26 Replies Latest reply on Mar 25, 2009 6:31 AM by Jeff Bellune

    Canon HV20 - no video displayed in capture window

      I have an HV20 and the video doesn't show up in the capture window. Premiere will capture the video just fine, it just won't show the video in the window which makes setting up the logging a pain. Under Premiere 2.0 the capture AND video display worked fine (on the same computer).

      I've tried all different device control and playback setting options and they all behave the same. Under 2.0 video playback was shown when playing and capturing (though during capture the video shown on the PC monitor was a little choppy). With CS3 there is nothing, always a black screen.

      Anyone have an HV20 that is working ok?

      Running with a Quadcore, 2GB RAM, RAID 0 HD for capture, NVidia Gforce 7300 LE.

      Dan
        • 1. Re: Canon HV20 - no video displayed in capture window
          Eddie Lotter Level 4

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          • 2. Re: Canon HV20 - no video displayed in capture window
            Hello Dan - I wrote in the Adobe User-to-user Forum,
            with similar problem, though our system is not based on a Canon HV20,
            Below is copy of our problem as posted in that forum... one other replied without details

            link:-
            http://www.adobeforums.com/webx/.3bc4c121/0

            paul chew - 5:23am Jan 10, 08 PST (#6 of 7)

            No video monitoring during Premier Pro CS3 HD capture:-

            Hi John T Smith
            I noted you mentioned seeing something about no video preview during capture with HD
            We are experiencing this problem, and cannot find a solution from our supplier of the workstations we have (Nimbus)
            Our Sony HD interface card ( i.e. HD input converted to I-Link firewire output) is HFBK-TS1 -
            {video sources to the Sony HD interface, are from two Sony ceiling mounted HD remote controlled cameras (BRC-H700) by optical fibre }

            Our graphics card is a PNY Nvidia Quadra FX1500 PCI-E 256Mb DDR2 dual
            The graphics card does have an S-Video o/p socket, and we've tried connecting a tv monitor to this with no video output during capture, it's merely for displaying normal windows video replay (eg mediaplayer, powerdvd), but not within Premier capture mode.

            Can anyone help?

            {One response}

            Harm Millaard - 6:08am Jan 10, 08 PST (#7 of 7)

            No. There is no preview during HDV capture.
            • 3. Re: Canon HV20 - no video displayed in capture window
              Level 1
              Hello Dan - I wrote in the Adobe User-to-user Forum,
              with similar problem, though our system is not based on a Canon HV20,
              Below is copy of our problem as posted in that forum... one other replied without details

              link:-
              http://www.adobeforums.com/webx/.3bc4c121/0

              paul chew - 5:23am Jan 10, 08 PST (#6 of 7)

              No video monitoring during Premier Pro CS3 HD capture:-

              Hi John T Smith
              I noted you mentioned seeing something about no video preview during capture with HD
              We are experiencing this problem, and cannot find a solution from our supplier of the workstations we have (Nimbus)
              Our Sony HD interface card ( i.e. HD input converted to I-Link firewire output) is HFBK-TS1 -
              {video sources to the Sony HD interface, are from two Sony ceiling mounted HD remote controlled cameras (BRC-H700) by optical fibre }

              Our graphics card is a PNY Nvidia Quadra FX1500 PCI-E 256Mb DDR2 dual
              The graphics card does have an S-Video o/p socket, and we've tried connecting a tv monitor to this with no video output during capture, it's merely for displaying normal windows video replay (eg mediaplayer, powerdvd), but not within Premier capture mode.

              Can anyone help?

              {One response}

              Harm Millaard - 6:08am Jan 10, 08 PST (#7 of 7)

              No. There is no preview during HDV capture.
              • 4. Re: Canon HV20 - no video displayed in capture window
                I have a Canon HV20 and run Adobe Creative Suite 3 Production Premium.

                The following excerpt comes from the Adobe Help Resource Center on the web. You can choose whether to preview DV video in the Capture window during preview and capture. You can also preview HDV footage in the Capture window, on Windows only. However, you cannot preview HDV footage in the Capture window during capture. Instead, the word Capturing will appear in this window during HDV capture. End excerpt..

                I generally use the Timecode set in and out points (under logging tab in capture window) while previewing video for capture. Then I run batch capture. I can view the HDV video in the capture window as long as it is not in record mode. When I press the capture window record button, the video no longer shows and some text message appears while capturing. The video captures fine, it just doesnt show in the capture window while recording. This is normal for capturing HDV in Premier Pro CS3 as far as I know.

                Here is the setup that worked for me. I have a 19 inch LCD TV connected to my Canon HV20 via the RGB connection on the side of the Canon . During capture, the capture window in Premier displays text but the firewire cable connected to my HV20 feeds signal onto the LCD TV and I can view exactly what is recording. Please read the Canon manual for proper camera menu setup..

                Here is one related issue that caused me a little frustration. You will not be able to capture HDV into Premier unless HDV/DV is selected in the HV20 Play/Out Setup2 menu. This menu option on the Canon is not accessible until your firewire cable is disconnected from the camera and camera is in play mode.

                System: Vista 64bit Business, 3.2 GHz Pentium D 940 Dual core, Asus P5WD2 Premium motherboard, 8 gig Crucial DDR-2 667 ram, WD 5000AAKS and WD 7500AAKS SATA hard drives, Dual Asus EAX300 Video cards
                • 5. Re: Canon HV20 - no video displayed in capture window
                  I've just upgraded my cam from a SD miniDV to the HV20 and I'm seeing the same thing on CS3 - preview works fine except during capture, when it's replaced by a bitmap saying something like 'playback on hardware' in various languages.

                  If that's normal, why?? If it's to save CPU cycles, I've got a Q6600 (quad core) practically going idle - why can't I make use of it?

                  Having spent the money on CS3, and considering how long HDV has been out, I would expect this basic functionality to work (or at least have an option for it). If it is a limitation of the current version then I really want to see this in a free update - I would resent being forced to upgrade to CS4 for it.
                  • 6. Re: Canon HV20 - no video displayed in capture window
                    Andy Urtu Level 1
                    _gl Yes, it is normal NOT see video while capturing. You can preview HDV video, but once you start the capture, you can not see it.
                    I have the same camera HV20 and it is great.
                    • 7. Re: Canon HV20 - no video displayed in capture window
                      Level 1
                      Well, I'm glad this is happening to other HV20 users.

                      Now, as for capturing the video, do any of you see any options showing up other than capturing to .mpeg format ?

                      I recorded all my video on my HV20 in HDV mode, and when I capture, it records to .mpeg format, which is NOT good the .avi quality I want for editing afterwards.

                      I'm now wondering if Vegas would do a better job with capture HDV from the Canon HV20 high def camcorder.

                      Dave
                      • 8. Re: Canon HV20 - no video displayed in capture window
                        Jim_Simon Level 8
                        I think most programs would capture the HDV signal exactly the same. Capture is generally a simple file transfer of a digital file from tape to hard drive. Nothing really gets changed.

                        You're right in that the files are not as good for editing as other formats, but that's an inherent limitation of HDV that you can't really change.
                        • 9. Re: Canon HV20 - no video displayed in capture window
                          Level 1
                          David, the HDV format _is_ actually mpeg2, so you are getting the original data as it is on tape (as compressed by the camcorder). The only way to get an even better signal is to bypass the HDV compression by capturing live from the HDMI port (but you need a special capture card for that).
                          • 10. Re: Canon HV20 - no video displayed in capture window
                            Level 1
                            Thanks guys for your help, I appreciate it.... now one more question, and this is an important one for me....

                            Well here goes...., my first tape is a success.

                            It is about 50 mins or so, and about 10 gigs in size.

                            It's in .mpeg format. ( I imported from my camera into the computer using Premiere )

                            Now, I'm assuming, if I take this full piece of footage, crop out
                            a 30 second piece, and then re-save it ( export it ) it won't be as good
                            as the original, is that correct ?

                            So if this is so, how do you save a snippit of footage so that it stays at the highest quality that it can be ?

                            Thanks for your help.

                            Dave.
                            • 11. Re: Canon HV20 - no video displayed in capture window
                              Phil Griffith Level 2
                              I would think that if you save it as same format (mpeg?) then there would be no loss. If you try to save it as different format then you will go thru another compression run and that would result in a loss of quality.
                              • 12. Re: Canon HV20 - no video displayed in capture window
                                Level 1
                                Hi Phil,

                                Hmm, I'm not too sure about that, I know if you take an image format, such as .jpg, and save it, and then re-save it, and re-save it, it will indeed lose quality, *even if you save the jpg at full quality each time * ) and the same for video, even if you saved it in the same format it was in.... I'm not positive about this, but I'm 99% sure it is lossy ( to what extent I don't know, but I'm guessing it is )
                                • 13. Re: Canon HV20 - no video displayed in capture window
                                  Phil Griffith Level 2
                                  ok, after re reading your note. I would agree that if you resave it after editing, then you would be recompressing the file. I was thinking of just making a copy
                                  • 14. Re: Canon HV20 - no video displayed in capture window
                                    Jim_Simon Level 8
                                    Most people are unlikely to notice a single generation loss of quality. If you're unsure, best way to know is to try it and see.
                                    • 15. Re: Canon HV20 - no video displayed in capture window
                                      Correct me if I am wrong: the compression loss is when the picture (in the jpg example) is saved. If the original file opened is NOT closed between progressive changes and the 'originally opened file' is kept open throughout, there is still only a single generation loss.
                                      Degregation happens when the file is saved - closed - reopened - saved - closed - reopened etc etc.
                                      With video: the original HDV mpg file is copied from tape to hard drive, opened in editor, the cuts and edits to the clip(s) are not actually 'saved' to the original mpg file. Just the new output file. When I re-open the editor, make changes to my transitions the successive renders are done to the 'original' mpg file hence no greater loss than the first time I rendered the video.

                                      Is this correct?
                                      • 16. Re: Canon HV20 - no video displayed in capture window
                                        Level 1
                                        Jeff, yep that's it. Premiere is a 'non-destructive' editor, ie. the original files are never changed, so every export has the same quality.
                                        • 17. Re: Canon HV20 - no video displayed in capture window
                                          Andy Urtu Level 1
                                          _gl and Jeff
                                          Non-destructive is not exactly true for HDV. When you make any cuts, even simple ones, on a HDV file (MPEG) you change the GOP structure. Therefore, when exporting to tape, it encodes the timeline to recreate the GOP structure, thus you are now on a 2nd generation. Premiere doe not have "smart rendering" which means it re-encodes the entire timeline.

                                          This is discussed on many other threads.

                                          (If you are using DV, then the export to tape just copies the file back to the camera)

                                          If you go to the cineform website, they show you examples of how the quality goes down after each export.
                                          • 18. Re: Canon HV20 - no video displayed in capture window
                                            Steven L. Gotz Level 5
                                            Exporting is one thing. In reponse to message #14, non-destructive still applies, even with HDV. You continue to modify the original material by reference only. So there is only the one generational loss, and that is when it is finally exported.
                                            • 19. Re: Canon HV20 - no video displayed in capture window
                                              Level 1
                                              ... what Steven said.
                                              • 20. Re: Canon HV20 - no video displayed in capture window
                                                Level 1
                                                Is it true that Pinnacle Studio is non-destructive ? ... I thought I had read this somewhere, but perhaps I'm wrong.

                                                _gl and Jeff
                                                Non-destructive is not exactly true for HDV. When you make any cuts, even simple ones, on a HDV file (MPEG) you change the GOP structure. Therefore, when exporting to tape, it encodes the timeline to recreate the GOP structure, thus you are now on a 2nd generation. Premiere doe not have "smart rendering" which means it re-encodes the entire timeline.

                                                This is discussed on many other threads.

                                                (If you are using DV, then the export to tape just copies the file back to the camera)
                                                • 21. Re: Canon HV20 - no video displayed in capture window
                                                  Level 1
                                                  Dave, you need to read the thread more carefully. We're not talking about exporting, but the fact that you can make as many edits as you want without affecting the _source_ files. That's the definition of a non-destructive editor.
                                                  • 22. Re: Canon HV20 - no video displayed in capture window
                                                    Jim_Simon Level 8
                                                    >thus you are now on a 2nd generation.

                                                    That's just what Steven said - one generational loss. You go from 1 to 2. That applies to ANY source material, even DV. The original file is left intact. Export creates a new one, thus the second generation.

                                                    Granted, with DV it can be simpler as any unaltered clip can be just a direct digital copy. But, add titles, color corrections, effects and transitions, and you're creating that second generation upon export.
                                                    • 23. Re: Canon HV20 - no video displayed in capture window
                                                      Greetings. When I start a new project in premiere cs3, which Load Preset and General Settings do I need to select for capturing my HDV from Canon HV20? I have tried adjusting settings many times but still get a jitter in the video. I shot in HDV. Any solutions?
                                                      • 24. Re: Canon HV20 - no video displayed in capture window
                                                        Level 1
                                                        I use HDV, Canon, 'Alternate 1' - 'Standard' works for me too, but when I tried batch capturing it didn't work (might have been a one-off).

                                                        If Premiere isn't showing that you're dropping frames, then the capture is probably OK. The jitter might be playback related. Does it play OK in Draft quality?

                                                        If yes, your system (CPU and/or graphics card) aren't fast enough to show full-res HDV in real-time.
                                                        • 25. Re: Canon HV20 - no video displayed in capture window
                                                          My Canon HV20 won't even show up as being connected to my computer.

                                                          The Canon HV20 has four modes. DV standard, DV widescreen, HDV standard & HDV (pf24) The camera only shows up as being connected to my computer when I am using "DV standard" But, I shoot my video's in HDV (pf24)

                                                          I have been told that Adobe Reader somehow cause a problem for the camera. I also have been told that Pinacle would solve my problem. But, I want to be sure before buying anymore software.

                                                          I am using Sony Vegas Movie Studio to capture for editing my movies.

                                                          Anyone?
                                                          • 26. Re: Canon HV20 - no video displayed in capture window
                                                            Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional
                                                            Do you own any Adobe software that has anything to do with editing video? The Sony Vegas forums would be a better place than here for you to figure out how to capture HDV into Vegas.