18 Replies Latest reply on Aug 28, 2008 5:34 PM by Jim_Simon

    24p to minidv ?!?

      I have a project that was shot on 24PA and finalized and rendered out from AE as 23.976...

      Is there any way to export my 24p project to mini dv from cs3 prem? Do i have to convert my footage to ntsc 29.97? Is there an easy way of doing this? DO i need a 3rd party program?

      any ideas?
        • 1. Re: 24p to minidv ?!?
          Jim_Simon Level 8
          If the AE export has the proper Advanced pulldown (which can be tricky if multiple clips were used in the Comp), then you might be able to just bring that exported file into a Premiere 24p project and export to tape normally. (Be sure to go into Playback settings and choose the 2:3:3:2 method instead of Repeat Frame.)

          That's the software side of things. Not sure how it will work on the camera side. (Do you set it for normal 30i mode, as the pulldown is already there, or do you set it again for 24pA mode? I don't know.)
          • 2. Re: 24p to minidv ?!?
            Dan Isaacs Level 2
            Though I've not tried it, I believe you can output directly to DV tape from the Premiere timeline. There is an option in the Project Settings for 24p conversion: You have the choice between Repeat Frame or 2:3:3:2 (24pa) pulldown.

            Neither of these types of conversions "look" very good, IMO, but they are reversible.

            Out of curiosity, why are you putting this back to DV? It it just for archiving or do you need to submit it to someone in DV format?
            • 3. Re: 24p to minidv ?!?
              Level 1
              i dont have the AE project file. All i have is the master uncompressed avi file thats @ 23.976. CAn i bring it into AE and try a different export?

              Sucks.... the person i need to send this to is requesting a mini dv format.
              • 4. Re: 24p to minidv ?!?
                Jim_Simon Level 8
                An Uncompressed out from AE probably won't have any pulldown applied. That could complicate things.

                How'd you get the export if you don't have the original media and AE project?
                • 5. Re: 24p to minidv ?!?
                  Dan Isaacs Level 2
                  You can, of course, use AviSynth to perform any kind of pulldown or framerate conversion you like.

                  In my dv60i2film pacakge, there are two functions: dv24p_do32(), which adds 3:2 pulldown and dv24p_do24pa(), which adds 2:3:3:2 pulldown.

                  Example script (save it as "pulldown.avs"):

                  dv24p_do32("x:/path_to/24p.avi")

                  Open "pulldown.avs" in VirtualDub and save it as an AVI. Output will be 29.97 fps with 2:3 pulldown applied. The fact that it's an uncompressed master is all the better.
                  • 6. Re: 24p to minidv ?!?
                    Level 1
                    The export file was copied onto my system from a portable HD drive...

                    how does this dv60i2film pacakge work?

                    Open "pulldown.avs" in VirtualDub uh? dv24p_do32("x:/path_to/24p.avi") what?

                    english please :)
                    • 7. Re: 24p to minidv ?!?
                      Dan Isaacs Level 2
                      Sorry, ill -- I guess you have not been following this thread :)

                      Here's (hopefully) a clearer description of the process:

                      Here's a brief synopsis:
                      1.) Download and install AviSynth 2.5.7
                      2.) Download my dv60i2film package -- and unzip it into your AviSynth plugins folder
                      3.) Download and install VirtualDub
                      4.) Copy and paste this in Notepad...

                      dv24p_do32("d:/path_to/24p.avi")


                      ... replacing "d:/path_to/24p.avi" with the actual drive letter, path and filename of your 24p avi file. Save this file from notepad as "pulldown.avs"

                      5.) Open "pulldown.avs" in VirtualDub. Choose the type of compession you want to use from the Video/Compression menu (or choose uncompressed). Then choose "File/Save as AVI" and write it out to a new file.
                      6.) The result will be a 29.97i .avi file (24p with 3:2 pulldown applied). Bring this into Premiere and write it to tape.

                      Alternatively, if you want to use 2:3:3:2 pulldown (24PA), use this script template instead of the one above:
                      dv24p_do24pa("d:/path_to/24p.avi")
                      • 8. Re: 24p to minidv ?!?
                        Jim_Simon Level 8
                        >The export file was copied onto my system from a portable HD drive...

                        I'd convince the other guy to accept the same. Let him work with the original rather than a compromised DV version.
                        • 9. Re: 24p to minidv ?!?
                          Level 1
                          Ya already tried... Hard to change clients minds when they are paying my bills.

                          Besides from that virtual dub stuff. Is there any other way? magic bullet maybe?

                          I actually tried recording my 24p onto minidv by forcing premier to export to minidv. It actaully went across fine to tape and playback test was fine. But, no audio! eh.
                          • 10. Re: 24p to minidv ?!?
                            Jim_Simon Level 8
                            Can you export out a DV version and send that to him on hard drive? Convince the client the superiority of this method by telling him there'll be no capture time or chance of drop-outs on tape.

                            And if the program is short enough, you can probably just send the DV file on a DVD data disk.
                            • 11. Re: 24p to minidv ?!?
                              Dan Isaacs Level 2
                              Ill -- may I ask what you client is planning to do with the DV tape you're providing him with?
                              • 12. Re: 24p to minidv ?!?
                                Level 1
                                The project is actually only 4mins long. The uncompress file is about 5gigs big-ish.

                                They are requesting for minidv because all the other jobs have been completed and handed over in the same format. Someone else from there department is making the "request" for a minidv output. So my client is the middle man for someone else higher up in the food chain! eh! I hate big companies!!! Its for LVMH.

                                I dunno why everything has to be on mini dv. Alot of there stuff is filmed in HD and is then down converted to SD for minidv output. Its lame ****!

                                For some reason this project was filmed @ 24PA, exported and finalized uncompress as 23.976. I dont have the original AE work files only this huge avi file.

                                Is my only option this VirtualDub 24p conversion stuff?
                                • 13. Re: 24p to minidv ?!?
                                  Dan Isaacs Level 2
                                  The reason I ask is that I'm trying to determine if it would be best to use 3:2 or 2:3:3:2 pulldown on your clip.

                                  If the final output is going to be 60i, then 3:2 is the way to go. However, if they are looking to edit in 24pa and then output to 24p (to DVD, for example) then it is probably wiser to go to 2:3:3:2, as it is reversible -- and the original 24p content can be recovered.

                                  > Is my only option this VirtualDub 24p conversion stuff?

                                  I don't know of anything else, but I'm certain it does exist. Mine is free, however, and it will take very little time to convert.
                                  • 14. Re: 24p to minidv ?!?
                                    Level 1
                                    I tried the VirtualDub stuff... The new output uncompress avi file become 7gigs big compared to the original 5gig file. I wonder why?!? Quality looked the same. Going to try to export my new file to minidv. I hope it works!
                                    • 15. Re: 24p to minidv ?!?
                                      Dan Isaacs Level 2
                                      > The new output uncompress avi file become 7gigs big compared to the original 5gig file.

                                      30 fps vs. 24 fps?
                                      • 16. Re: 24p to minidv ?!?
                                        Level 1
                                        yes.. 29.97 vs 24p. Can a 29.97 file be bigger then a 24p file uncompressed?

                                        Quick side question. Can this virualDub stuff convert the opposite way? 29.97 footage into 24p progressive? I have some HD 60i footage that i need to match with my 24p.
                                        • 17. Re: 24p to minidv ?!?
                                          Dan Isaacs Level 2
                                          > 29.97 footage into 24p progressive?

                                          http://www.adobeforums.com/webx/.59b60633
                                          • 18. Re: 24p to minidv ?!?
                                            Jim_Simon Level 8
                                            >Can a 29.97 file be bigger then a 24p file uncompressed?

                                            Can it be? It will be. Simple math. More frames equals a bigger file, all else being equal.