11 Replies Latest reply on May 10, 2009 1:06 PM by the_wine_snob

    Making Audio sound like it's coming from behind you...

    Level 1
      Hi, might anyone know of a technique to make the audio sound like it's coming from behind you?
      Thank you
        • 2. Re: Making Audio sound like it's coming from behind you...
          the_wine_snob Level 9
          Some things to consider, if you do go the DD 5.1 Surround Sound route:

          1.) the DD 5.1 encoder in Premiere is 3, IIRC, trial exports. It costs about US$250 to purchase for unlimited use. Also, if you DO purchase it, do so from within Premiere Pro, as you will get a better deal, than going directly to the Minnetonka Audio SurCode Web site.

          2.) you will need to author you Project via a program that accepts DD 5.1 (AC3) Audio. I use Encore for this. I also Export from PP (with the SurCode plug-in) as elemental streams: DV-AVI (Video only) and AC3 (Audio only)

          3.) your playback system will need to be able to reproduce DD 5.1 SS.

          In PP, you can position your sound source anywhere in the field via the Audio Mixer. However, you will need the SurCode plug-in to Export it that way. Otherwise, it will be mixed-down to stereo and the spatial aspects will be lost. Last thing to remember is that you need to set your Sequences up with a 5.1 Master. If you have already have edited in a stereo Sequence, you will need to create a new Sequence with 5.1 Master, then Copy/Paste all of your edits into the new Sequence.

          Hunt
          • 3. Re: Making Audio sound like it's coming from behind you...
            Level 1
            I appreciate the help. Thanks!
            • 4. Re: Making Audio sound like it's coming from behind you...
              Ian Samson Level 1

              Well guys, I have a similar issue. I have 5.1 speakers plugged into the mainboard of the PC using onboard sound. While I can hear "surround sound" while recording, on playback using AA3.0.1 it defaults to left and right speakers only. How do I make it play through all speakers, left rear, left front, center, right front, right rear and sub-woofer simultaneously? AA1 does this with 4.1 speakers on a Creative SoundBlaster Live 24-bit card, but I need similar sound from the onboard Gigabyte motherboard sound system. I have already downloaded and installed the most recent patches and drivers for the onboard sound, but AA3 does not use them. Why?

               

              Ian Samson

              • 5. Re: Making Audio sound like it's coming from behind you...
                Eddie Lotter Level 4

                You need to post in the AA forum, not the PPro forum.

                 

                Cheers
                Eddie

                • 6. Re: Making Audio sound like it's coming from behind you...
                  Ian Samson Level 1

                  Well, Eddie, tell that ******* who e-mailed me about Adobe Reader Upgrade Query! to do the same thing, then I would not need to answer you like this. I am not subscribed to PPro but to Audition 3. I do not know what PPro is.

                   

                  I think Adobe has a new webmaster messing around with the settings. Typical, why can't they leave things alone when they work - if they're not broken, DON'T FIX.

                   

                  [Offensive and irrelevant comment removed by forum host]

                   

                  Cheers.

                  Ian

                  • 7. Re: Making Audio sound like it's coming from behind you...
                    Ian Samson Level 1
                    Some things to consider, if you do go the DD 5.1 Surround Sound route:

                    1.) the DD 5.1 encoder in Premiere is 3, IIRC, trial exports. It costs about US$250 to purchase for unlimited use. Also, if you DO purchase it, do so from within Premiere Pro, as you will get a better deal, than going directly to the Minnetonka Audio SurCode Web site.
                    I am not buying anything. I have Adobe Audition 3.0.1 and my motherboard is a Gigabyte (whatever) with 2 Intel DuoCore2 processors, 8GB RAM, 1TB HDD, and Nero Wave Editing software too, along with Audacity etc. The Realtek Azalea sound-on-board is really crappy and I need an insert card for my sound. I am  prepared to buy another sound card for the computer, but from what you are asking in this message, is that I pay up US$250 for something I do not know? What is DD in DD 5.1? I know that SS is surround sound. What is the DD? All I am trying to achieve is the same as I had in 4.1 setup that when AA3 plays back the tracks, I can hear the music from all 5.1 speakers and not just one or two or three, but all 5 and the sub-woofer.

                     

                    2.) you will need to author your Project via a program that accepts DD 5.1 (AC3) Audio. I use Encore for this. I also Export from PP (with the SurCode plug-in) as elemental streams: DV-AVI (Video only) and AC3 (Audio only)

                    Sorry guys, this techno-speak is not my experience. I have no idea what anyone is talking about.

                     

                     

                    3.) your playback system will need to be able to reproduce DD 5.1 SS.
                    In PP, you can position your sound source anywhere in the field via the Audio Mixer. However, you will need the SurCode plug-in to Export it that way. Otherwise, it will be mixed-down to stereo and the spatial aspects will be lost. Last thing to remember is that you need to set your Sequences up with a 5.1 Master. If you have already have edited in a stereo Sequence, you will need to create a new Sequence with 5.1 Master, then Copy/Paste all of your edits into the new Sequence.

                     

                    Hunt

                    • 8. Re: Making Audio sound like it's coming from behind you...
                      the_wine_snob Level 9

                      Because of the quoting scheme, I'm not sure if you're asking, but will try to fill in any blanks that I might have left out.

                       

                      First the terms:

                       

                      DD 5.1 SS - Dolby Digital (Labs) 5.1 Surround Sound. This is a licensed technology by Dolby Digital Labs

                      AC3 - This is a file format for Dolby Digital Audio. It can be stereo, or 5.1 SS. It is one of two in-spec. Audio formats for DVD - PCM/WAV being the other.

                      SurCode - this is the fully licensed Dolby Digital encoder. It can be a plug-in for Premiere, or a stand-alone version. I use the plug-in

                      Minnetonka - writes and licenses the SurCode encoder

                       

                      Minnetonka has a licensing deal with Adobe. Premiere users get 3 trial runs of the SurCode plug-in. After that, one must purchase the SurCode plug-in to do DD 5.1 SS encoding. There are two ways to purchase: buy from Minnetonka, or buy from within Premiere. In the past, the savings were ~US$50 by doing the latter. Minnetonka has done some "sales," but most have been for "additional" copies for registered users. I bought 2x at ~US$250 because I use them all of the time, and wanted a copy for each editing machine. The most recent "sale" was for a second license at ~US$225, which is very close to the cost of licensing that Minnetonka pays Dolby Labs.

                       

                      Other softare can do 5.1 editing. The trick comes with getting those files into Encore, or another authoring program, for inclusion on a DVD as DD 5.1 SS. A few programs "hack" the DD CODEC, so you cannot use the DD 5.1 logo, as it is not approved. Some will just not Export as DVD-video spec. AC3 files. Some will only Export as .WMA files (Windows Media with Surround Sound), but most authoring programs choke with these, or you loose the SS aspect.

                       

                      Encore accepts fully compliant AC3's (DD 5.1 SS), but in "pass-through" mode. It writes these perfectly to a DVD, but you cannot monitor them in DD 5.1 SS, only stereo. Still, all monitoring should be done in PrPro anyway.

                       

                      Another Surround Sound method is to bring in a WMA file (splits into six discreet Audio files for each channel) to Audition and adjust, as needed. From there, Export as six discreet .WAV files and use the Minnetonka DTS encoder (about another US$250) to encode DTS files. Note: these can ONLY be "optional" Audio files in DVD-video. You must have PCM/WAV stereo, or AC3 (stereo, or DD 5.1 SS) as your main Audio. The selection of the DTS track is via Menu, where the user decides on the format. Remember, DTS is only "optional," and cannot be the main Audio source in DVD-video.

                       

                      Hope that this clears things up a bit. Sorry for the jargon.

                       

                      Hunt

                      • 9. Re: Making Audio sound like it's coming from behind you...
                        the_wine_snob Level 9

                        Ian,

                         

                        I have a similar on-board system to yours. I've got a Realtek 5.1 chip on the MoBo, but it feeds through the Creative SB 24-bit Live drivers. Two sets of drivers to update.

                         

                        I had some issues with other programs, and found that the installation of ASIO4All did the trick. It has worked for many on the Audition forum, as well. Just remember that you will need to set it in EVERY Audio program, that you have.

                         

                        Good luck,

                         

                        Hunt

                        • 10. Re: Making Audio sound like it's coming from behind you...
                          Ian Samson Level 1

                          Hunt, thank you for your clear response. The "quoting scheme" is pure

                          thoroughbred UK English as taught to me at school. South Africa never

                          adopted the USA approach where the mis-use of quoting schemes has raised

                          eyebrows in the academic (pedantic) sectors as they are totally foreign to

                          our way of doing things and what we South Africans consider is "correct"

                          English. But I will not get into that now ...

                           

                          2009/5/10 the_wine_snob <forums@adobe.com>

                           

                          Because of the quoting scheme, I'm not sure if you're asking, but will try

                          to fill in any blanks that I might have left.

                          >

                          First the terms:

                          >

                          DD 5.1 SS - Dolby Digital (Labs) 5.1 Surround Sound. This is a licensed

                          technology by http://www.dolby.com/index.html

                          AC3 <http://www.dolby.com/index.html*%0AAC3> - This is a file format for

                          Dolby Digital Audio. It can be stereo, or 5.1 SS. It is one of two in-spec.

                          Audio formats for DVD - PCM/WAV being the other.

                          http://www.minnetonkaaudio.com/products/surcode09.html - this is the

                          fully licensed Dolby Digital encoder. It can be a plug-in for Premiere, or a

                          stand-alone version. I use the plug-in

                          http://www.minnetonkaaudio.com/ - writes and licenses the SurCode

                          encoder

                          >

                          Minnetonka has a licensing deal with Adobe. Premiere users get 3 trial runs

                          of the SurCode plug-in. After that, one must purchase the SurCode plug-in to

                          do DD 5.1 SS encoding. There are two ways to purchase: buy from Minnetonka,

                          or buy from within Premiere. In the past, the savings were ~US$50 by doing

                          the latter. Minnetonka has done some "sales," but most have been for

                          "additional" copies for registered users. I bought 2x at ~US$250 because I

                          use them all of the time, and wanted a copy for each editing machine. The

                          most recent "sale" was for a second license at ~US$225, which is very close

                          to the cost of licensing that Minnetonka pays Dolby Labs.

                          >

                          Other softare can do 5.1 editing. The trick comes with getting those files

                          into Encore, or another authoring program, for inclusion on a DVD as DD 5.1

                          SS. A few programs "hack" the DD CODEC, so you cannot use the DD 5.1 logo,

                          as it is not approved. Some will just not Export as DVD-video spec. AC3

                          files. Some will only Export as .WMA files (Windows Media with Surround

                          Sound), but most authoring programs choke with these, or you loose the SS

                          aspect.

                           

                           

                          AA3 boasts its ability with surround sound and encoding into a multiplicity

                          of formats. What about MP3 formats? I import the mixdown .wav into Audacity

                          and write the LAME-MP3 encoder to file. This version of MP3 plays on almost

                          every MP3 system known to me. FREE!

                           

                          >

                          Encore accepts fully compliant AC3's (DD 5.1 SS), but in "pass-through"

                          mode. It writes these perfectly to a DVD, but you cannot monitor them in DD

                          5.1 SS, only stereo. Still, all monitoring should be done in PrPro anyway.

                          >

                          Another Surround Sound method is to bring in a WMA file (splits into six

                          discreet Audio files for each channel) to Audition and adjust, as needed.

                          From there, Export as six discreet .WAV files and use the *

                          http://www.minnetonkaaudio.com/products/surcode12.html* encoder (about

                          another US$250) to encode DTS files. Note: these can ONLY be "optional"

                          Audio files in DVD-video. You must have PCM/WAV stereo, or AC3 (stereo, or

                          DD 5.1 SS) as your main Audio. The selection of the DTS track is via Menu,

                          where the user decides on the format. Remember, DTS is only "optional," and

                          cannot be the main Audio source in DVD-video.

                           

                           

                          Another aspect to remember is that South Africa is on PAL television and not

                          DTS (whatever DTS stands for) or any other. I have Digital Satellite

                          Television from MultiChoice (Africa) (Pty) Ltd., I think we are speaking at

                          cross purposes. I am not in the DVD-video industry. I am in the Audition

                          3.0.1 industry transferring audio from shellac and vinyl sources to CD.

                           

                          Well, won't Adobe Audition 3.0.1 do the above? It has "MixDown" and that is

                          from 6 individual sound tracks mixed back to conventional stereo for playing

                          on any CD player. This is my hobby, I am not into DVD music yet, although I

                          have some clients who would love to have their entire audio collection

                          transferred to DVD, but that's not my job here. I simply do analog to

                          digital using Adobe Audition 3.0.1 which I am licensed to do and have paid

                          over US$299 for. I am still learning Adobe Audition 3.0.1 beause I used 1.0

                          for 5 years while teaching myself how this industry operates.

                           

                          I have been in contact with Des Lindberg who did get Gallo Africa to

                          recommend me to one client who happened to ask them if anyone in

                          Johannesburg did vinyl to CD coversions. Reader's Digest said I have their

                          go-ahead, but what I am particularly concentrating on right now is these

                          mono LPs of famous American marches transferred from their vinyl origins,

                          digitized, separated into 6 channels, mixing, mastering, ensuring volumes in

                          each of the 6 speakers thrills my ears with my own version of digital sound,

                          and I will worry about MP4 licensing when that day comes.

                           

                           

                           

                          >

                          Hope that this clears things up a bit. Sorry for the jargon.

                           

                          Yeah, sure, no problem, Hunt, as long as we understand each other. I cannot

                          afford to pay Dolby US$250 license fees because of the exchange rate from

                          South African Rand into US Dollars, it's prohibitively expensive for me. I

                          am a pensioner, and this audio work is a hobby only. I am not treading on

                          any toes, nor am I putting myself in any position to be fined by the audio

                          industry for not playing ball.

                           

                          So far, i have had no comebacks to the audio work I am doing in this

                          country, and I have clients waiting patiently for me to get back to work. It

                          is long and often tedious, the rewards are minimal except for a happy

                          customer, as it is their music they are getting back from me. The music they

                          listened to for many years but cannot because technology has changed.

                           

                          Now we need the Copyright Act to change too. Get your attorneys onto Jacob

                          Zuma's butt and get the Copyright Act changed to keep up with technological

                          developments in the Audio Industry as a global concept, not only locally or

                          per country.

                           

                          Best wishes from this side of the Atlantic POND!

                           

                          Ian

                           

                           

                           

                           

                          >

                          >

                          Hunt

                          >

                          • 11. Re: Making Audio sound like it's coming from behind you...
                            the_wine_snob Level 9

                            Ian,

                             

                            Sorry about my misunderstanding. I thought that your delivery was in DVD-Video. "DTS" is a registered multi-channel (Surround Sound) encoding delivery format. It is optional on both NTSC and PAL.

                             

                            I am not up on multi-channel delivery on CD. I think that the Audition Forum would be the place to ask. Neil Wilkes (does duties in the AA and Encore fora) would be a good resource. He does a great deal of work with DVD-Audio delivery and works in various Surround Sound formats.

                             

                            Wish that I could offer more help on what you are doing.

                             

                            Good luck,

                             

                            Hunt