, I'd actually prefer they get down off their high horse on this one and just implement H.264 HTML5 capabilities.  It is the most common and best web codec currently available.

                                                                         

                                                                        And Vorbis and FLAC have been superiour sound formats for over 10 years, yet Adobe still refuses to support them officially. If FLAC had been developed by a commercial manufacturer, support for it would have been everywhere, because it is by far the best sound format even now after 12 years. Lossless and very space-efficient.

                                                                         

                                                                        The same goes for Matroska's ability to store H.264 content. Saves up to 40-60% space with lossless settings compared to Blu-ray (M2TS).

                                                                         

                                                                        Of course it would be great if H.264 would become the video standard. But as long as software and hardware developers are forced to pay those excesive license fees for it, that's just not going to happen. MPEG-LA has already made billions on H.264, after it was made the world's new digital TV standard. On that background it is absolutely sickening that even non-commerical developers still need to pay the license fee.

                                                                         

                                                                        Thanks for the information about Adobe's mobile HTML5 commitment... Of course this does not mean that they are going to support WebM or any other open video standards. It only means that they don't want to fight with Apple, who have been demonizing Flash for some bizarre reason.

                                                                        • 113. Re: Adobe Premiere Pro CS3 MKV support?
                                                                          Todd_Kopriva Level 8

                                                                          I just double-checked with the guy who processes all of the feature requests for Premiere Pro, and he says that he has seen very few requests for Premiere Pro to natively import or export MKV files. I'm the person who processes the feature requests for After Effects, and I have also seen very few requests for this.

                                                                           

                                                                          We tend to do what will satisfy the greatest number of our customers, and this hasn't come close to rising to that level of demand for us.

                                                                           

                                                                          I encourage you to add your vote by submitting a feature request.

                                                                          • 114. Re: Adobe Premiere Pro CS3 MKV support?
                                                                            the_wine_snob Level 9

                                                                            Todd,

                                                                             

                                                                            Thank you for the input. My contention all along is that when the Feature Requests reach critical mass, then resources will be unleashed to implement support.

                                                                             

                                                                            I see it as a bunch of cold hard facts - development resources cost $, and if there is not a market for the development, then Adobe will allocate those funds elsewhere. Capitalism (something that I hold dear) is motivated by sales, or potential sales. As a shareholder in many corporations, I do not want them spending $'s, "joisting at windmills." I want them spending the $ on products that consumers want, and will pay for.

                                                                             

                                                                            Now, has Adobe been ahead of every curve? No way. Have they stepped up often, and had course changes? Yes. One of those was seizing the moment with the FCPX release, and the realization that a new market had just opened up. I do not know if you guys had spent a lot of time with the "Official Adobe Crystal Ball," or maybe the "Official Adobe Ouija Board," but you were right there, even if it was to "pick up the pieces."

                                                                             

                                                                            While I have zero against support for open source formats/CODEC's, I also understand markets, and want Adobe to remain profitable, and also around 10 years from now.

                                                                             

                                                                            As for support of "other" formats/CODEC's, Adobe has collarborated with Nokia, for more cellphone format support, both coming and going. Obviously, they are open to new schemes of delivery, and also ingestion. While that will likely be a feature that I will never use, it seems as though enough have requested it.

                                                                             

                                                                            Your comments are appreciated, as most of us are totally on the outside, looking in, and can only speculate.

                                                                             

                                                                            Hunt

                                                                            • 115. Re: Adobe Premiere Pro CS3 MKV support?
                                                                              the_wine_snob Level 9

                                                                              As for WebM, there was a reference to Adobe's support for it, but I have not had luck finding the link. That is the trouble with an older-guy's memory. I can still recall having read of something, but then, tracking it back down is beyond me. The gray-matter is hardening, and it seems that there is nothing that I can do about that.

                                                                               

                                                                              I also understand a bit of "licensing," as I was first a commercial photographer, and have sold many images as stock. I have zero problem charging others to use the images. Same for "intellectual propery rights." My wife has funded T-Gen, and her hospital owns many rights to various gene findings. However, I do cringe, when a corporation, such as Sony, locks up everything, and charges tons of $ for anyone to do, say BD through a replicator. Still, they won the war, and "to the victor, go the spoils," so I should not be too surprised. The aspect that hurts me (or did hurt, until I retired 11 mos.ago) was that most independent producers were effectively locked out, due to licensing fees, from producing replicated BD's. As I also have had some ethical issues with Sony, in the past, it is hard to be totally objective on that issue.

                                                                               

                                                                              Maybe with enough Feature Requests, other formats/CODEC's WILL be added to the supported list for Adobe products?

                                                                               

                                                                              Hunt

                                                                              • 116. Re: Adobe Premiere Pro CS3 MKV support?
                                                                                Jim_Simon Level 8

                                                                                And Vorbis and FLAC have been superiour sound formats for over 10 years, yet Adobe still refuses to support them officially.

                                                                                 

                                                                                Again, same reason.  Cameras and digital audio devices do not record to those formats.  So they just aren't widely used by professionals.

                                                                                 

                                                                                 

                                                                                Of course it would be great if H.264 would become the video standard

                                                                                 

                                                                                Uh...it pretty much already is, at least on the web.  That's why I'd like Firefox to support it.

                                                                                • 117. Re: Adobe Premiere Pro CS3 MKV support?
                                                                                  EuroSiti Level 1

                                                                                  Bill Hunt wrote:

                                                                                   

                                                                                  As for WebM, there was a reference to Adobe's support for it, but I have not had luck finding the link. That is the trouble with an older-guy's memory. I can still recall having read of something, but then, tracking it back down is beyond me. The gray-matter is hardening, and it seems that there is nothing that I can do about that.

                                                                                  Here is the link to the 'accidental' promise to support the Internet's supposedly 100% free video standard... And you're not really old until you're past 80, Bill.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  Bill Hunt wrote:

                                                                                   

                                                                                  ... However, I do cringe, when a corporation, such as Sony, locks up everything, and charges tons of $ for anyone to do, say BD through a replicator. Still, they won the war, and "to the victor, go the spoils," so I should not be too surprised.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  Well. That's my problem with MPEG-LA. It's basically a far too powerful conglomerate of 'stake'holders (Apple, Sony, Microsoft etc.). They have already been succesful at abusing the ISO standardization system to practically force national governments and others away from open standards saying that open standards (FLAC, Matroska etc.) aren't "sufficiently documented". However, Microsoft were succesful in getting an ISO approval of their far from well-documented alternate Open Document format. Everyone suspected corruption for a very good reason.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  MPEG-LA has turned the MPEG4 ISO standards into a money machine. Any piece of hardware or software that makes use of their codec is forced to pay a substantial and endless amount of money. Patents in the IT industry as well as in the health industry are often abused far beyond all reason, but of course that is more of a legislative problem.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  However, I have noticed that it looks like Apple has hired some Swedish company to steal the Matroska EBML open standard and turn it into a closed Steve Jobs standard for iTunes with all the well-known features from the Matroska container (I will see if I can find the web site again). But of course, Apple as well as Microsoft has always believed in their exclusive right to steal from others.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  ... But I wouldn't be surprised if Adobe quickly starts supporting Apple's new format regardless of user requests. They have just revealed just how scared they are of Apple.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  The big boys are still allowed to dictate IT legislation in most countries due to a complete lack of IT knowledge among politicians and other decisionmakers. The fact that Microsoft and Apple have been succesful in making their own closed and inferior AIFF and WAVE formats the official storage formats for many national archives at the expense of FLAC is alarming to say the least. No IT-skilled archivists understand why FLAC still hasn't become an official audio storage standard.

                                                                                  • 118. Re: Adobe Premiere Pro CS3 MKV support?
                                                                                    Jim_Simon Level 8

                                                                                    No IT-skilled archivists understand why FLAC still hasn't become an official audio storage standard.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Simple.  Because no one uses it.  Same reason the vastly superior DVD-Audio (using 5.1 channel recording and Mastering) never replaced CDs in the recording industry.

                                                                                    • 119. Re: Adobe Premiere Pro CS3 MKV support?
                                                                                      EuroSiti Level 1

                                                                                      Archives as well as other institutions working with storage media solutions use Adobe products.

                                                                                      I am sure that Adobe is already aware of that (because occasionally they send their "hired goons" (yes, believe it or not - Adobe can afford that even these days!) out to check if the archives have paid their Adobe license fees (which they had in the episode I am referring to).

                                                                                       

                                                                                      These days, external hard drives is THE way to store video and audio content. Support on standalone players isn't something that matters. Storage on DVDs and similar size-limited media isn't recommended either. What matters is that you can store your content in the optimal lossless or near lossless format. FLAC is such a format and it has been so for over 10 years. Adobe is of course aware of that.

                                                                                       

                                                                                      Adobe also knows that people would use some of these formats, if the option was available. The fact that WebM support was dropped still indicates that whichever formats Adobe decides to support has nothing to do with public demand. It has much more to do with what their commercial partners want them to support. Public demand is secondary at best if it matters at all. That is why we will NOT see WebM support in any Adobe products. However, we will see the HTML5 features that Apple and other commerical partners like and can make a profit from.