13 Replies Latest reply on Dec 3, 2008 11:25 AM by Jim_Simon

    Using different tapes and formats: common denominator?

    lanstrad
      Before I start a first production, as a very green *new) user of CS3 (soon upgraded to CS4):

      1. I f I plan to use different tapes (old miniDV standard def) + record new shots and wish to use both, should I shoot in DV mode ? (new camera is Canon HV30 and can do it, and can do HDV as well, 4:3 and 16:9...)

      2. Anyone using miniDV: to recors multiple shots, at multiple dates: can I still use the batch capture option? I tried but as the timecode seems to change and re-record, and sometimes may corrupt... how one can deal with this?...

      3. As I wish to have cues through a dummy soundtrack when I shoot video shots, I am planning to get rid of that sound and import a clean (CD quality) track to the final mount. I just want to make sure I can do it with Premiere Pro, and is there anything I must know from the start *before* shooting?

      Thanks,
      Rob
        • 1. Re: Using different tapes and formats: common denominator?
          Harm Millaard Level 7
          1. Yes
          2. Yes, but scene detect may be easier
          3. Yes
          • 2. Re: Using different tapes and formats: common denominator?
            Jim_Simon Level 8
            >as the timecode seems to change and re-record, and sometimes may corrupt

            Never reuse a tape (or continue with one). Once you take it out of the camera, that's it. Start again with a new one. If you're not done shooting with the current tape, then leave it in until you are.
            • 3. Re: Using different tapes and formats: common denominator?
              SFL46 Level 3
              A less wasteful option is to rewind about 10 seconds past the end of the previous clip before the tape was removed from the camera. If the LCD display on the camera is showing a valid time code, that is other than "00.00.00;00" or "--.--.--;--" when you press record (shoot) the camera will continue with the previous timecode and you will not have a timecode break.

              If you haven't removed the tape from the camera, but perhaps rewound it for preview, the camera's END SEARCH should work.

              The bottom line--unless you are at the very start of the tape, never press record unless a valid timecode other than zero is displayed and you'll never have a timecode break.
              • 4. Re: Using different tapes and formats: common denominator?
                Matt Petersen Level 3
                Rob,

                1) You have basically 3 options: a) record in DV mode b) record HDV and downscale it in a DV project or c) record HDV but then play it out as DV from the HV30. I've been experimenting with 'c' lately as I can easily incorporate the footage from the HV20/30's (or XLH1's) in a DV project but I have a higher-res version on the tape if I then want to incorporate that footage in a HDV project later. Handy.

                2) The ideal option is to stripe your tapes (i.e put it in the camera with the lens cap on and record for the entire length of the tape). this lays down continuous timecode that will be unbroken when the actual vision is recorded to the tape. breaks in recording won't matter because the timecode is already there.

                3) No problem. PP allows you to dump audio from any video track. BTW, if you're lip-syncing to a master track (say, for a film-clip), just make sure that you have that master up-front for your talent. A couple of different speeds might be handy if you're contemplating using time remapping (aka slo mo, fast mo) in your final piece.

                good luck.

                MP
                • 5. Re: Using different tapes and formats: common denominator?
                  Jim_Simon Level 8
                  >The ideal option is to stripe your tapes

                  I disagree. It's a waste of time and can actually cause issues because you are essentially reusing a tape, something better not done.
                  • 6. Re: Using different tapes and formats: common denominator?
                    Harm Millaard Level 7
                    > The ideal option is to stripe your tapes

                    This is an approach often used in the previous century in the analog era. I agree with Jim, forget about that approach. The tape is very delicate. Striping only causes a second recording and possible tape stretching by rewinding, causing more drop-outs than just using the tape without striping.

                    Why would you try to use a tape twice or even more often? A gallon of gas is more expensive than a tape.
                    • 7. Re: Using different tapes and formats: common denominator?
                      Matt Petersen Level 3
                      Rob, having just googled around on the above disputed topic, I have to say I agree with the guys.

                      Old habits die hard.

                      MP
                      • 8. Re: Using different tapes and formats: common denominator?
                        Jim_Simon Level 8
                        >A gallon of gas is more expensive than a tape.

                        Now if only Panny could see the light regarding their P2 model...
                        • 9. Re: Using different tapes and formats: common denominator?
                          lanstrad Level 1
                          Thanks everyone for your valuable experience and input.

                          Maybe just a comment on the reply from Harm Millaard: I'd agree on not reusing tapes, but gee either you pay the high price for a gallon of gas, or I buy HD mini DV att he wrong place... At $30 for two tapes, I don't find it 'cheap'...

                          Or I felt in a trap by buying HD tapes when I can have 10 for $20-25 at Costco (normal mini DV) ?

                          So btw: what you guys recommend about it?

                          Thanks again,
                          Rob
                          • 10. Re: Using different tapes and formats: common denominator?
                            Harm Millaard Level 7
                            Normal DV tapes work just as good as special HD tapes IMO. Whatever you use, be sure to stick to that type and brand. If you need to change brands, make sure that you do a good head cleaning before using a different brand.
                            • 11. Re: Using different tapes and formats: common denominator?
                              Jim_Simon Level 8
                              >At $30 for two tapes, I don't find it 'cheap'.

                              Holy crap, Batman! You are definitely buying at the wrong place. I can get a 10 pack of Master Quality tapes for that price from B&H. (Panasonic to match my camera, of course.)
                              • 12. Re: Using different tapes and formats: common denominator?
                                lanstrad Level 1
                                Anyone to recommend a brand of tapes to stick with for the Canon HV30?

                                Also, back to Premiere I need to ask something more: as I take the advice to shoot a few seconds before, then a few seconds after with the miniDV, can I simply transfer the entire shot to Premiere for future editing (cropping of course) ? Do I make my life much more complicated? (Basic idea is that I wish to get rid of the camera asap in the entire process - and as I shoot, transfer, test, experiment, shoot, transfer, test, shoot.... I wish to be able to *see* what I did in Premiere and make sure I won't forget shots (even though I am following a storyboard...)

                                (Can I compare easiness to work with a video shot with what I do in audio or MIDI works : splicing audio in softwares such as Adobe Audition or Pro Tools or anything like that? )

                                Just for info: I was confirmed today I am entitled for CS4 (will get it in about 10 days); I mentin this, if this can call for a different reply.

                                Thanks again guys,

                                Rob
                                • 13. Re: Using different tapes and formats: common denominator?
                                  Jim_Simon Level 8
                                  >can I simply transfer the entire shot to Premiere for future editing

                                  It's not only possible, but recommended practice. Just capture the whole tape once you're done shooting using Scene Detect. Then put that tape on a shelf and start a new one.